Don Pyke: The Next Blight or Neil Craig?

[Rory Walkerfield]

But the thread is literally asking if Pyke is the next Craig. Or Blight. And I don't see many people expecting him to set fire to the older end of our list like Blight did.

So is that not the point that people are trying to make?

The point quite clearly is that Blight and Craig were polar opposites and the question is who do you think Pyle will most resemble?

Particularly as there is a sense that a certain Blight style incineration is needed on some levels

Sanders understands what metaphors are, Iron takes the world too literally.

 

[Freomaniac]

I am old enough to see Both eras, so i can make a judgement.

Blight was ruthless and took risks. Keep in mind his confidence was shot to a degree after coaching geelong to 3 grand final losses.

Blight decided to get rid of Andrew Jarman, Tony McGuiness and Chris McDermott. All 3 gave each 6 years and 100 games to the club.

A fair bit of luck went Blights way in 1997. One was that 1997 prelim. Libba thought he got the winnimg goal. It was deemed a Behind. Then Darren Jarman had that set shot from 30 metres out. Jarman slotted it through but you knew the pressure he was under.

Then in 1998, North kicked 8.22.70 in that grand final. Modra didnt play in either of them.

Neil Craig was as good as Blight but was unlucky.

2005-6 he had guided the crows to a couple of prelim finals. I am dead certain had the crows won the 2006 prelim, I was 100% certain the crows would of beaten the swans in the 2006 grand final. It would of most likely been a low scoring game.

I could also make a case the crows could of went far in 2008. Crows were 4th in the final round. All they had to do was hope essendon didnt get pumped too much by the saints.

Essendon laid down and the siants stole the crows spot in the top 4

 

[Southerntakeover]

Hi Don, you're less than 12 months in to your role. Here's a breakdown of all the list management errors you've made.

'Don, you've got a decade to show any identifiable difference in operating philosophy'.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Can we say that in respect of the comparison that's the thread title, the faint defences are damning Pyke. Say what you want about Blight, but he understood that you seize the moment.

We've got people now trying to argue that Pyke didnt need to change anything at all within his entire first year despite it's inevitable failure.

Just watch the same movie as last time, and see if it ends differently.

 

[SydCrow]

You can only coach the cattle you have. Pyke does not have a premiership quality midfield. Craig did and it should have netted him at least one premiership.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

'Don, you've got a decade to show any identifiable difference in operating philosophy'.

Just need a new coach each season until we get a Blight

 

[hippyhippy]

You can only coach the cattle you have. Pyke does not have a premiership quality midfield. Craig did and it should have netted him at least one premiership.

Pyke has the power to make some changes.. ie thommo ... looks like that's not happening.

 

[Tex200]

Pyke unfortunately seems to be yet another coach that has difficulty trying to tell Thommo he's not playing.

He also can't seem to imagine what the side would look like without those senior players.

As a consequence we were bulldozed by a powerful team.

Actually I think I've answered the OP!

 

[Vhaluus]

You can only coach the cattle you have. Pyke does not have a premiership quality midfield. Craig did and it should have netted him at least one premiership.

Craig didn't have a forward line.

Every side has weaknesses. Those weaknesses tend to be even worse when you play crap players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Pyke has the power to make some changes.. ie thommo ... looks like that's not happening.

Would be a disaster if Thommo plays again. If it's O'Keefe 2014, VB 2016... whatever. If he's parked in the centre square though it's a huge step backwards.

 

[Interloperer]

Are we really suggesting that anything could possibly have been lost by giving Harry Dear a game against Essendon for example? (NB, that actually hurt us on the season, as i'd argue not having blooded him earlier in the season hampered our ability to not play an obviously injured Jenkins. Wigg not up to it

I think player management had already shifted from just 'conservative' to 'pre-meditated' by this point, where selection changes were scripted weeks in advance and any forced changes were undone as soon as possible.

As evidence: McGovern was not dropped after one of the worst games by an Adelaide player, but then was missing a week later after having redeemed himself.

