List Mgmt. End of Year List Changes

[smurfin]

It's a ruthless business.
Kozi was limited but performed his role well in the VFL and less well when called up to the AFL.
Blight I thought showed some promise, but was realistically only ahead of Kozi in our KPD list.
Also would have had negligible trade value, sort of like an upgrade of pick 80 to pick 70. With delisted free agency these days it's easy enough for these players to get to a club that wants them.

 

[lalorGOAT]

Get them yourself. Here's a hint -

Bont and Richards 43. If Bont wasn't injured for a third of the season it would have been 50+

Also have a look at a couple of interstate teams.

Geelong's best two midfielders are Bailey Smith and Max Holmes are their two best midfielders would you agree? They have combined for 17 goals.

Brisbane's McCluggage and Neale combined for 20 goals.

I don't even know who Adelaide's 2nd beat midfielder is, but Dawson only has 17 goals.

Gold Coast's Rowell and Anderson have combined for 20 goals.

Anyway, point is that it is a highly unrealistic expectation. Taranto in particular has actually been hitting the scoreboard quite regularly.

 

[GoTigers2015]

Seth Campbell a rookie but contract ends in 2029? that cant be right can it?

He will be elevated for next season, but contracted until 2029

 

[Never 9th]

Blight was worth keeping in my opinion. He’s worth a list spot in a really diluted comp and good back up when some of our our young defenders break down again….

It probably comes down to what he and his manager wanted for him, which I presume would've been greater security and a secure, regular spot in the senior team... which we couldn't guarantee, given our depth.

I too would've of loved him for depth.. but that's the problem, he doesn't wanna be depth.

So WC he goes I guess..

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Logical cuts.
Koschi never really stood out.
Blight was a mid-season rookie.

 

[GoTigers2015]

Five players now out of contract

 

[chriso11]

Kozi must have come to an agreement with the club, because I'm pretty sure we signed him to a 3-year contract expiring 2026? Perhaps we have paid him out.

If we did, then that’s the kind of hard decision I like to see from the club. Kozi was no good and there was no advantage in playing him over one fo the young talls so the delisting is logical. Really, the only baffling question is where was that clear thinking when we gave Ryan a 3 year deal

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Haven’t seen anything mentioned about a 3 year deal for Kozi when we signed him

 

[sregit]

Broad, Lynch and Prestia all due to go next year.

But looking at the list build, there’s more balance to it.

Pick 2, Pick 3, Kellaway and Rosas(maybe) all due to come in with Seth Campbell moving onto the main list.

Doesn’t look like a lot else is planned.

Tyler Young is a very interesting proposition. Like to keep, but could we balance the list even more with a young midfielder for him?

I think the club is waiting to see if there is any offers/trades for players before we delist anymore. I can see one more delisting happening at least. Pick 2,3, Kellaway, upgrade Seth, trade 1 or 2 in. Rosas/Buttler.
Think Dow, Sonsie, Smith are candidates for delisting. Possibly a PSD pick/ train on. Possibly a late speculation pick.

 

[TheOptimum18]

Yes there is evidence. For example, average centre clearances per ball up for games later in the year. Hotton had 3 times the clearances per ball up.

Taranto averaged 0.73 goals per game in 2025. He kicked 15 in total. 3 of those were in a game when he played forward. So its 12 goals from 20 games playing as a mid.

Hopper just 6 goals from 23 games or about 0.27 per game.

So our two front line midfielders kicked a combined 18 goals for the year when playing in the midfield. We need about 45 to 50 combined from both.

We lack goal kicking midfielders and given they are on the most money and probably our most senior mids they need to be doing way more and running forward (and back).

Of all players to have played 70% or more CBAs, Tim Taranto ranks 5th for goals kicked across the season.

Isaac Heeney ranks first with 37 goals, with a large amount of time playing forward.
Ed Richads ranks second with 22 goals, who does get goals bursting from stoppages and playing as a genuine midfielder.
Jordan Dawson ranks third with 17 goals, but has also been played as a forward in various games and game states.
Nick Daicos ranks fourth with 16 goals, but played all over the ground across the season.

All these four players didn't play over 75% of CBAs, whereas Taranto played in 81%.

 

[docko911]

Agree but not taking Sam Davidson at last year's MSD when we had a spot after taking Blight and Gray was perplexing ... was only beaten for AFLs best young player award (by a 28yo lol)

This was one of the stranger decisions as we now sit in a position needing a winger or two. The only thing I can think of is that we didn’t know all of Baker, Bolton etc. were leaving.

