Don Pyke: The Next Blight or Neil Craig?

[Sanders]

yes we were on a 10 game winning streak.

I remember it well and we slowing down massively, squeaking by against the good teams and all the talk was about whether we'd been worked out and would our game plan be able to work in finals

And we all know the answer to that

 

[Rear Admiral]

Pykey, now it is the off season, you have the opportunity to implement some change that you didn't have the time or opportunity to do last year. Which path do you choose?

What would Blight do:
- Thommo: please retire
- Mackay: your AFL days at the AFC are over, either seek a trade or play SANFL
- Douglas: you're playing SANFL until you demonstrate to me you are worthy of regular afl level performances again
- Lyons: thanks for your hard work this year but you'll never be more than a fourth string mid so we're cashing you in while you have currency
- CEY: as per Lyons but fifth string
- Milera, Knight, Menzel, Hampton: you're all playing seniors until you demonstrate to me that you won't make it
- B Crouch: extract the digit this preseason. I didn't see you get one possession in space this year which tells me you're not working hard enough off the ball. Heck, even your brother the elite extractor gets uncontested touches around the ground
- Campo: goodbye
- Doc Clarke: goodbye

What would Craig do:
- none of the above, or maybe just items four and five because they're not that tough
- trust the system

Very good indeed. Well put. Especially:

"Milera, Knight, Menzel, Hampton: you're all playing seniors until you demonstrate to me that you won't make it"

 

[Rear Admiral]

It remains to be seen if Pyke was part of the problem or overruled. If he was overrruled then the cull has to start in the coaching box with his assistants.

This is what I'm querying. In terms of list management, I'm thinking he's been overruled. And given a script from the Crows PR team to read to the media.

 

[Rear Admiral]

I'd like to see him be honest with the fan base about it as well. One thing I really liked about Walsh is despite his dislike of media engagements he was really honest with the fans about what he was doing and why.

Need to see Pyke stop hiding behind the little soundbites given to him by the PR team and actually have an honest conversation with fans about what his vision for the future is.

I spoke about it in the good bad and ugly thread. But my view is that Walsh was bought in with a mandate for change that no-one was allowed to get in the way of. After his passing the good old boys set about undoing his work.

Now one of two things are occuring, either Pyke doesn't see the need for cultural change (huge red flags if this is the case), or he does but doesn't have the mandate like Walsh did and is being overruled.

He seems to be a steady as she goes coach. We have a plan, let's implement it and if it isn't working then try harder. That's OK to a point but like football teams, a coach needs to have a 2nd gear too.

The other problem is selection, selection, selection. He keeps picking cooked or out of form veterans over and over again. And taking injured players into finals is and always has been a disaster as we re-learnt last night. Either he doesn't get it or he's being rolled by the Campo/Noble faction, both of which are a major concern.

One season does not a failure make, but Pyke has the makings of a Neil Craig given his pigheadedness to address failings and his continual selection of underperforming regulars.

I'm hoping 2016 was the proving ground and the offseason will see a ruthless approach towards list management. Far from holding my breath though.

Don pyke is his own man and doesn't strike me as being as stubborn as Craig but he must be braver at selection next year. He does seem risk averse but we need a full offseason and next year to truly assess. I hope he learnt to take more risks when he reflects on this year.

I'm with these comments here.
Pyke may very well be like some of our previous coaches, or not at all. But what it really boils down to for me is whether or not the team selection was his call....or he was being overruled. While I cannot offer iron clad proof, I'm leaning more toward the latter than the former. If we make some major list changes, then I'll back him in....for now. But if we just ever-so-slightly tweak the list (i.e. don't retire/trade our veterans), then we're in trouble. Big trouble.
But overall, it's just too early to make a call on how good or bad he is. He needs time, and no external meddling re: player selection (if that indeed was the case).

 

[DD#23]

if Pyke was truly being "overruled" at selection we're ****ed anyway.

if that was actually allowed to stand and nobody from above told our head of football to **** off and count the beans and let the coach worry about game day we may as well pack up, we're not going anywhere.

I'd really like to be able to hang it all on Noble but a defective club culture would be responsible for empowering him in such a way.

Fages said from day one it's about putting the right bums in the right seats and I'm about ready to go Dr Evil on it and flip a host of names into the fire.

 

[Interloperer]

2006 We were hit by injuries

And a West Coast team that drove a wedge into a slight strategic kink, turning it into a giant hole through which other teams followed

 

[Southerntakeover]

I don't believe the overruled narrative.

What happened though is entirely consistent with what's happened in the past, and the vast majority of this board has no place complaining about it because there were precious few dissenting voices throughout the year. A few wins against non contenders and a blown game against Hawthorn (that actually cost us our premiership chances), and our fans were flapping their hands around in excitement lecturing me about how things had really really truly changed this time.

