Moved Thread Dunstall vs Lockett vs Carey vs Ablett vs Lloyd vs Franklin vs J Brown - Who is the most Elite of them all?

[Cyclops]

And how many goals would Lockett have kicked if he replaced Dunstall

Brother you're quoting me, but I didn't type any of that.

 

[MadMaxx]

And how many goals would Lockett have kicked if he replaced Dunstall

Your quotes are borked. i said that

Dunstall was ahead of Plugger in the goals/Game stakes until he did 2x Knees late in his career. You will never hear me knock Big Tony though. They were the best forwards of their generation comfortably.
Both were superb.

 

[My Tilly]

Your quotes are borked. i said that

Dunstall was ahead of Plugger in the goals/Game stakes until he did 2x Knees late in his career. You will never hear me knock Big Tony though. They were the best forwards of their generation comfortably.
Both were superb.

Dunstall played in arguably the greatest team of all time.

How often were they seriously challenged in every grand final he played in?
1989 was close and he was barely satisfactory (playing on Tim Darcy) and the first grand final when Hawthorn were thumped and was terrible.

Ablett played full forward in the 89 grand final.
Half forward flank in 92 and was all alone in the square in the final two grand finals when the midfield was absolutely destroyed.

Jack Gunston may have booted 12 goals in four grand final appearances but he was the third banana.
Look at him right now, opposition sides aren't exactly constructing a game plan to counter Jack as he's simply never been a match winner in the same vein as what a Franklin or Roughead were.

Ridiculous analogy.

Gunston would have been snapped in half if he played in the 80's

 

[MadMaxx]

Dunstall played in arguably the greatest team of all time.

How often were they seriously challenged in every grand final he played in?
1989 was close and he was barely satisfactory (playing on Tim Darcy) and the first grand final when Hawthorn were thumped and was terrible.

Ablett played full forward in the 89 grand final.
Half forward flank in 92 and was all alone in the square in the final two grand finals when the midfield was absolutely destroyed.

Jack Gunston may have booted 12 goals in four grand final appearances but he was the third banana.
Look at him right now, opposition sides aren't exactly constructing a game plan to counter Jack as he's simply never been a match winner in the same vein as what a Franklin or Roughead were.

Ridiculous analogy.

Gunston would have been snapped in half if he played in the 80's

You didn't really address my observation. The Ablett Legend was wrought from 1 good Grand Final out of 4.

All you did was make excuses for the guy. Which kinda supports my point about why he isn't really the greatest.

I made the Gunston comparison to bring you back to earth a bit.

 

[MadMaxx]

Excuses?
How is 17 disposals & 3 goals as a half forward flank in a low possession era an excuse.
One of only a couple of forwards who actually stood up for Geelong that day before Matera went on a rampage in the third quarter.
And no more needs to be said about 89.

You made the Gunston comparison and now look like a complete fool.

I can see a debate with you is not possible.

Ablett is the greatest. Go Gaz!

I concede, you win.

 

[Ricmel]

Dunstall was ahead of Plugger in the goals/Game stakes until he did 2x Knees late in his career. You will never hear me knock Big Tony though. They were the best forwards of their generation comfortably.
Both were superb.

A lot of people don't realise that Plugger debuted at 17 years and 38 days. Dunstall at 20 years and 238 days. Hudson at 21 years.

I'm also not putting any knock on Huddo and Dunstall (Hudson is a mate of mine) but at just 18 years old Plugger kicked 77 in a season and if you take out his first 3 seasons before he turned 20, he averaged close to 6 goals a game for the rest of his career. Every single year where he played a full year after age 20 he kicked 100. Only injury and suspensions stopped him kicking 100 11 times. He kicked 145 bags of 5 plus, 22 times kicking 10 plus.

When you consider he was asthmatic, played in a pretty ordinary team most of his career, was rarely at peak fitness - it is probably the most statistically extraordinary career in AFL history.

 

[MadMaxx]

A lot of people don't realise that Plugger debuted at 17 years and 38 days. Dunstall at 20 years and 238 days. Hudson at 21 years.

I'm also not putting any knock on Huddo and Dunstall (Hudson is a mate of mine) but at just 18 years old Plugger kicked 77 in a season and if you take out his first 3 seasons before he turned 20, he averaged close to 6 goals a game for the rest of his career. Every single year where he played a full year after age 20 he kicked 100. Only injury and suspensions stopped him kicking 100 11 times. He kicked 145 bags of 5 plus, 22 times kicking 10 plus.

When you consider he was asthmatic, played in a pretty ordinary team most of his career, was rarely at peak fitness - it is probably the most statistically extraordinary career in AFL history.

Plugger was amazing. Loved watching him in the 80's and into the 90's. His power was extraordinary

 

[yulong]

Where is the Allen Jakovich option?

 

[Cyclops]

Where is the Allen Jakovich option?
View attachment 2400718

Maybe in the "one tier down" thread? Wonderful player for a short time but certainly not in this class.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Who put j brown in with goal kicking greats?

 

[juss]

I wouldn't have Brown in this tier

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

...that last picture is a chest mark with his knees at waist height...

You're entitled to your opinion. I saw the bloke play and he didn't fly much. The top image is surprisingly high, a real Jezza.

Not versatile though. Too unfit.

As for the double team, too right, more than almost any player I've seen. Triple teamed, too sometimes. They'd let Loewe (arguably an even better mark, as he actually did jump a bit) go one on one because he wasn't as deadly a kick, and like Lockett it didn't even slow him down that much.

We used to leave Plugger one out, often on Ron Mckeon. Ronnie was immensely strong, a brilliant one grab mark and very crafty footy brain, usually held Locket to 6 or 7. Sadly Ron was injury prone, had screws in his foot that got infected every game or so. A genuine coodabeen, and at his best he was our best match up for Lockett.

Famously Damien Monkhorst (aged about 19) goaded Lockett, Monkey perhaps wasn't smart enough to appreciate the danger. Said something rude about greyhounds, Plugger lost it.

That was part of the "unprofessional" knock, he'd lose it from time to time and knock some bloke out. Had plenty of provocation though

Monkey lived, had an incredibly hard head.

Monkhorst was a tough bastard himself, Yarra Valley tradie background so grew up in the bush. Wasn't scared of anybody including Lockett because he was a giant of a man.

 

[kozi]

Lockett
Carey
Ablett
Dunstall
Buddy

Other 2 whilst being greats aren’t in that convo

 

[Chip Scab1]

A lot of people don't realise that Plugger debuted at 17 years and 38 days. Dunstall at 20 years and 238 days. Hudson at 21 years.

I'm also not putting any knock on Huddo and Dunstall (Hudson is a mate of mine) but at just 18 years old Plugger kicked 77 in a season and if you take out his first 3 seasons before he turned 20, he averaged close to 6 goals a game for the rest of his career. Every single year where he played a full year after age 20 he kicked 100. Only injury and suspensions stopped him kicking 100 11 times. He kicked 145 bags of 5 plus, 22 times kicking 10 plus.

When you consider he was asthmatic, played in a pretty ordinary team most of his career, was rarely at peak fitness - it is probably the most statistically extraordinary career in AFL history.

Great post. He'd be a chance at 300 under today's rules.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Great post. He'd be a chance at 300 under today's rules.

Missed over 90 games through injury and suspension as well. He stands alone Imo.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Missed over 90 games through injury and suspension as well. He stands alone Imo.

He does, really.

I have him on par with Carey and Ablett as the greatest I've seen/will ever likely see.

All 3 had ridiculous presence, but nothing compares to watching that Goliath as a young kid at Moorabin (as an away fan in the Halo Club).

Just an epic footballer.