Roast You didn't trade Sam Hayes, maybe not so muppetty after all

[Duckimus Prime]

So outstanding he was dropped after those 7 games?

Also he is 5 years into the system.

So outstanding that we were +ve on clearances in just two of those 7 games. Against North and West Coast.

Which means a couple of things, his woeful tank means we were running without a ruck for even more stoppages. Or his tap work isn't that great, and he was laying it on a platter for the opposition mids even more often that ours.

Despite the masturbation about his Hit out to Advantage numbers, that's still only around a 1/3 of ruck contests where he wins the tap. Its what happens in the other two thirds of ruck contests when he wins the hit out, and also when he loses the hit out that are the problem.

 

[philthy05]

I just feel like when he isn't actually rucking he was just plodding around and not offering much else. And he looked gassed a lot of the time too, which is on him not preparing himself to run out games. He isn't a young kid either, he was drafted in 2017. The time is now for him to get his sh!t together.

How he performs at magpies level doesn't mean much, the SANFL is a terrible standard, i'd be worried if after 5 years he wasn't completely dominating that comp.

How did our clearance numbers compare with and without him int he side, i don't know the answer to this but this is more key than hit outs.

In the seconds in between ruck contests he was presenting down the line for long kicks regularly, the best we’ve seen do it in a long time.

That’s far more useful than lycett being an absolute waste of space as an around the ground aerial threat but getting a few cheap touches in link up play through the centre of the ground

I’ll take a ruck who gets to contests on the wing and stops opponents from taking easy marks there or takes them over a ruck being used in link up handballs through the middle of the ground like lycett every day of the week. Hayes was doing that. Only lacked the size to really impact them as much at afl level as he’s been doing at sanfl level.

Hayes wasn’t as big a presence around the ground in marking in his first 7 games but that’s entirely normal, and could see the effort was there just not the bulk yet. Another 2 preseasons and he would be an absolute weapon with his height and reach.

Also your “not a kid” remark is well off the mark.

It speaks to not knowing the reality of rucks.

Just going off of current rucks

Witts - 25 when he broke out
O’Brien - 24
Darcy - 19 (freak who was like 100kgs as a 16yr old)
Nankervis - 23
Gawn - 23
Mcinernry - 27
Hickey - 25
Pittonet - 25
Lycett - 27

Hayes stats this year blow most of those guys break out years out the water.

What’s he going to be at 25 if we develop him?

Also, are you familiar with sanfl level? It’s well below afl level in most areas but most rucks are seasoned guys who are or have been on afl lists and are genuinely quite good.

As for clearances, I don’t know the number either, tho i do know that quality is as important as quantity.

For years we’ve all knocked the quality of our clearances. Commenting on how teams seem to make it look easy taking the ball from a clearance to a goal while Our clearances are messy and lead to turnovers

That’s the result of a negating ruck whose role is to bring the ball down inside the contest and not let it get out easy + Hinkley gameplan of numbers making it congested.

A ruck who aims to clear the ball gives his team a much better chance of getting a quality clearance.

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

Is Sam Hayes lack of aerobic capacity simply down to his genetics, serious question?

If I wasn't such a dusky I'd post the article but his younger brother Lewis Hayes finished the 2KM time trial on his hands and knees, hope he's alright.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

So outstanding he was dropped after those 7 games?

Also he is 5 years into the system.

The head coach who dropped him is currently going in to year 11 without even making a grand final. This year we stated pre-season that we were aiming for a grand final at a minimum and finished 11th.

For me, Hayes being dropped by a coaching group that have massively underperformed is if anything a positive. The decision to drop him was made by a group that have been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt to make bad decisions.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Not trading out Hayes is a big win for the offseason.

Also sounded like Monty never rated him too, so all for seeing if something changes with Carr

 

[JimmyBC]

They may not trade him but I'm struggling to see where he fits they prefer Scooter at this point & assuming Esava comes in there's another mobile chop out in the side along with Finlayson.

He'll have to knock Scott out the side & even that might not be enough if they go with Teakle supported by mobile chop out options.

 

[backtozero]

They may not trade him but I'm struggling to see where he fits they prefer Scooter at this point & assuming Esava comes in there's another mobile chop out in the side along with Finlayson.

He'll have to knock Scott out the side & even that might not be enough if they go with Teakle supported by mobile chop out options.

I don't think Teakle should really be a priority at this stage. His inclusion last season seemed very premature.

 

[JimmyBC]

I don't think Teakle should really be a priority at this stage. His inclusion last season seemed very premature.

Yea possibly I'm just not convinced Monty was the only one driving the contingent of mobile rucks over the actual craft.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

They may not trade him but I'm struggling to see where he fits they prefer Scooter at this point & assuming Esava comes in there's another mobile chop out in the side along with Finlayson.