At some point early in the year the club declared to itself that it was a premiership contender that would hang with the big boys, and like we always do when we form that mind set from that point on we almost entirely abandoned any idea of playing anything other than 'the team that gives us the best chance', which is read to mean 'the oldest team'. It's almost unbelievable that we thought Milera should be prioritised in the early half of the season then wasnt of AFL standard ever again, but that's our club. You could point to others.

In the end, being the AFC, we blew both in the most embarassing way possible. We dropped any chance at the cup in round 23, and ended up with a plodding finals performance which demonstrated no real improvement on last year. We were out of both semi finals by quarter time.

In order to achieve that reward, we again sacrificed long term success.

At some point we need to choose something other than adopting this incredibly conservative philosophy we adopt whenever we decide that we're (erroneously) premiership contenders.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I'd be quite happy if we go overboard on change and botch the third leg of our premiership hattrick.

But thats not the point, even though we didn't win a premiership this year it's too easy to chuck the baby out with the bath water and undertake all these list changes like trading Brouch or a Hartigan for example. The key is being able to either create a whole new dimension of game plan and being able to replace and improve on some of the key attributes those players brought.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I don't think for a second that Pyke was overruled at selection. I do think he's very methodical in the way he goes about things. Fools rush in. He hasn't made knee jerk changes, left field selections or punted existing senior players (VB and Henderson aside).

He's now seen all aspects of our club up close - preseason, minor round, major round. Seen that a number of our players are good against medium and lower ranked opposition but get found out against the top rung. He seems very patient - makes evidence-based decisions rather than impulsive gut-feel decisions.

One of the reasons we've refused to make tough changes in the past as there has been too much emotion; too close to the senior players, blinded by loyalty, slavish devotion to the pecking order. I feel that Pyke is more likely to be cold and clinical.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

But thats not the point, even though we didn't win a premiership this year it's too easy to chuck the baby out with the bath water and undertake all these list changes like trading Brouch or a Hartigan for example. The key is being able to either create a whole new dimension of game plan and being able to replace and improve on some of the key attributes those players brought.

It's important to understand that what we've got isn't worth keeping. There's no baby to throw out.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I don't think for a second that Pyke was overruled at selection. I do think he's very methodical in the way he goes about things. Fools rush in. He hasn't made knee jerk changes, left field selections or punted existing senior players (VB and Henderson aside).

He's now seen all aspects of our club up close - preseason, minor round, major round. Seen that a number of our players are good against medium and lower ranked opposition but get found out against the top rung. He seems very patient - makes evidence-based decisions rather than impulsive gut-feel decisions.

One of the reasons we've refused to make tough changes in the past as there has been too much emotion; too close to the senior players, blinded by loyalty, slavish devotion to the pecking order. I feel that Pyke is more likely to be cold and clinical.

Cold and clinically inactive? Yippie.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Cold and clinically inactive? Yippie.

Not the type to reset midseason. Policy on the run etc.

We'd all love a Blight of course, and Pyke isn't cut from that cloth. His 'action' will be between now and Round 1 whereas Blight would come up with a new plan mid-quarter. Feel Pyke will be just as brutal but in his own way.

 

[adelaidecrows]

It's important to understand that what we've got isn't worth keeping. There's no baby to throw out.

Its what we can get in that counts. If we can't get improvement through the trade period we have to go through the draft. I am all for looking to be ruthless and tough to drive us to the next premiership. It just has to be the right calls. I personally feel we are one class midfielder short of a premiership. Our forward line and defence is well sorted. We have new dimensions to add from those stuck in the SANFL this year in Menzel, Wigg, Milera, Hampton, Beech, Kieth, Dear etc, I agree in forcing out Mackay, Douglas and Thompson from the best 22 and looking to create new dimensions to our play. I don't think the answers are too far away.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Not the type to reset midseason. Policy on the run etc.

We'd all love a Blight of course, and Pyke isn't cut from that cloth. His 'action' will be between now and Round 1 whereas Blight would come up with a new plan mid-quarter. Feel Pyke will be just as brutal but in his own way.

I don't buy that. A coach who can't make a decision on a player after 23 games (and seasons of measured performance history) shouldnt be in the gig.

I think it more probable that the decisions were made in the same way that theyve always been made, and were wrong.

 

[Bob Neil]

Not the type to reset midseason. Policy on the run etc.

We'd all love a Blight of course, and Pyke isn't cut from that cloth. His 'action' will be between now and Round 1 whereas Blight would come up with a new plan mid-quarter. Feel Pyke will be just as brutal but in his own way.

