Essendon

[Kane McGoodwin]

IN: Biglands, S Stevens, Schuback
OUT: Hudson, Bock, Bode

F: Edwards, Welsh, Johncock
HF: Carey, McGregor, Jericho
C: Burton, Ricciuto, Doughty
HB: Massie, Perrie, Mattner
B: Hentschel, Bassett, Begley
R: Clarke, Stenglein, McLeod
I: Biglands, S Stevens, Schuback, Gallagher
E: Hudson, Bock,Bode

 

[go team]

Originally posted by spindoctor
I think if you compared the line-ups Adelaide would come out ahead.

no one thus far have seemed to explain why?

The Essendon's back six have an edge in experience and talent.. Welsh, Fletcher, Lucas and Wellman are all A-Grade defenders...
Granted Adelaide's defence has probably have had less kicked against them on average this year (alot of this would have to do with the bombers getting thrashed first round without most of their back six)

Midfield and through the centre pretty much break even..
Ricciuto, McLeod are superstarts, Burton is a champ, and Clarke is a quality ruckman. Very impressive. Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson & James Hird are quality footballers. You'd be hard pressed to find somone that would rate the bomber midfield superior, or for that matter even rate the bomber midfield at all, but for the crap the Essendon midfield get, they are ahead of the crows in total disposals and contested ball gets in 2004. The Hille and Allan ruck combo get better and better every week.. and when comparing the stats on clearances both teams break about even, with Essendon winning more centre bounce and the crows taking more away from the throw ins.. 50/50

Essendon seem to be more dangerous up foward than the crows: Matty Lloyd is one of the premier full fowards in the comp, more importantly other bombers are kicking goals this year.. Essendon's top four goal kickers have kicked around 10 or so more goals than the crows top four goal kickers in 2004..
Both teams have had equal inside 50s and marks inside 50s, yet the Essendon foward line have a superior conversion rate.

to top it all off, according to the pro-stats website: http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/
The bombers have the edge in 1%ers & have less handling errors

After all that, I'd say on paper (and keep in mind i'm extremely biased and know little about the crows), the essendon line up has an edge in experience and talent..

Now i'm not saying this guarantees victory..

Originally posted by spindoctor
Of course, whether they play to the talent of their respective line-ups is another matter altogether.

but to me, the only thing going for Adelaide is that they are

Originally posted by spindoctor
backing up the big Showdown win against an Essendon team that is an awful Footy Park (I refuse to call it AAMI Stadium) player.

 

[MaccasNeighbour]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
When he is firing he is by far our best forward and one of the best in the AFL

Surely you can't be serious about this comment?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

go team, don't forget that Essendon have the edge in umpiring frees too...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by MaccasNeighbour
Surely you can't be serious about this comment?

Welsh is our best forward when on-song. Sadly he is badly out of tune at the moment.

 

[go team]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
go team, don't forget that Essendon have the edge in umpiring frees too...

and total umpire payments too... i wonder if that contributes to our salary cap

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by MaccasNeighbour
Surely you can't be serious about this comment?

I am dead serious about that comment. Welsh at his best is our best forward by a fair way and only one capable of kicking 50 goals in the year. (Remember Burton is playing on the wing). Just dig up tapes of Welshy in first 10 rounds of 2002 season before injuries struck. You will realise how much of a gun the bloke really is.

 

[Fergus]

Originally posted by go team
to top it all off, according to the pro-stats website: http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/
The bombers have the edge in 1%ers & have less handling errors

They lose credibility in their stats when they show a ladder that is clearly wrong. Adelaide are listed as being 14th with 1 win and 6 losses - incorrect.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Fergus
They lose credibility in their stats when they show a ladder that is clearly wrong. Adelaide are listed as being 14th with 1 win and 6 losses - incorrect.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by go team
no one thus far have seemed to explain why?

The Essendon's back six have an edge in experience and talent.. Welsh, Fletcher, Lucas and Wellman are all A-Grade defenders...
Granted Adelaide's defence has probably have had less kicked against them on average this year (alot of this would have to do with the bombers getting thrashed first round without most of their back six)

Midfield and through the centre pretty much break even..
Ricciuto, McLeod are superstarts, Burton is a champ, and Clarke is a quality ruckman. Very impressive. Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson & James Hird are quality footballers. You'd be hard pressed to find somone that would rate the bomber midfield superior, or for that matter even rate the bomber midfield at all, but for the crap the Essendon midfield get, they are ahead of the crows in total disposals and contested ball gets in 2004. The Hille and Allan ruck combo get better and better every week.. and when comparing the stats on clearances both teams break about even, with Essendon winning more centre bounce and the crows taking more away from the throw ins.. 50/50

Selective stats farming is a great hobby, isn't it?

