Draft Winners and Losers

[Forward Press]

You have NFI what my network is

lmao, the classic keyboard warrior it is then.

 

[HairyO]

As WCE Phil stated, the AFL is (for legal reasons you'd suspect) rather circumspect with medical information on players. He has a network of Victorian scouts however, which has far better access than blaisee.



Craft of the Draft, interviewing a coach. Sold.

Surely the AFL cant be releasing incorrect medical info though. So if a player has had 6 concussions and the AFL said its 2, then that would be a legal mess if the player got 1 more concussion then was forced to retire.

 

[Farang83150]

You have NFI what my network is

Which one are you?

 

[Rich01]

I think the issue is that the records don't show up everything. Being at games and seeing him take a hit to the head, and stagger around for a bit is sometimes the only way that you'd know if he'd been concussed or not.

This.

If West Coast believe he’s had six concussions that’s up to them. Hard to dispute. I know the AFL medical records didn’t realise close to this number and all clubs get the same info. If they were at games and made calls on when Luke was concussed but it wasn’t reported that’s what they count. Whether he was or not is up for dispute. What West Coast believe isn’t.

Where clubs interview the player in question and his coaches, they can make their own assessment. I know other clubs didn’t have that number at six. But that’s not saying Phil’s team didn’t make that assessment and ruled him out as being too risky.

 

[jdstorm]

But Richmond did go small after the talls. We picked up Algar with a future 4th. A lot of mock drafts had him going in the mid-late 20s. If we'd picked up Algar with 28 and not picked Sims do you think we would have had a better draft?

No.

Because at 14 there were guys on the board rated in a better tier of player. You also did need to take talls and that 20s range is a good place to do it if you aren’t top 5 (which is an important crapshoot)

A dropping top10 worthy talent at 14 is a very different proposition to a player with a range between 20 and 50 which scouts said was a fairly even tier.

It’s really just a bet on faul and at some point you have to back in your processes/picks.

My dislike of the choice is more an ideological process choice vs a player specific choice. It’s also about appetite for risk and I’m overall more risk averse than Richmond’s team.

We’ll see over the course of the next few years if it was a smart risk or not

 

[Forward Press]

Surely the AFL cant be releasing incorrect medical info though. So if a player has had 6 concussions and the AFL said its 2, then that would be a legal mess if the player got 1 more concussion then was forced to retire.

It's the argument that at school level, the AFL (understandably) may not have all the info and even if they did, would be reluctant to release a full medical history.

WCE Phil has outlined the scouting network that West Coast have in Victoria and it's not just some part timer and an unpaid intern, let's just say. Maybe they are incorrect. But I would believe them - and every other club's scouting network, by the way - over posts by some BigFooty nuffie.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I think the issue is that the records don't show up everything. Being at games and seeing him take a hit to the head, and stagger around for a bit is sometimes the only way that you'd know if he'd been concussed or not.

Medical records also showed that Joel Selwood was high risk and would be injury plagued that’s why six clubs passed on him how did that work out?

 

[Chief]

Medical records also showed that Joel Selwood was high risk and would be injury plagued that’s why six clubs passed on him how did that work out?

Dude kept falling over!

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

This.

If West Coast believe he’s had six concussions that’s up to them. Hard to dispute. I know the AFL medical records didn’t realise close to this number and all clubs get the same info. If they were at games and made calls on when Luke was concussed but it wasn’t reported that’s what they count. Whether he was or not is up for dispute. What West Coast believe isn’t.

Where clubs interview the player in question and his coaches, they can make their own assessment. I know other clubs didn’t have that number at six. But that’s not saying Phil’s team didn’t make that assessment and ruled him out as being too risky.

Also at 16's level games not reported if there concussions or at preseason training.

 

[THE_GUN]

Surely the AFL cant be releasing incorrect medical info though. So if a player has had 6 concussions and the AFL said its 2, then that would be a legal mess if the player got 1 more concussion then was forced to retire.

If i am the father of a 18 year old boy thats copped 6 concussions then there is no way my kid is nominating for the draft

 

[HairyO]

If i am the father of a 18 year old boy thats copped 6 concussions then there is no way my kid is nominating for the draft

Its a tough one. By 18 they have already been dedicating their life to playing football (save the rare freaks who succeed at every sport). So youre destroying the dream based on a maybe.

But it would be an incredibly hard decision.

 

[Cdog71]

Trainor is known to have multiple concussions and concussion concerns phil_WCE is apart of our Victorian scouting team and if he says he has had 6 concussions I’d be very much inclined to believe it. He had two reported ones this year alone

No
Had two last season and had an event in the finals this year, taken to hospital under advice and provided a brain scan and report for all clubs as part of his medical history.

 

[Cdog71]

Also at 16's level games not reported if there concussions or at preseason training.

No
Every incident of concussion needs to be documented in junior football.

 

[eth-dog]

No
Every incident of concussion needs to be documented in junior football.

As of 2023 I'm pretty sure. The take up at a local/junior level took a while.