Jeez I hope you're right!

 

[adelaidecrows]

Not the type to reset midseason. Policy on the run etc.

We'd all love a Blight of course, and Pyke isn't cut from that cloth. His 'action' will be between now and Round 1 whereas Blight would come up with a new plan mid-quarter. Feel Pyke will be just as brutal but in his own way.

Its too hard in todays football to experiment with something new midseason. specially when the side is winning. He strikes me as a coach who constantly reviews themselves and strives for improvement. I have no proof other then observation. I hope I am right.

 

[Sanders]

Its what we can get in that counts. If we can't get improvement through the trade period we have to go through the draft. I am all for looking to be ruthless and tough to drive us to the next premiership. It just has to be the right calls. I personally feel we are one class midfielder short of a premiership. Our forward line and defence is well sorted. We have new dimensions to add from those stuck in the SANFL this year in Menzel, Wigg, Milera, Hampton, Beech, Kieth, Dear etc, I agree in forcing out Mackay, Douglas and Thompson from the best 22 and looking to create new dimensions to our play. I don't think the answers are too far away.

Arguably it doesn't matter what we get back in

That's the point - doesn't matter which flavour of not good enough you've got.

If you're not good enough, who cares?

 

[craig crowing]

Firstly you have to be blind freddy not to be concerned by the stubborn selections with the selection of teams for finals after the WCE debacle and the poor effort against Powerless the week before.
Now we know Don has been successful in everything done but this was still his first season as head coach and in first season at club he would be influenced by those already there in some way and that why waiting to see what he does with coaches is a indicator.
If he keeps both Clarke and Campo then I will become very concerned as both been there too long especially looking after the area everyone agrees with where we have been caught out on and our weakness.
Obviously the call on Thommo is another concern as he is a liability now but even more important holding up someone playing that very important role in our structure.
Apart from agreeing to take Gore as part of Danger package all other trades etc were done to add to add much needed speed to team but injuries and possibly stubborn selection meant we did not have those players when we needed them in finals.
Now trading and delisting time will also see if we are going to be aggressive about achieving the ultimate.

Closing Statement
It is so frustrating and annoying when we have posters on here that just attack other posters like Adelaide Crow did on good poster in Sloane Ranger on a post he did in calling him out demanding personal facts etc from Sloane Ranger .
Posts that maybe give insight that might be happening in club are important on here and up to as individuals if believe or not and usually history some indicator
Just lowers the value of this board when these personal attacks occur.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Its too hard in todays football to experiment with something new midseason. specially when the side is winning. He strikes me as a coach who constantly reviews themselves and strives for improvement. I have no proof other then observation. I hope I am right.

So, your view is teams pretty much just pick their best 22 at the start of the season, set up the game plans, and run simulators for the next 6 months?

The assertion that we didnt change anything is wrong anyway. We became noticeably more conservative later in the year, and abandoned what appeared to be a focus on development that existed earlier in the year. Milera to siberia for instance.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I don't buy that. A coach who can't make a decision on a player after 23 games (and seasons of measured performance history) shouldnt be in the gig.

I think it more probable that the decisions were made in the same way that theyve always been made, and were wrong.

We'll see. Certainly could be an element of wishful thinking there but I think there's something different about Pyke.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Arguably it doesn't matter what we get back in

That's the point - doesn't matter which flavour of not good enough you've got.

If you're not good enough, who cares?

Really though, let's be honest here. There's a large element of our base that don't think 6th is not good enough.

'Great result in the circumstances, we still love you all!!!!!' - Crows fans.

 

[Southerntakeover]

We'll see. Certainly could be an element of wishful thinking there but I think there's something different about Pyke.

Yeah, just lining up the team in the preseason and changing nothing at all throughout the year would qualify as different alright. You'd sack the guy by about week 5.

Of course, it's not what actually happened, so we don't really need to deal further with that nonsense Carl.

 

[Sanders]

Really though, let's be honest here. There's a large element of our base that don't think 6th is not good enough.

'Great result in the circumstances, we still love you all!!!!!' - Crows fans.

True dat.

We exist to make a decent fist of it, ish.

 

[Southerntakeover]

True dat.

We exist to make a decent fist of it, ish.

Adelaide Football Club: 'A good effort, you just can't expect to win premierships'.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yeah, just lining up the team in the preseason and changing nothing at all throughout the year would qualify as different alright. You'd sack the guy by about week 5.

Of course, it's not what actually happened, so we don't really need to deal further with that nonsense Carl.

The major cracks appeared in the latter part of the season. Going into Round 23 we were in prime position for a top two finish.

What happened from that point onwards is what should tell Pyke what he needs to know about our club.