 

[RockJobster0312]

This was one of the stranger decisions as we now sit in a position needing a winger or two. The only thing I can think of is that we didn’t know all of Baker, Bolton etc. were leaving.

The context with the Sam Davidson non-selection is important.

At the time we had contract offers in front of Baker, Graham, Pickett and Dusty, with Bolton and Rioli both under contract (so no guarantee to trade). The flow on effect if 1-2 of those re-signed in terms of list spots was real; especially noting that we already had a significant draft hand and you can only take the number of picks to a draft as open list spots.

We had nominated three open spots before the draft, so it was contemplated that three players could be taken; but that clearly there was only a collection of players that would justify the risk to the primary list to take. Davidson wasn’t one of those obviously

I also don’t think Davidson had shown anything up to that point to have confidence as a winger at any level let alone AFL level. Nothing I’ve seen of him at the Dogs at AFL level makes me think he’d be the long term solution at a wing either. Had a few good games but a lot of bad ones. Think ideally he’s a HFF/ third tall type, which noting our draft last year isn’t of a dire need.

 

[Rich01]

I doubt that. He's not going to get any quicker. But they do need a tall lock down, hence their interest in Young, so he may might get a gig. He is a very good mark so it's not like he's got nothing to offer.

Have you watched Brock and Edwards?
Even with his lack of pace Jacob has got them well covered.

They will be gushing over his contested marking while ignoring his opponent scoring off him. Hell play the McGovern role.

 

[Grrr]

The context with the Sam Davidson non-selection is important.

At the time we had contract offers in front of Baker, Graham, Pickett and Dusty, with Bolton and Rioli both under contract (so no guarantee to trade). The flow on effect if 1-2 of those re-signed in terms of list spots was real; especially noting that we already had a significant draft hand and you can only take the number of picks to a draft as open list spots.

We had nominated three open spots before the draft, so it was contemplated that three players could be taken; but that clearly there was only a collection of players that would justify the risk to the primary list to take. Davidson wasn’t one of those obviously

I also don’t think Davidson had shown anything up to that point to have confidence as a winger at any level let alone AFL level. Nothing I’ve seen of him at the Dogs at AFL level makes me think he’d be the long term solution at a wing either. Had a few good games but a lot of bad ones. Think ideally he’s a HFF/ third tall type, which noting our draft last year isn’t of a dire need.

Yes Davidson has been amped up somewhat. Had a couple of cracking games, one against us, but also had 12 games of 15 possessions or under. Not horrible but far from cemented.

 

[docko911]

Only need 4 rookies. AI reckons 2 senior listed players can be nominated as rookies. Rookies base salary doesn’t count to the cap (think it used to be 50%). It wouldn’t surprise me if we reduce our numbers on the rookie list to hit the cap floor.

All our new contracts must have been front-loaded or I have no idea how we hit the cap floor.

The salary cap is $18.29m next year. Base payment for non-rookie/draftees is $150k + $5k match payments.

Our 2024 and 2025 draftees earnings will vary but will likely land at an average of around 200-250k per player. For example, Trainor will have a base salary of $120k + $55k for playing more than 18 games. Alger on the other hand will have a base on $135k. + 5k match payments.

Our top 2 draftees this year (if in top 10) will get a base of $145k.

If we end up with 11 first and second year players on the list and they play, on average, 15 games next year, they will cost us around $2.5m salary cap space. That means the remaining 31 players on our can be paid just over $500k each for us to hit the salary cap, or $480k to hit the salary cap floor.

Gray, Green, Lefau, Fawcett, Trezise, McAuliffe, Clarke, Gibcus, MRJ, Ryan + any of Smith, Sonsie and Dow we keep will probably average out under $250k next year. That’s probably an overestimate too as the total number of match payments is unlikely to be that high across lower earners and 1st/2nd year draftees.

This will leave us with our top 20 players needing to average at least $600k just to meet the cap floor. Balta, Taranto and Hopper are probably the only ones known to be earning more than that amount, maybe Nank, or Vlastuin and Short if their contracts were backloaded. You would have to think Lynch and Prestia extensions were no more than $500k, Prestia probably less. The rest are unlikely to be over $500k.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we were $2-3m under the salary cap floor without front loading contracts. I imagine if we want to keep Young it will be no issue as we can front load any excess.

