EPL club buys an Aleague club - what does this mean for the AFL

[AliceCat]

What a beat up…Billionaires and foreign Soccer clubs have owned aleague clubs before..and if the past is our guide they have done soccer a disservice. Anyone remember Clive palmer on the Gold Coast..what about the northern Spirit and Celtic(i think thats correct)?

Footy in NSW & QLD is growing at a good steady rate esp on the GC!

 

[Gigantor]

What a beat up…Billionaires and foreign Soccer clubs have owned aleague clubs before..and if the past is our guide they have done soccer a disservice. Anyone remember Clive palmer on the Gold Coast..what about the northern Spirit and Celtic(i think thats correct)?

Footy in NSW & QLD is growing at a good steady rate esp on the GC!

I think it was Rangers who owned the Northern Spirit
but the point stands
big clubs buy small clubs, usually for their own use
it is never in the interests of the small club
Australia would have to be the only place on Earth where people would rejoice in their club being taken over by another club

 

[Freo Big Fella]

http://www.theguardian.com/football...allers-travel-far-and-wide-with-mixed-success

While the idea of living and playing on Fiji’s tropical coast or in an Asian metropolis sounds enticing, the reality can be underwhelming. Many receive modest pay cheques often below the average salary for an A-League player, that's if their pay arrives on time, and spend long afternoons playing video games or on the internet while missing family back home.

 

[harmesy 37]

Soccer has had more participation by juniors than AFL for a while now.

I would dispute or question any statistic you look at that gives you participation numbers with soccer. SBS and their chief prophet Craig Foster will quote some highly fanciful figures for soccer which are plainly ridiculous. The ABS figures are also based on small sample sizes btw.


If we are looking at just participation of males alone so as to compare apples with apples (as few females play football, but there are large numbers that play soccer) then I would be surprised if soccer was ahead of the Australian game. If it is, it would be largely due to the numbers that play the sport of soccer in Sydney.



In Victoria and Western Australia more males play Australian football than soccer. I would presume it is the same in SA, Tasmania and NT amongst male participants.

http://www.wafootball.com.au/news/2808/wa-footy-celebrates-huge-growth

“To exceed 160,000 participants is a huge milestone for WA football and sees participation now almost double cricket and more than triple soccer,” Mr Nel said.


In Queensland, Australian football is growing rapidly. The Gold Coast in particular is a strong port for the Australian game. Queensland and WA are battling it out as we speak to be the number 2 state in the country in terms of Australian football participation.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...larity-in-queensland-20130530-2nej9.html#poll

I would have no doubt that more males play soccer in NSW (and Sydney in particular) than Australian football though. That is the one state that is particularly fond of soccer.

 

[fabulousphil]

I would dispute or question any statistic you look at that gives you participation numbers with soccer. SBS and their chief prophet Craig Foster will quote some highly fanciful figures for soccer which are plainly ridiculous. The ABS figures are also based on small sample sizes btw.


If we are looking at just participation of males alone so as to compare apples with apples (as few females play football, but there are large numbers that play soccer) then I would be surprised if soccer was ahead of the Australian game. If it is, it would be largely due to the numbers that play the sport of soccer in Sydney.



In Victoria and Western Australia more males play Australian football than soccer. I would presume it is the same in SA, Tasmania and NT amongst male participants.

http://www.wafootball.com.au/news/2808/wa-footy-celebrates-huge-growth

“To exceed 160,000 participants is a huge milestone for WA football and sees participation now almost double cricket and more than triple soccer,” Mr Nel said.


In Queensland, Australian football is growing rapidly. The Gold Coast in particular is a strong port for the Australian game. Queensland and WA are battling it out as we speak to be the number 2 state in the country in terms of Australian football participation.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...larity-in-queensland-20130530-2nej9.html#poll

I would have no doubt that more males play soccer in NSW (and Sydney in particular) than Australian football though. That is the one state that is particularly fond of soccer.

I dont think there is much doubt that soccer has a huge pool of players, particuarly in NSW ( from Canberra North ), where the alternatives in winter, are really the rugbies.

Over a period of time, the little guys, or boys who mature later, have been squeezed out of RL and RU ( particuarly RL), and Australians of Anglo/Irish background have turned increasingly to soccer.

This is the demo where AF is strongest particuarly in the Eastern, Northern and NW suburbs in Sydney, i don't think that is a co-incidence.