Simultaneous to this, established players were allowed to develop and worsen limiting injuries in games they could have safely missed.

What makes the difference is the high end talent, the top 10 or so. They provide the quality, they are the difference between winning and losing

Roo said before the match we'd win because Sydney fell off too much after their top 10.

Which explains our failed mindset all the way back to Craig (also on topic), which is that you don't need top talent you need an even spread.

Not sure if I agree with everything here. But I feel like a good example of this attitude hurting the club was the idea that club's recruiting was a net gain because you could slide-out Dangerfield and slide-in multiple 'pretty good' players, who collectively are better than one Dangerfield, like there isn't the limiting factor of 18 players on the field at once.

 

[MRB37]

Except we had a huge change in game plan for round 1, so he didn't inherit this game style at all.

But tactical tweaks to the game plan week to week, half to half, are what makes a great coach.

If Pyke can't make tactical changes like this then he IS Craig 2.0, great at training, great at theory crafting but not an actual coach.

You really think Roo or Clarkson would have gone into the second Geelong game with no gameplan tweak?

We seemed to be flat in the 2nd quarter in more than a few games and came out at the half ready to demolish a side. Whatever tweaks Pyke was making then seemed to work OK.

No it isn't. I've never expected our first year draftees to get 22 games instantly. Jarryd Lyons taking six seasons to reach 50 games is at the other end of the scale. Somewhere in between would be nice

I think ideally you'd have them at about the point Lever is now. 2 years and 36 games, as long as he's healthy next year then he'll crack the 50 game barrier in 3 years.

 

[kulak]

In business it is difficult to get the same team to produce something different.

If IT product team zzz have an existing claims system, and you ask them to make a new generation claims system, there is a high chance they will rebuild the same system. If you want to produce a very different result, it is unusual to achieve that within the same team and same way of working.

In that situation the organisation will form a new team, often with many new people. The new people aren't necessarily better than the existing people, they just aren't conditioned with the existing way of working and therefore have a better chance to produce a different result.

At this point we have to treat this AFC model as one which produces a certain predictable outcome. Our player development is good. We are competitive. We stick to the plan. When meaningful victory is within grasp we go into our shells.

Here is what I posted on 16 May, after the round 8 loss to Geelong. Seems like without drastic change, there is a pretty good chance that the same team will continue to produce the same product.

Signs were there when he wanted to talk about umpiring after we got smashed in midfield by Bulldogs. That's loser talk. No surprise we got walloped again the same way against Geelong.

Early signs are there he has a nice game plan, and no ability to create a winning mentality.

There has been plenty of opportunity for a Blighty-style rant / dropping of former leaders associated with a failed culture. Doesn't seem to be his approach.

...

What I do care about is demolishing the culture expects to lose. When things don't go to plan we withdraw into our shells. Don't make a mistake. Make sure that if (when?) it all goes wrong, at least it wasn't my fault.

Lost to Hawthorn? We played well. Hawthorn were just too good in the last 5 minutes. It wasn't my fault.

Lost to Western Bulldogs? The umpires did us in. At least our players kept persisting. It wasn't my fault.

Lost to Geelong? They were just too good for us. Gee Dangerfield is a nice player. At least our players kept persisting. It wasn't my fault.

Picture the meltdown if we lose to Gold Coast. I can smell a 'sack the coach' thread already.

I would not care about the VB selection at all if we had been fighting through difficult situations this year. But we haven't. We have been curled into the foetal position, just waiting for our opponents to beat us.

Read in that context, the VB selection stinks of fear. It says the AFC is not expecting a victory. It says the AFC is fearing a loss.

 

[kulak]

Hi Don, you're less than 12 months in to your role. Here's a breakdown of all the list management errors you've made.

It's more common to make big, controversial changes right at the start of your tenure.

You could still be right, but I think the odds are for more of the same.

Edit: ie the stability approach of Neil Craig rather than the incineration approach of Malcolm Blight

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It's more common to make big, controversial changes right at the start of your tenure.

