Don't want, (or need) to start a new thread - still want to post it though

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
Interesting.
I grew up in Australia as the child of Turkish imigrants.
Despite Turks not being the most liked race (for good reason, I don't like them much myself either :)) I've always found Australians on the most part to be very accepting, inclusive and tolerant.

Personally I reckon this guy is seeing things that aren't there. Don't like the way he, in my opinion, slurs Australia unjustifiably.
Yes, Australia in the past wronged the Aboriginals and yes we still have a long way to go to correct those wrongs, but current day Australia is nothing like what he is making out.

Ok, this is about to get "real", and Mods, feel free to move/delete it if it's not really for this board.
(As a footnote, or rather TL/DR: I am not saying that "Australians are racist", I am saying for too long our society has accepted behaviours that we need to grow out of, and we need to become better at addressing and changing these, rather than becoming defensive and oppositional every time the topic is raised)

I'm an aussie of Middle Eastern origins who's been here since I was 2. (>30 years). For much of my life, I've believed that Australia I lived in was "tolerant" and multicultural, but as I've gotten older the more I've realised that isn't really the true story. I've not faced much trouble because I present myself as an "Aussie". For most of my life I hated my background culture (and some parts of it I still do) and I try as much as possible to not present it in day to day life. I haven't changed my name, but I changed its pronunciation whilst at high school to stop people struggling with it, whilst plenty of others have taken on anglicised names. (I saw a movie (?) recently that had a mother saying to their child: "If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky and Schwarzenegger, they can learn your name as well" - that really hit home). I don't drink (though often feel like I have to apologise for it) but the rest of my life would be culturally "normal".
And even then, I have faced more than my share of racism. All the stuff I passed off at school as "friendly banter" was ******* racist. My Y12 leaver's shirt was covered in comments of "terrorist", "bomber" and s**t like that (this is pre- Sep 11). I've had racist slurs hurled at me, most memorably on multiple "Australia Day's", and unironically, by a group of Aussies when I was in the UK with mates (We had already spoken to them earlier that night). I often hear the same from patients, and get the casual racist comments, like: "I'm glad you speak like an Aussie - not like those other guys".

And I'm someone who has tried to shed most of my cultural heritage. I cannot imagine what is experienced by those who are more attached to their background, who still want to display parts of their cultural, or religious, identity in public, or who arrive here at a later age and speak with an accent or struggle with aussie vernacular.

My current impression is that for far too long, we have tolerated behaviours and attitudes, that are prejudiced in their origins, and nothing but divisive in their expression.
This is all the more manifested when you see any current social discourses on topics such as australia day (the amount of online rhetoric that is basically "they should just go back and live in huts" is just saddening), immigration (FYI - "Illegal Immigrant" is a misnomer. It is not illegal to seek Asylum, and it is a human right to have an asylum claim properly assessed. If we want to talk about actual "Illegal Immigrants", which is those arriving/staying with the wrong/no/expired Visa's, then the discussion would be about UK and European arrivals by plane, who are the vast majority, when I last saw the figures - is it any surprise that this is never the story?) or media reporting of crime (An african must be in a gang, a middle eastern must be a terrorist, a white guy is just misunderstood or mentally unwell).

As a society we need to be able to properly identify and address these things, and all other challenges, in a mature and inclusive way.
(And this applies to both sides of the coin - there is no benefit, when raising these issues, to doing so in an argumentative, or divisive, "me vs them" way).
 
