DT Rucks 2012

[dylan123]

I think its time for the dogs to play Roughead ahead of Minson. The experience he is going to gain, something new and development he will gain will be better for the dogs than playing Minson IMO.

Although the dog fans do say Minson is severely underrated on BF.

Personally I hate Minson but this is a guy who managed to get 56 hitouts in the ruck earlier in the year. He will be at 27 years of age, normally when a lot of rucks really start to preform and having the number 1 position to himself with Hudson finally gone, this will be his first chance to really prove himself. I'd be surprised if Roughead got the nod ahead of Minson myself but I don't know how either players pre seasons have been going.

 

[Keystone agony]

Personally I hate Minson but this is a guy who managed to get 56 hitouts in the ruck earlier in the year. He will be at 27 years of age, normally when a lot of rucks really start to preform and having the number 1 position to himself with Hudson finally gone, this will be his first chance to really prove himself. I'd be surprised if Roughead got the nod ahead of Minson myself but I don't know how either players pre seasons have been going.

The days of one ruck getting the nod over the other have sort of gone. What im saying is it is usually two good rucks rotating forward and ruck playing pretty even time especially if there isnt a stand out maybe like Mcevoy at the club. So even if Minson is the dogs preferred ruck you can expect Roughead to play close to as much time as him in the ruck and also spend the other time forward with little time on the bench.

 

[dylan123]

The days of one ruck getting the nod over the other have sort of gone. What im saying is it is usually two good rucks rotating forward and ruck playing pretty even time especially if there isnt a stand out maybe like Mcevoy at the club. So even if Minson is the dogs preferred ruck you can expect Roughead to play close to as much time as him in the ruck and also spend the other time forward with little time on the bench.

Disagree with that a lot, no way do teams share the ruck load 50/50 between their rucks. If anything, they rely more on their #1 ruck to do most of the work and have a pinch hitter coming in when the main ruck needs a rest. If you takes a look at guys such as Jacobs, Lenuenberger, Mumford, McEvoy, Goldstein they all had 80%+ TOG (Goldstein in the 90's) and there is no way these guys spent 30%+ of their TOG in the forward line resting. Cox and Naitanui is about the only example you will find where it's more split and that's because of Cox's ability to play in the forward line along with Naitanui able to start in the centre square with Cox.

 

[Keystone agony]

Disagree with that a lot, no way do teams share the ruck load 50/50 between their rucks. If anything, they rely more on their #1 ruck to do most of the work and have a pinch hitter coming in when the main ruck needs a rest. If you takes a look at guys such as Jacobs, Lenuenberger, Mumford, McEvoy, Goldstein they all had 80%+ TOG (Goldstein in the 90's) and there is no way these guys spent 30%+ of their TOG in the forward line resting. Cox and Naitanui is about the only example you will find where it's more split and that's because of Cox's ability to play in the forward line along with Naitanui able to start in the centre square with Cox.

As i said, if there isnt a real stantout.

For me Minson is no standout over Roughead and vice versa. Goldstein played high TOG in the ruck because the roos had HMAC injured all year, Petrie coming off serious injury. Both will change next year. The other 3 are the standout rucks for their team, eg: they have no one else.

Ryder/Hille/Belly would be another example of switching regularly between ruck and forward evenly. As would Martin and Jamar be another case. Not saying its 50/50 exaclty but the one that plays extra time in the ruck gets less time forward and more time on the bench usually.

 

[Bond.ShaneBond]

As i said, if there isnt a real stantout.

For me Minson is no standout over Roughead and vice versa. Goldstein played high TOG in the ruck because the roos had HMAC injured all year, Petrie coming off serious injury. Both will change next year. The other 3 are the standout rucks for their team, eg: they have no one else.

Ryder/Hille/Belly would be another example of switching regularly between ruck and forward evenly. As would Martin and Jamar be another case. Not saying its 50/50 exaclty but the one that plays extra time in the ruck gets less time forward and more time on the bench usually.

Yeah you pretty much did say that.

It always amazes me that the Rucks thread always has the most traffic before round one ahead of Backs, Forwards and Midfielders. Somebody studying psychology could write a paper on choice using that as an example.