He'll have to knock Scott out the side & even that might not be enough if they go with Teakle supported by mobile chop out options.

Lycett is probably the worst ruckman in the comp, I hope Hayes gets given a fair chance

 

[JimmyBC]

Lycett is probably the worst ruckman in the comp, I hope Hayes gets given a fair chance

I do too but I think they still rate Lycett as our number 1.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I do too but I think they still rate Lycett as our number 1.

Fingers crossed that Josh Carr has some sense and can see how cooked Lycett is.

 

[Bevoman]

Fingers crossed that Josh Carr has some sense and can see how cooked Lycett is.

Copy Geelong: Hayes take the centre bounce and Finlayson starts on the wing.
Finlayson follows the ball and takes all the ball ups forward of centre.

Hayes drifts into defence or attack dragging the oppositions ruckman with him.

 

[afl2004]

5 on the interchange next year no sub , no reason to not play hayes

 

[Ports1870]

I don't think Teakle should really be a priority at this stage. His inclusion last season seemed very premature.

Teakle seemed very odd. He was playing 2nd Ruck behind Hayes in SANFL, but the gets picked ahead of Hayes to be our number 1 for the Richmond game.

 

[Rendaw]

Keep him and play him

 

[Bevoman]

Teakle seemed very odd. He was playing 2nd Ruck behind Hayes in SANFL, but the gets picked ahead of Hayes to be our number 1 for the Richmond game.

Teakle's ruck skills are very rough. But he can run and take a pack mark.
You can learn to ruck bit harder to run faster.

Ruckman most be mobil with Geelong beeing the template

 

[JimmyBC]

Teakle's ruck skills are very rough. But he can run and take a pack mark.
You can learn to ruck bit harder to run faster.

Ruckman most be mobil with Geelong beeing the template

You can't teach being a naturally smart tap ruck the list of spuds we've tried to teach over the years proves it.

Geelong are just flavour of the month not the gleaming example I'd take Gawn every day of the week over that set up.

 

[Watto71]

I can see Teakle in the backhalf

 

[Chrizzt]

Hayes' slow development is a huge reason we need to get our reserves the * out of the SANFL.

Filled with absolute plodder rucks who play a completely different style of ruck to what is needed in the AFL. Sure, there's not a plethora of high quality rucks running around the VFL, but at least most of the AFL reserve rucks are adhering to an AFL ruck style in terms of around the ground work.

 

[Tibbs]

Sam's brother Lewis worryingly shown here collapsing from exhaustion

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While he seems to have the same issue as his brother, he moves really nicely around the ground. Playing as a tall back.

 

[davesnothere]

Sam's brother Lewis worryingly shown here collapsing from exhaustion

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While he seems to have the same issue as his brother, he moves really nicely around the ground. Playing as a tall back.

I'm wondering what Lewis's sectionals were for the run. You go out too hard early (prove a point maybe?) then you don't finish well period.

You should be able to pace yourself for a couple of Ks.

Still interested if he's there at our pick.

 

[Bevoman]

You can't teach being a naturally smart tap ruck the list of spuds we've tried to teach over the years proves it.

Geelong are just flavour of the month not the gleaming example I'd take Gawn every day of the week over that set up.

Gawn does not like it when you jump into him.
The Dees are a clearance team, maybe he played injured this year but he was one of the reasons thay dropped off.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Not trading out Hayes is a big win for the offseason.

Also sounded like Monty never rated him too, so all for seeing if something changes with Carr

To be fair, Monty saw a wide range of Rucks in his time at Port so ‘should’ be a pretty good judge, Primus, Lade, French, Brogan, Ackland, Brooks…

 

[RangaInTeal]

Gawn does not like it when you jump into him.
The Dees are a clearance team, maybe he played injured this year but he was one of the reasons thay dropped off.

They have the perfect 1-2 punch now, Grundy will go and beat up on the Opposition’s #1 similar to Brogan, Gawn will play the last 7-10 mins of the match and dine out on the carcass’.

Their midfield is going to explode, Trac will win the Brownlow next year!

 

[Freak Dodgeball Accident]

So outstanding that we were +ve on clearances in just two of those 7 games. Against North and West Coast.

Which means a couple of things, his woeful tank means we were running without a ruck for even more stoppages. Or his tap work isn't that great, and he was laying it on a platter for the opposition mids even more often that ours.

Despite the masturbation about his Hit out to Advantage numbers, that's still only around a 1/3 of ruck contests where he wins the tap. Its what happens in the other two thirds of ruck contests when he wins the hit out, and also when he loses the hit out that are the problem.

What do you expect? He should have had 10 games under his belt already, rucking in tandem with Lycett or Ladhams. Instead he was used as an absolute last resort and thrown in the deep end.