 

[Monsterdarlz]

No
Had two last season and had an event in the finals this year, taken to hospital under advice and provided a brain scan and report for all clubs as part of his medical history.

Clubs don’t get access to full medicals case in point is WCE with Hewett and his foot problems the AFL and his family knew but we don’t so I wouldn’t assume what you read is true

 

[Monsterdarlz]

No
Had two last season and had an event in the finals this year, taken to hospital under advice and provided a brain scan and report for all clubs as part of his medical history.

Also a brain scan isn’t going to show jack when it comes to long term damage

 

[Rich01]

Also at 16's level games not reported if there concussions or at preseason training.

Yup, it would be a stellar West Coast recruiting team to be at all his under 16s games as well as attend pre season training to assess talent and also check concussions.

As far as I know Richmond only have one dedicated resource to the year below the current batch of draftees and then a small batch of passionate part timers.

That’s where it gets really speculative on his concussion history and I doubt any club would be 100% definitive on his history at that time.

West Coast though obviously thought he was too risky. Other clubs didn’t.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

If i am the father of a 18 year old boy thats copped 6 concussions then there is no way my kid is nominating for the draft

To quote Achilles: "and that is why no one will remember your name"

 

[THE_GUN]

Its a tough one. By 18 they have already been dedicating their life to playing football (save the rare freaks who succeed at every sport). So youre destroying the dream based on a maybe.

But it would be an incredibly hard decision.

As a parent its not a hard choice to make
If your kid has had 6 concussions then you pull them out its a simple choice to make

 

[Rich01]

Also at 16's level games not reported if there concussions or at preseason training.

Exactly. It would be a phenomenal club recruiting network that’s able to monitor all players and sessions at that age level.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Also a brain scan isn’t going to show jack when it comes to long term damage

Is that your professional medical opinion ?

It’s all purely guesswork by BF posters around Trainor’s concussion history. It’s also complete guesswork as to what the brain scans have shown in regards to susceptibility to future problems.

With the data they had available - brain scans, ‘actual’ professional medical advice etc…Richmond picked him. It’s naive to suggest there wasn’t loads of research and professional advice about Trainor that clubs were privy to.

It’s really no different to Judd getting picked at 3 and not 1 due to ‘dodgy’ shoulders. Or Selwood going 7 and not 1 due to a ‘dodgy’ knee. Trainor went 18 and not higher due to a ‘dodgy’ brain.

Maybe it’ll hinder him in future, or like Judd and Selwood, maybe it won’t. But with all the available data it’s a risk Richmond were willing to take. And the fact they used 18 on him id say they’re pretty confident he’s likely to have a long and successful career.



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[Monsterdarlz]

Is that your professional medical opinion ?

It’s all purely guesswork by BF posters around Trainor’s concussion history. It’s also complete guesswork as to what the brain scans have shown in regards to susceptibility to future problems.

With the data they had available - brain scans, ‘actual’ professional medical advice etc…Richmond picked him. It’s naive to suggest there wasn’t loads of research and professional advice about Trainor that clubs were privy to.

It’s really no different to Judd getting picked at 3 and not 1 due to ‘dodgy’ shoulders. Or Selwood going 7 and not 1 due to a ‘dodgy’ knee. Trainor went 18 and not higher due to a ‘dodgy’ brain.

Maybe it’ll hinder him in future, or like Judd and Selwood, maybe it won’t. But with all the available data it’s a risk Richmond were willing to take. And the fact they used 18 on him id say they’re pretty confident he’s likely to have a long and successful career.



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Clubs aren’t allowed to do medicals on underage players they are relying on the AFL reports. We got caught out with Hewett just two years ago that’s fact.

brain related illnesses, injuries ect are fraught with a lot of inconsistencies and unknowns. Dementia and Alzheimers can’t be properly detected til it’s too late. CTE requires a brain tissue to diagnose/ discover. Concussion symptoms and appropriate medical treatment and care can help identify serverity and a treatment plan. How a player recovers or the lasting damage is almost unknown. Players that have had concussions in the past are much more likely to suffer future ones. So you can understand clubs being weary. But I genuinely hope that Trainor has a long and successful career concussion free. But based on the risks you can’t fault clubs for passing up on him

 

[Rich01]

Clubs aren’t allowed to do medicals on underage players they are relying on the AFL reports. We got caught out with Hewett just two years ago that’s fact.

brain related illnesses, injuries ect are fraught with a lot of inconsistencies and unknowns. Dementia and Alzheimers can’t be properly detected til it’s too late. CTE requires a brain tissue to diagnose/ discover. Concussion symptoms and appropriate medical treatment and care can help identify serverity and a treatment plan. How a player recovers or the lasting damage is almost unknown. Players that have had concussions in the past are much more likely to suffer future ones. So you can understand clubs being weary. But I genuinely hope that Trainor has a long and successful career concussion free. But based on the risks you can’t fault clubs for passing up on him

How did you get caught out with Hewett?