 

[Keystone agony]

What im saying is it is usually two good rucks rotating forward and ruck playing pretty even time especially if there isnt a stand out maybe like Mcevoy at the club.

Yeah you pretty much did say that.

Did I? pretty much

playing even time (if there isnt a stand out) is what i said.

 

[Quigley]

At the Bulldogs there is also Ayce Cordy who was very highly regarded when drafted as a father/son. They will probably want to get a good look at him this year as well and Roughhead would probably be the one to make way.

Personally I do not like the Bulldogs ruck situation for DT purposes at all.

 

[PepperShaker]

Don't know why anyone is talking about Bulldogs rucks. Not DT relevant. Period.

 

[Shane Hird]

At the Bulldogs there is also Ayce Cordy who was very highly regarded when drafted as a father/son. They will probably want to get a good look at him this year as well and Roughhead would probably be the one to make way.

Personally I do not like the Bulldogs ruck situation for DT purposes at all.

Yeah, and lets eliminate that phrase from DT threads...that's all players not just Dog Rucks

 

[Keystone agony]

Don't know why anyone is talking about Bulldogs rucks. Not DT relevant. Period.

Thats your opinion and obviously by looking at this thread people have a different opinion.

I don't see why you can only talk about the things that PS think are relevant to DT.

Im only guessing so correct me if im wrong but i don't reckon you picked Leuy 2010 or Mcevoy 2011. Sometimes those irrelevant DT players end up being the best picks of the year.

 

[54Dogs]

Thats your opinion and obviously by looking at this thread people have a different opinion.

I don't see why you can only talk about the things that PS think are relevant to DT.

Im only guessing so correct me if im wrong but i don't reckon you picked Leuy 2010 or Mcevoy 2011. Sometimes those irrelevant DT players end up being the best picks of the year.

Maybe we'll just stick to DT relevant on the DT board in the DT rucks thread

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Thats your opinion and obviously by looking at this thread people have a different opinion.

I don't see why you can only talk about the things that PS think are relevant to DT.

Im only guessing so correct me if im wrong but i don't reckon you picked Leuy 2010 or Mcevoy 2011. Sometimes those irrelevant DT players end up being the best picks of the year.

Surprisingly I picked both those players ( if only my whole team was as sucessful as my rucks ).
Leu 2010 was cheap as chips and was reportedly having a terrific pre-season after being all but written off on previous years. ( I also had HMac in 2009 similar reasoning ).

McEvoy had to get significantly more game time since King had retired, and Gardiner and Koschitski were injured. No brainer.

Now what are the special circumstances that would lead me to believe that someone at the Bulldogs is a lock in? Anything more than a stab in the dark?

I picked Cox at the start of last year based on him being fit after a terrible 2010 and I'm wondering if I can get a similar result from Sandilands this year. I'll be watching his pre-season closely.

 

[Quigley]

Yeah, and lets eliminate that phrase from DT threads...that's all players not just Dog Rucks

Maybe the phrase should be that the player was highly regarded even by those outside the club's one eyed supporter base.

Cordy was taken as a father son selection in the first round so a club picking higher than 14 (fm) rated him highly enough to commit to picking him. The coaching staff were very excited to get him and after 3 or so years of development I am sure they will want to have a look at what he can do against AFL level competition.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Maybe the phrase should be that the player was highly regarded even by those outside the club's one eyed supporter base.

Cordy was taken as a father son selection in the first round so a club picking higher than 14 (fm) rated him highly enough to commit to picking him. The coaching staff were very excited to get him and after 3 or so years of development I am sure they will want to have a look at what he can do against AFL level competition.

Yeah I think the Saints commited to him.
He may well get some goes in the AFL this year, which makes the whole Bulldogs scenario less certain.
If you want a rookie to get his three games and cash in, by all means go for Cordy. He's unlikely to come in and dominate.
Not for me I'm afraid.

 

[Quigley]

I was not talking up the value of Cordy more talking down the value of Roughhead who I think would be the one to make way for him to get a few games here and there.