I guess GWS is a stategic move to increase the profile of AF in WS, and give thousands of kids more options than just soccer.

 

[fabulousphil]

Bit off track, but you can guaranteee, that the AFL (when GWS is sailing a bit smoother) that the Southern Sydney suburbs and Illawarra will be targeted, and another area is Newcastle and the Central Coast, both huge population bases.

Plenty of areas to grow AF in NSW, around the Sydney basin.

Both the Illawarra and Newcastle/CC would have local AF comps far bigger than what WS had to offer.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Am i missing something here. The best players in the world are playing in Spain and Spain are the soccer world champions and European Champions, so would they have been better off buying a second tier Spanish club than buying a a club in Australia and tapping into the vast Spanish soccer talent pool?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Am i missing something here. The best players in the world are playing in Spain and Spain are the soccer world champions and European Champions, so would they have been better off buying a second tier Spanish club than buying a a club in Australia and tapping into the vast Spanish soccer talent pool?

Depends what the aim is.

Manchester City are just trying to become the worlds biggest brand. That means they're branding globally. Next year the "Heart" will be Melbourne City FC and playing in sky blue shirts. They've already done the same thing in New York and they'll do it again in Asia and possibly Africa in the years to come.

It's a branding basic, giving yourself a presence in different places.

 

[Ashton Agar]

Melbourne Heart definately aren't the most powerful club in Australia, and at least currently not the more resourced. They aren't even the most powerful A-League team. They aren't even the most powerful A-League team based in Melbourne. This will take time, Heart aren't going to all of the sudden go out and buy Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Yaya Toure etc.

 

[SdKfz 181]

Aussie kids wouldnt know and wouldnt care as they are having too much fun playing aussie rules. We ******* hate soccer in australia will never get anywhere.

Aussie kids as in white rednecks as your self? Multiculturalism.. heard of it??

 

[SdKfz 181]

Am i missing something here. The best players in the world are playing in Spain and Spain are the soccer world champions and European Champions, so would they have been better off buying a second tier Spanish club than buying a a club in Australia and tapping into the vast Spanish soccer talent pool?

That would have something to do with the ownership rules in regards to qualifying for the Champions League, owners can not have more than one club qualify for euro football.

 

[finders]

I think I read a fact that soccer is actually the number one sport for participation in juniors now, please correct me if I'm wrong because even I'm a little suprised at that fact. Soccer is growing at huge speeds but it'll be a very long time before it can even think about becoming the number one code. Collingwood is light years ahead of a club like Heart.

To say "we ******* hate soccer in Australia" is just a stupid comment.

Soccer has always had a very big youth participation but very few go on to play at the highest level and the best talent is sniffed out by the European talent scouts here pretty quickly and taken OS.

Soccer yes soccer not Australian Football (there is only ONE real Australian Football and it aint soccer) as they try to push that name on to the public will only ever be 3 football code for a very long time to come.
For most Aussies it will always be a foreign migrant game that is boring in comparison to our own game.It would be very interesting to see the ethnic origins of the memberships.

Their average crowds are still only 1/3 of the AFLs and thats with only ten teams.
Take the Victory crowds away ant the rest are very ordinary

Even on TV this season its been getting a thrashing from both the Cricket and Tennis.

A lot of people forget that soccer has been in Australia for 100 + years and is no further advanced that it was 30 years ago.
As soon as they get a couple of half decent crowds idiots like Gallop ex RL failure run off at the mouth saying they are going to be #1 soon.

When I was a school many moons ago the migrant kids were all bragging that soccer would take over and be #1- well its just as far away as ever and Man City taking over heart wont make any difference.

 

[Gigantor]

Depends what the aim is.

Manchester City are just trying to become the worlds biggest brand. That means they're branding globally. Next year the "Heart" will be Melbourne City FC and playing in sky blue shirts. They've already done the same thing in New York and they'll do it again in Asia and possibly Africa in the years to come.

It's a branding basic, giving yourself a presence in different places.

I agree its as much a branding exercise as anything else
a chance to buy club (cheaply)
change the name
change colours
do whatever they want with it
with a very eager and compliant FFA giving them free reign
but its quite hard to see how winning over a few thousand supporters in Australia helps them in anyway

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I agree its as much a branding exercise as anything else
a chance to buy club (cheaply)
change the name
change colours
do whatever they want with it
with a very eager and compliant FFA giving them free reign
but its quite hard to see how winning over a few thousand supporters in Australia helps them in anyway

They're getting a brand out there. Worldwide. Football is just the vehicle, because it opens a lot of doors globally - the main game is developing and fostering networks and business for the UAE.