 

[Ballin]

The context with the Sam Davidson non-selection is important.

At the time we had contract offers in front of Baker, Graham, Pickett and Dusty, with Bolton and Rioli both under contract (so no guarantee to trade). The flow on effect if 1-2 of those re-signed in terms of list spots was real; especially noting that we already had a significant draft hand and you can only take the number of picks to a draft as open list spots.

We had nominated three open spots before the draft, so it was contemplated that three players could be taken; but that clearly there was only a collection of players that would justify the risk to the primary list to take. Davidson wasn’t one of those obviously

I also don’t think Davidson had shown anything up to that point to have confidence as a winger at any level let alone AFL level. Nothing I’ve seen of him at the Dogs at AFL level makes me think he’d be the long term solution at a wing either. Had a few good games but a lot of bad ones. Think ideally he’s a HFF/ third tall type, which noting our draft last year isn’t of a dire need.

Mate ... your context is rubbish ... it was the MSD ... we had a list spot ... you can delist at the end of that year ... give me a break ... he only just lost best young player to 28yo Mannagh (only Geelong lol)

Morris VFL report each week crapped on about the running capacity of a man of Davison's size was incredible and everything about Blight showed he was too slow for AFL ... the context is that we got it wrong and took a key back when we already a plethora on the list and passed on a wing/forward where we desperately needed to inject youth

 

[THE THIN MAN]

I have highlighted some examples of Disposals vs Clangers.

Average Disposals - 15.5
Average Clangers - 2.4

Sam Davidson of the Western Bulldogs Player Profile and AFL Stats

Sam Davidson of the Western Bulldogs profile and AFL statistics.

www.footywire.com

 

[RockJobster0312]

Mate ... your context is rubbish ... it was the MSD ... we had a list spot ... you can delist at the end of that year ... give me a break ... he only just lost best young player to 28yo Mannagh (only Geelong lol)

Morris VFL report each week crapped on about the running capacity of a man of Davison's size was incredible and everything about Blight showed he was too slow for AFL ... the context is that we got it wrong and took a key back when we already a plethora on the list and passed on a wing/forward where we desperately needed to inject youth

Context given was all correct. Argue the opinion sure, but it wasn’t ‘rubbish’.

But to go through your points:

Firstly do you realise how many players in MSD history are delisted after their first six months? It’s less than 5% Teams are picking players for a longer term. We have taken seven players through the MSD in its history, all of them got at least 18 months. Toce said as much post MSD about their philosophy. We were never delisting at the end of the year. Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

Secondly the fact that you are quoting the ‘young player award’ as some form of positive is itself rubbish. The fact that they selected a 28 year old second year player is all you need to know about the validity of the award.

Thirdly, point to me where there was anything about Blight being ‘to slow for AFL’ before the MSD? The fact that he was playing for Peel Thunder and was one of their best players including the aligned Freo players shows that there was more than enough evidence for being able to compete at the AFL level.

You say injecting youth? The age difference between Blight and Davidson is one day, and Davidson is older.

You say the ‘context is we got it wrong’? That is not context. That is opinion based on hindsight.

No issues if you thought that Davidson should have been the pick over Blight or Grey. I didn’t at the time, and personally have no issues with either ahead of Davidson (at the time, Payne, Blight and Hutchinson were the universal 1-3 players in the MSD) but you can’t disregard the actual impact of using a third pick on an uncertain list environment.

 

[baazzaa]

Last year Kosi was playing forward while Lynch was out injured.

Have you forgotten 2024 already? We literally had no key position players to pick from as they all kept getting injured

have you? he only started playing in the seniors consistently after the MSD. at the time of the MSD he was still mostly playing in the seconds. so when we picked Gray and Blight he was, at the time, a depth key-position player.

 

[_RT_]

Regarding Gibcus stupid player management by Yze

not telling him that he would be on managed minutes for the game which is standard practice even in the VFL

The shock and subsequent disappointment after being subbed out was clearly visible and then for Yze to come out and tout how much of a big part of the future of the club Gibcus, what a pedestrian effort.

The excuse he gave in the presser was he could not live with himself if Gibcus got injured in the last half of the game.

Seriously that tells this young player you have no confidence in his body with a player that was feeling no symptoms or injury awareness. You cannot coach if you are scared of shadows Yze and projecting some type of Munchausen syndrome by proxy is not great for you the club or the player in question.