 

[Shane Hird]

Sandi is a massive risk this year imo.

Look at the size of the ####er now. Those giant, heavy legs supported by his giant dodgy feet. Like a ticking timebomb..

Can't see Lyon having him on the ball as much as he used too either. He won't resist planting him down in the square for longer periods while Pav leads up the ground.

I'm stayin away..

 

[Keystone agony]

I was not talking up the value of Cordy more talking down the value of Roughhead who I think would be the one to make way for him to get a few games here and there.

From what i know the dogs are developing him more as a forward first rather than ruck first.

As for the above poster in picking Mcevoy last year due to Gardiner injured. King retired.

Dogs #1 ruck traded. Never had any good rucks. Roughead showed plenty late last year as the number 1 ruck.

 

[Falchoon]

Sandi is a massive risk this year imo.

Look at the size of the ####er now. Those giant, heavy legs supported by his giant dodgy feet. Like a ticking timebomb..

Can't see Lyon having him on the ball as much as he used too either. He won't resist planting him down in the square for longer periods while Pav leads up the ground.

I'm stayin away..

Lyon plays players in the goal square ?

 

[Shane Hird]

Lyon plays players in the goal square ?

He will at Subi. Where else are you gunna put him when he gets tired?


Not on the bench...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

From what i know the dogs are developing him more as a forward first rather than ruck first.

As for the above poster in picking Mcevoy last year due to Gardiner injured. King retired.

Dogs #1 ruck traded. Never had any good rucks. Roughead showed plenty late last year as the number 1 ruck.

With McEvoy there was no-one else at all in the list - short of desperate measures.
Yeah, Hudson moved on, and thats the sort of thing you look for, its probably a good bet that all of Roughead, Minson, and Cordy will get more game time than they have in the past.
Minson , could be a good pickup, ( assuming he's fit ). He seems likely to get the number one ruck spot. May be able to get close to McEvoy etc in score.
Now if Minson was injured, I would agree that Roughead was a lock in.

I dont like that they share the bye with Giles, who I will have on the bench and I regard as the best cover for my starting rucks.

 

[Quigley]

From what i know the dogs are developing him more as a forward first rather than ruck first.

As for the above poster in picking Mcevoy last year due to Gardiner injured. King retired.

Dogs #1 ruck traded. Never had any good rucks. Roughead showed plenty late last year as the number 1 ruck.

I think we will agree to disagree on this one.

Renouf is one who might better fit the McEvoy model perhaps. Only 23 and will get the ruck to himself for the first half of the year with Lobbe going down. He is cheap and will certainly make money. Ceiling may not be high enough to tempt me though. Perhaps worth considering with a round 13 bye.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Renouf should almost certainly get the same sorts of scores he did in 2010 as a minimum.
Why did Hawthorn trade him?

 

[Keystone agony]

Renouf should almost certainly get the same sorts of scores he did in 2010 as a minimum.
Why did Hawthorn trade him?

Hawthorn traded him because hes shit. Shows alot of a player when the club is struggling for rucks/talls they trade a ruckman away.

Hawthorn picked up Pattison, clearly showing they think he can do the same job for far less when required.

Renouf has rucked by himself at times at hawthorn, those scores he got than would be about the scores he will get for port i would think.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hawthorn traded him because hes shit. Shows alot of a player when the club is struggling for rucks/talls they trade a ruckman away.

Hawthorn picked up Pattison, clearly showing they think he can do the same job for far less when required.

Renouf has rucked by himself at times at hawthorn, those scores he got than would be about the scores he will get for port i would think.

Yeah he was pretty much the only ruck for most of 2010 I think.
Obviously he hasn't improved much since then and would get a similar score at best.

Pattison not quite the same. He was always going to be at Box Hill, so putting him on the rookie list is fairly low cost/low disruption insurance.
McCauley is also a rookie.
Probably their combined salary's are less than Renouf's was.

 

[Keystone agony]

Yep ^

How good can NN be this year?

I really have no idea on my rucks, basically got the 2 rookies locked in and thats about it. Everyone else is basically being considered with an open mind, sure there are some obvious exclusions.