This is them - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_Football_Group

 

[Gigantor]

They're getting a brand out there. Worldwide. Football is just the vehicle, because it opens a lot of doors globally - the main game is developing and fostering networks and business for the UAE.

This is them - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_Football_Group

I understand that
its notable that they originally went after SFC
to have the name Sydney would have fitted in better with their global ambitions
they opted for Melbourne Heart (because it was available)
but one can't help thinking it will be way, way, way down the food chain

 

[Smokin]

Yes the overall aim of the group is to expand their nation's reach through Football, but for perspective you need to read up on what they have done at Man City and how they have done. They have been nothing like any other billionaire who has just thrown money at players and hope for the best.

Go have a look at the academy they have set up - and how they got in bed with local government, demanding 70% of the workforce be Manchester natives etc. They really have made a point in ensuring they were embraced by the locals, as well as setting up a system which eventually will fund itself.

Id say as much as a branding exercise, New York City and Heart are vehicles to set up academies in areas with traditionally little reach by the European powerhouses. A global network of professionally run academies, keeping transfer fees and management of players internally will eventually pay itself off. UEFA is going towards a financial fair play system, so the more players they can 'lock in' from day dot of a players career will be absolutely invaluable going forward.

Interesting that the first 2 clubs they have chosen to expand to, are in salary cap leagues. Theoretically they cant just go out and buy success from day 1. This is a longer term investment.

 

[madmug]

Yes the overall aim of the group is to expand their nation's reach through Football, but for perspective you need to read up on what they have done at Man City and how they have done. They have been nothing like any other billionaire who has just thrown money at players and hope for the best.

Go have a look at the academy they have set up - and how they got in bed with local government, demanding 70% of the workforce be Manchester natives etc. They really have made a point in ensuring they were embraced by the locals, as well as setting up a system which eventually will fund itself.

Id say as much as a branding exercise, New York City and Heart are vehicles to set up academies in areas with traditionally little reach by the European powerhouses. A global network of professionally run academies, keeping transfer fees and management of players internally will eventually pay itself off. UEFA is going towards a financial fair play system, so the more players they can 'lock in' from day dot of a players career will be absolutely invaluable going forward.

Interesting that the first 2 clubs they have chosen to expand to, are in salary cap leagues. Theoretically they cant just go out and buy success from day 1. This is a longer term investment.

Long term investment for what?
So they can cherry pick talent, but pay SFA for it?
So who benefits?

 

[Roddy]

Soccer has always had a very big youth participation but very few go on to play at the highest level and the best talent is sniffed out by the European talent scouts here pretty quickly and taken OS.

Soccer yes soccer not Australian Football (there is only ONE real Australian Football and it aint soccer) as they try to push that name on to the public will only ever be 3 football code for a very long time to come.
For most Aussies it will always be a foreign migrant game that is boring in comparison to our own game.It would be very interesting to see the ethnic origins of the memberships.

Their average crowds are still only 1/3 of the AFLs and thats with only ten teams.
Take the Victory crowds away ant the rest are very ordinary

Even on TV this season its been getting a thrashing from both the Cricket and Tennis.

A lot of people forget that soccer has been in Australia for 100 + years and is no further advanced that it was 30 years ago.
As soon as they get a couple of half decent crowds idiots like Gallop ex RL failure run off at the mouth saying they are going to be #1 soon.

When I was a school many moons ago the migrant kids were all bragging that soccer would take over and be #1- well its just as far away as ever and Man City taking over heart wont make any difference.

Like I said previously, I think the sport of soccer has finally realised its place in this country. It just seems to be a few delusional soccer fans that still think and proclaim it's going to 'take over'. Everything that happens, they see it as a 'sign'. Over the years we've had 'we made the world cup, the sleeping giant is awakening!'; 'The A-League is here, it's going to take over!': 'Australia's going to get the world cup, it's going to be the biggest thing this country's ever seen'; 'Man City has taken over the Heart, it will be bigger than the AFL!'; 'It has the biggest youth participation, that means it's the biggest sport in the country!'.
Meanwhile, years and years pass and we're still waiting. And waiting.........