Dunne you are a dunce if you extend this blokes contract for another year, he is still contracted one which Yze was happy to sign for three years so let it play out and see what transpires at the end of 2026. If Yze shows real promise then signing him up again it is no problem he ain't going anywhere.

So Yze tells Gibcus before the game, 'Hey we're going to only play you just on half a game then sub you out'. So Gibcus goes out there in the first half and runs himself ragged giving it everything, knowing he's only playing a half.

What happens though if another player gets hurt just before half time and needs to be subbed out instead? So you lose that player and then you've got Gibcus who is spent because he was told he was going to be getting subbed out early before the game. So in effect we're now 2 down on the bench because we need to give him longer rest breaks to manage him through the game so that he doesn't end up hurt himself given that after over 500 days out of the game his match fitness wouldn't be anywhere near capable of playing a full game yet.

The game was a dead rubber, we rewarded Josh for all the hard work he'd put in to get back and looked after him by subbing him out early so that he didn't get hurt. That's player management 101 when dealing with a player who has been dealing with long term injuries and just making their way back into the line up.

As for being disappointed with being subbed out, there isn't a player in the league that would be happy being subbed out of a game when fit. Which is part of the reason they're going get rid of the sub. I'd be disappointed if Josh didn't react the way that he did to being subbed out.

 

[Truetiger]

So Yze tells Gibcus before the game, 'Hey we're going to only play you just on half a game then sub you out'. So Gibcus goes out there in the first half and runs himself ragged giving it everything, knowing he's only playing a half.

What happens though if another player gets hurt just before half time and needs to be subbed out instead? So you lose that player and then you've got Gibcus who is spent because he was told he was going to be getting subbed out early before the game. So in effect we're now 2 down on the bench because we need to give him longer rest breaks to manage him through the game so that he doesn't end up hurt himself given that after over 500 days out of the game his match fitness wouldn't be anywhere near capable of playing a full game yet.

The game was a dead rubber, we rewarded Josh for all the hard work he'd put in to get back and looked after him by subbing him out early so that he didn't get hurt. That's player management 101 when dealing with a player who has been dealing with long term injuries and just making their way back into the line up.

As for being disappointed with being subbed out, there isn't a player in the league that would be happy being subbed out of a game when fit. Which is part of the reason they're going get rid of the sub. I'd be disappointed if Josh didn't react the way that he did to being subbed out.

Not rocket science lol. Only the smart ones can work this out

 

[Dr Tigris]

Where is the interest in Hopper coming from? Or are most people wanting him gone?

Reports that Geelong has asked the question. Whether it was a serious question, or just how are ya goin? no idea.

I don't want to lose Hopper, but reckon if the Cats would pay us enough it'd be a good deal for all.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Of all players to have played 70% or more CBAs, Tim Taranto ranks 5th for goals kicked across the season.

Isaac Heeney ranks first with 37 goals, with a large amount of time playing forward.
Ed Richads ranks second with 22 goals, who does get goals bursting from stoppages and playing as a genuine midfielder.
Jordan Dawson ranks third with 17 goals, but has also been played as a forward in various games and game states.
Nick Daicos ranks fourth with 16 goals, but played all over the ground across the season.

All these four players didn't play over 75% of CBAs, whereas Taranto played in 81%.

What!!!

TT is actually a good player!!

That's shocking. Not SHocking, but shocking to those who reckon that is you aren't the reincarnation of GAJ what are you doing playing AFL.

If we had some good transition mids our midfield would be pretty good. But then also, if aunt had a **** she'd be my uncle. So, it's our midfield mix not TT and Hopper that are the problem. I am shocked! Again.

 

[Yo Yo Ma!!!]

If it was to occur with Hopper to cats, scenarios which I guess could be in play:

Unlikely: We pay most of Hoppers wage, and get cats 1st

Likely: Cats 2nd rounder + Cats F2 (probs includes pick swap using our F3/4)

Unlikely but would like: Player swap with George Stevens + Mitch Knevitt (maybe includes a future pick of ours (F3 or F4 o or both). Gets us that midfield depth. Stevens is VFL established and hasn't had opportunity with cats midfield. Knevitt has under delivered at AFL but very reasonable VFL , after being a Pick 25, but change of scenery and opportunity, might be worth a stab as a winger. Player swaps just dont really occur now though. Also aware probs one of these two, if not both, may get delisted too, which ruins my proposal, lol

 

[guruisatiger]

Yes, he finally got rid of that f**king camel.

So who is he ****ing now?