Last edited:
Ok, this is about to get "real", and Mods, feel free to move/delete it if it's not really for this board.
(As a footnote, or rather TL/DR: I am not saying that "Australians are racist", I am saying for too long our society has accepted behaviours that we need to grow out of, and we need to become better at addressing and changing these, rather than becoming defensive and oppositional every time the topic is raised)

I'm an aussie of Middle Eastern origins who's been here since I was 2. (>30 years). For much of my life, I've believed that Australia I lived in was "tolerant" and multicultural, but as I've gotten older the more I've realised that isn't really the true story. I've not faced much trouble because I present myself as an "Aussie". For most of my life I hated my background culture (and some parts of it I still do) and I try as much as possible to not present it in day to day life. I haven't changed my name, but I changed its pronunciation whilst at high school to stop people struggling with it, whilst plenty of others have taken on anglicised names. (I saw a movie (?) recently that had a mother saying to their child: "If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky and Schwarzenegger, they can learn your name as well" - that really hit home). I don't drink (though often feel like I have to apologise for it) but the rest of my life would be culturally "normal".
And even then, I have faced more than my share of racism. All the stuff I passed off at school as "friendly banter" was ******* racist. My Y12 leaver's shirt was covered in comments of "terrorist", "bomber" and s**t like that (this is pre- Sep 11). I've had racist slurs hurled at me, most memorably on multiple "Australia Day's", and unironically, by a group of Aussies when I was in the UK with mates (We had already spoken to them earlier that night). I often hear the same from patients, and get the casual racist comments, like: "I'm glad you speak like an Aussie - not like those other guys".

And I'm someone who has tried to shed most of my cultural heritage. I cannot imagine what is experienced by those who are more attached to their background, who still want to display parts of their cultural, or religious, identity in public, or who arrive here at a later age and speak with an accent or struggle with aussie vernacular.

My current impression is that for far too long, we have tolerated behaviours and attitudes, that are prejudiced in their origins, and nothing but divisive in their expression.
This is all the more manifested when you see any current social discourses on topics such as australia day (the amount of online rhetoric that is basically "they should just go back and live in huts" is just saddening), immigration (FYI - "Illegal Immigrant" is a misnomer. It is not illegal to seek Asylum, and it is a human right to have an asylum claim properly assessed. If we want to talk about actual "Illegal Immigrants", which is those arriving/staying with the wrong/no/expired Visa's, then the discussion would be about UK and European arrivals by plane, who are the vast majority, when I last saw the figures - is it any surprise that this is never the story?) or media reporting of crime (An african must be in a gang, a middle eastern must be a terrorist, a white guy is just misunderstood or mentally unwell).

As a society we need to be able to properly identify and address these things, and all other challenges, in a mature and inclusive way.
(And this applies to both sides of the coin - there is no benefit, when raising these issues, to doing so in an argumentative, or divisive, "me vs them" way).
Thanks for the reply mate.
You brought up some topics which were not part of my post. Asylum seekers etc.
For what it is worth I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point. The way Australia is dealing with asylum seekers is absolutely disgusting. I am living in Turkey at the moment and as much as there are many things I am very critical about here, one thing this country is doing right is looking after asylum seekers.
There are currently 4 million Syrian refugees here. That's right, 4 million. And this country is housing them humanely. They are free to travel around, they are not locked in quasi prisons. They are free to find employment and if they can't are taken care of by the government. This country is looking after 4 million refugees while economic powerhouses like France, Italy and the UK are bitching and moaning about 20 thousand or so turning up at their front door.

As for your comment about friendly banter actually being racist I disagree with you. Australians are laconic. Having a bit of a dig is part of the culture. I was quite often referred to as a wog by my friends, hell I was happy to refer to myself as a wog. Never bothered me because I always understood that my friends calling me a wog was not an insult. Quite the opposite actually, a part of the way we express our "tightness" as friends in Australia is by saying crap to each other that we would never say to people we are just acquaintances with.

One thing I do know is that even if it was said in fun, if for example it bothered me then all I would have needed to do was express that I don't appreciate it and my friends would have stopped doing it instantly.

I'm not saying that there are no racist Australians. What I am saying it that I believe it is absolutely wrong to generalise Australians as racist. Travel the world a bit and you soon realise just how inclusive and accepting Australians are compared to other nationalities.

The odd slur here or there does not make a nation racist.
If you are being denied opportunity, if you are being treated second class, if the native population won't associate with you, or don't treat you as an equal, then you have a racist society. None of this happens in Australia.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Has Marley Williams been a naughty boy?
 
Has Marley Williams been a naughty boy?