 

[Gigantor]

Long term investment for what?
So they can cherry pick talent, but pay SFA for it?
So who benefits?

this is one of the key points of this thread
Man City will do whatever suits them
they wont have the interests of the A-League as their primary concern
the introduction of an academy might produce a few more quality players per annum
might increase the pool of talent in australia
might
but otherwise, cant see any quantum shift here for the A-League

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Yes the overall aim of the group is to expand their nation's reach through Football, but for perspective you need to read up on what they have done at Man City and how they have done. They have been nothing like any other billionaire who has just thrown money at players and hope for the best.

Go have a look at the academy they have set up - and how they got in bed with local government, demanding 70% of the workforce be Manchester natives etc. They really have made a point in ensuring they were embraced by the locals, as well as setting up a system which eventually will fund itself.

Id say as much as a branding exercise, New York City and Heart are vehicles to set up academies in areas with traditionally little reach by the European powerhouses. A global network of professionally run academies, keeping transfer fees and management of players internally will eventually pay itself off. UEFA is going towards a financial fair play system, so the more players they can 'lock in' from day dot of a players career will be absolutely invaluable going forward.

Interesting that the first 2 clubs they have chosen to expand to, are in salary cap leagues. Theoretically they cant just go out and buy success from day 1. This is a longer term investment.

Yet they've already said they won't be poaching players from NYC and MC to Manchester without paying "appropriate" transfer fees - to themselves... lol

Transfer fees which will come under Fair Play

The Fair Play rules are a joke for clubs with the resources of Man City anyway - anytime they want to spend they can just set up dodgy sponsorship deals with their mates (hello Etihad), increasing their "revenue" to where it needs to be.

Out of all the equalisation measures that have been proposed over the years, it's no coincidence this one has attracted the least resistance from the power clubs - it doesn't affect their position, if anything it consolidates it.

 

[Smokin]

Yet they've already said they won't be poaching players from NYC and MC to Manchester without paying "appropriate" transfer fees - to themselves... lol

Transfer fees which will come under Fair Play

The Fair Play rules are a joke for clubs with the resources of Man City anyway - anytime they want to spend they can just set up dodgy sponsorship deals with their mates (hello Etihad), increasing their "revenue" to where it needs to be.

Out of all the equalisation measures that have been proposed over the years, it's no coincidence this one has attracted the least resistance from the power clubs - it doesn't affect their position, if anything it consolidates it.

Generally yes, but there has been opposition to it. I don't think anybody has a 100% handle on exactly how it will be enforced, more specifically how internal deals (such as this) can and will be policed? The Etihad deal is case in point. Can this be stopped/policed?

But regardless, there will be clubs who will do it better than others in the system - and Man City will have the resources to do it better than most.

 

[Smokin]

this is one of the key points of this thread
Man City will do whatever suits them
they wont have the interests of the A-League as their primary concern
the introduction of an academy might produce a few more quality players per annum
might increase the pool of talent in Australia
might
but otherwise, cant see any quantum shift here for the A-League

it may give better grass roots pathways, probably increase the level of the league a bit but overall, not a massive shift no.

If all the clubs start purchasing the A league clubs, maybe down the track the overall quality and interest will increase, but as it stands this has little to no effect on the AFL.

IMHO the AFL and Soccer will rarely be direct rivals. Maybe a junior level, but overall they are games played in different seasons and the A-league will only ever be a feeder league for the foreseeable century. More than likely forever.

 

[Smokin]

Long term investment for what?
So they can cherry pick talent, but pay SFA for it?
So who benefits?

Man City and the player will benefit. Nobody else has to, nor should they.

Perhaps the league will benefit a bit by players staying on for a year or two longer when otherwise they would rolled the dice in Europe?

 

[Albert Ross]

Long term investment for what?
So they can cherry pick talent, but pay SFA for it?
So who benefits?

They won't be able to cherry pick talent. Players will still need workpermits to sign for English clubs and that basically means they have to have a Euro parent to access to an EU passport - or they must already be an established international. If you were seeking out prospective young players for their youth team they would have bought Western Sydney were the players are.

 

[Gigantor]

They won't be able to cherry pick talent. Players will still need workpermits to sign for English clubs and that basically means they have to have a Euro parent to access to an EU passport - or they must already be an established international. If you were seeking out prospective young players for their youth team they would have bought Western Sydney were the players are.

you touch on one attraction of an EPL club owning an A-League club
about 40% of the population has easy access to European passports
this puts the A-League at a distinct advantage to the rest of Asia