You could still be right, but I think the odds are for more of the same.

Edit: ie the stability approach of Neil Craig rather than the incineration approach of Malcolm Blight

He's certainly not a Blight.

Proof will be next season for me whether he falls in the Craig category or somewhere between the two.

If Thompson, Mackay and Douglas are all front and centre again we're doomed for all eternity.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

He's certainly not a Blight.

Proof will be next season for me whether he falls in the Craig category or somewhere between the two.

If Thompson, Mackay and Douglas are all front and centre again we're doomed for all eternity.

But let's be fair, there is only one Blight

 

[kulak]

He's certainly not a Blight.

Proof will be next season for me whether he falls in the Craig category or somewhere between the two.

If Thompson, Mackay and Douglas are all front and centre again we're doomed for all eternity.

Yes. I want to like the guy and hope he succeeds so I feel bad about my pessimism. Will need to see some new things next year.

Probably would be fair to say that most coaches are more like Craig than Blight. Blight was a real outlier.

Paul Roos is an interesting one, because he coached Sydney as an incrementalist, and then Melbourne he incinerated. IIRC he gave the Melbourne players a chance for 1 year before making massive changes? Here's hoping

 

[Elite Crow]

The keeping of Thommo is not a good sign

 

[baldandbroke]

The keeping of Thommo is not a good sign

Maybe, want to see what his role is next year. Backup for injured / rested players then that move was a tick. Plays all games in the 1's for the "experience" factor - big fail.

 

[Elite Crow]

Maybe, want to see what his role is next year. Backup for injured / rested players then that move was a tick. Plays all games in the 1's for the "experience" factor - big fail.

Backup? We've got about 5 midfielders playing sanfl this year that all need a game.

 

[baldandbroke]

Backup? We've got about 5 midfielders playing sanfl this year that all need a game.

I hope some of those make it into the 22 too, and I hear what you are saying.

If there is an injury, why put Thommo in ahead of a young player that needs a shot.

And I think Thommo would be a "break in case of emergency" type backup. Like VB was last year. See out his career in the 2's with very little chance of playing in the AFL. Do I think that is probable? Nope. I am worried that we won't make big changes in our starting 22.

I want to see Dear, Menzel, ROB, Hampton, Seedsman, Wigg, Doedee, Milera all get a decent run this year ... hopefully they push some of the incumbents out of their positions naturally. Lyons, CEY should be traded. Mackay, Douglas, can play SANFL (or seek a trade next week). Henderson / Grigg will be gone.

There is space for some movement internally for sure, hope we see these players stamp themselves into the starting squad in 2017

 

[Elite Crow]

I hope some of those make it into the 22 too, and I hear what you are saying.

If there is an injury, why put Thommo in ahead of a young player that needs a shot.

And I think Thommo would be a "break in case of emergency" type backup. Like VB was last year. See out his career in the 2's with very little chance of playing in the AFL. Do I think that is probable? Nope. I am worried that we won't make big changes in our starting 22.

I want to see Dear, Menzel, ROB, Hampton, Seedsman, Wigg, Doedee, Milera all get a decent run this year ... hopefully they push some of the incumbents out of their positions naturally. Lyons, CEY should be traded. Mackay, Douglas, can play SANFL (or seek a trade next week). Henderson / Grigg will be gone.

There is space for some movement internally for sure, hope we see these players stamp themselves into the starting squad in 2017

Surely we would have learnt from VB. We played him when we shouldn't have and once dropped for the second time he was never coming back

 

[baldandbroke]

Surely we would have learnt from VB. We played him when we shouldn't have and once dropped for the second time he was never coming back

I hope so, have no problems with throwing a club legend a cheap 1 year contract to bow out gracefully ... and have the possibility of playing a game or two.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The keeping of Thommo is not a good sign

That was a crushing blow to the club

 

[Vhaluus]

Just need a new coach each season until we get a Blight

Were we having this same discussion about Walsh before he passed?

The question marks over Pyke started earlier in the season than we lost Walsh.