I had a quick look at the North board and the majority seem very happy to dismiss it as a good bloke just looking after his mate.

Given Marley's history I wouldn't be so quick to give him a pass.

Not exactly a Rhodes Scholar, that young man.
 
I had a quick look at the North board and the majority seem very happy to dismiss it as a good bloke just looking after his mate.

Given Marley's history I wouldn't be so quick to give him a pass.

Not exactly a Rhodes Scholar, that young man.
People can get into troubles by being wrong place, wrong time; people can also support their mates.

But!

Sometimes troubles follow when you put yourself in silly situations with a few too many ales in you.
 
People can get into troubles by being wrong place, wrong time; people can also support their mates.

But!

Sometimes troubles follow when you put yourself in silly situations with a few too many ales in you.

Just in case you're wondering Saintly the second picture is of "our" very own Sam Murray and Marley Williams. :think:

 
Just in case you're wondering Saintly the second picture is of "our" very own Sam Murray and Marley Williams. :think:


Same same

At least it’s daylight.

Most issues mysteriously seem to happen late at night and mysteriously alcohol seems to be involved.


(Where’s jmac to keep them in line and by keeping them to a good craft beer)
 
Is that Sam with the middle finger raised? If I was Marley I would be a little more careful of the company I keep. Guilt by association etc. Sam's AFL career cannot have much longer to run.

That's correct TGG

As for Marley and being guilty by association...…..we did get pick 105 for him yeah? :drunk:
 
That's correct TGG

As for Marley and being guilty by association...…..we did get pick 105 for him yeah? :drunk:
No longer our problem or otherwise.

Ball butcher too.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Same same

At least it’s daylight.

Most issues mysteriously seem to happen late at night and mysteriously alcohol seems to be involved.


(Where’s jmac to keep them in line and by keeping them to a good craft beer)
Just young people having fun. No issue from my view.
 
Just young people having fun. No issue from my view.
People can have as much fun as they like.
If they are behaved and considerate more power to them.

To be a supreme athlete wise decisions are prudent.
 
He has a point though, there is significant racism in this country.

Sadly, yes there is, but the point that often gets overlooked is that racism is a 2-way street.
 
No idea how that works.

Some of the most racist individuals I've ever met have been indigenous. Just as sexist behaviours can be based in misogyny as much as in misandry.

Peoples attitudes can't be generalised by race, colour or gender.
 
Some of the most racist individuals I've ever met have been indigenous. Just as sexist behaviours can be based in misogyny as much as in misandry.

Peoples attitudes can't be generalised by race, colour or gender.
The appalling treatment of Aboriginal people since colonisation cannot be denied. Whatever individual Aboriginal people have given back pales into insignificance when compared to the suffering inflicted by white culture.
 
The appalling treatment of Aboriginal people since colonisation cannot be denied. Whatever individual Aboriginal people have given back pales into insignificance when compared to the suffering inflicted by white culture.

I think you're confusing a few disparate issues there.
 
Why would Australian cricket pick batsmen averaging 30s first cosss cricket over the future Pukovski who averages high 40s already (49 or so on average)
 
Why would Australian cricket pick batsmen averaging 30s first cosss cricket over the future Pukovski who averages high 40s already (49 or so on average)

How'd they go in the warm-up tour match?
 
How'd they go in the warm-up tour match?
Taking everything into account wer’re in a weak trust era for our side.

Even Head averages 30s in 80 first class matches; really he shouldn’t be a mainstay bat let alone vice captain, granted its a temp fill in position.

Lauberchagne (spelling?) averaging low 30s in first class and 50s in bowling. Not sure that spells a fine player for us.

Just need to find better players.
Weak eras, Happens.
 
I think you're confusing a few disparate issues there.
Not really. There is still a general racist view of Aboriginal Australia. Remember, up until recently, they weren’t even regarded in this country as human.
We’ve come a long way since then but yet we still can’t do something as simple as changing the date for Australia Day.
Why do you think that is?
 
Meanwhile in beautiful hot Melbourne, Australia, Nadal is putting on a clinic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top