For example, why don't you have a gander at the stats for points against Adelaide's defence versus points against bombers defence last year?

From a Crows fan POV, Adelaide's midfield would wipe the floor with Essendons midfield, as demonstrated quite vividly when these two teams met at AAMI Stadium last year.

Why don't you have a gander at the stats for ruck hitouts for Adelaide's ruck versus Essendons ?

Why don't you have a look at the head-to-head record of these two sides at AAMI ?

Essendon seem to be more dangerous up foward than the crows: Matty Lloyd is one of the premier full fowards in the comp, more importantly other bombers are kicking goals this year.. Essendon's top four goal kickers have kicked around 10 or so more goals than the crows top four goal kickers in 2004..
Both teams have had equal inside 50s and marks inside 50s, yet the Essendon foward line have a superior conversion rate.

Agree with this. The Crows have had a dismal 2004 to date. !!

Hopefully they can get better & move ahead of Essendon.

to top it all off, according to the pro-stats website: http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/
The bombers have the edge in 1%ers & have less handling errors

After all that, I'd say on paper (and keep in mind i'm extremely biased and know little about the crows), the essendon line up has an edge in experience and talent..

Now i'm not saying this guarantees victory..

but to me, the only thing going for Adelaide is that they are

If you look at all the stats, say over the past 3 years, I think you will find that Adelaide comes out consistently ahead of the bombers, but only slightly. The Crows have finished ahead of Essendon each of those years ... but only slightly.

The Crows have their fair share of talent - just that names like Ricciuto, Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards, Clarke, Stenglein, McGregor and others don't feature much in Melbourne media. Carey's name would feature more than almost any of those names, but Carey wouldn't be as important to the team. Go figure. But this is perhaps the reason why you imagine on paper the Essendon side has the edge in talent ... you are just more familiar with the Essendon names than the others.

I also find it somewhat amusing that the reason the Crows were lowly-rated in this pre-season was that the Crows were said to be too old. Now we have a visitor to the board saying his side has the edge in experience !!

The Crows have had a regrettable start to 2004 with some poor form, but maybe they have turned it around now.

Then again, maybe not. Friday will tell us.

PS: - Fletcher might be a different player in Melbourne, but here at AAMI Stadium last year he was a complete bozo. He got thrashed by welsh, and he lost the plot & nearly got himself reported. He was a sizeable factor in why Bombers lost the game.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by go team
does anyone here think adelaide can win because they are the better team?


or is it only because they are playing in adelaide?

why isn't the reverse true for an essendon win in Melbourne?
presuming this is your contention

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by go team
no one thus far have seemed to explain why?

The Essendon's back six have an edge in experience and talent.. Welsh, Fletcher, Lucas and Wellman are all A-Grade defenders...
Granted Adelaide's defence has probably have had less kicked against them on average this year (alot of this would have to do with the bombers getting thrashed first round without most of their back six)

Midfield and through the centre pretty much break even..
Ricciuto, McLeod are superstarts, Burton is a champ, and Clarke is a quality ruckman. Very impressive. Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson & James Hird are quality footballers. You'd be hard pressed to find somone that would rate the bomber midfield superior, or for that matter even rate the bomber midfield at all, but for the crap the Essendon midfield get, they are ahead of the crows in total disposals and contested ball gets in 2004. The Hille and Allan ruck combo get better and better every week.. and when comparing the stats on clearances both teams break about even, with Essendon winning more centre bounce and the crows taking more away from the throw ins.. 50/50

Essendon seem to be more dangerous up foward than the crows: Matty Lloyd is one of the premier full fowards in the comp, more importantly other bombers are kicking goals this year.. Essendon's top four goal kickers have kicked around 10 or so more goals than the crows top four goal kickers in 2004..
Both teams have had equal inside 50s and marks inside 50s, yet the Essendon foward line have a superior conversion rate.

to top it all off, according to the pro-stats website: http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/
The bombers have the edge in 1%ers & have less handling errors

After all that, I'd say on paper (and keep in mind i'm extremely biased and know little about the crows), the essendon line up has an edge in experience and talent..

Now i'm not saying this guarantees victory..



but to me, the only thing going for Adelaide is that they are

yeah, so what's your point? that even if Essendon don't win, they are the better side?????
Isn't that Collingwood logic.

 

[go team]

In regards to:

Originally posted by ok.crows
From a Crows fan POV, Adelaide's midfield would wipe the floor with Essendons midfield, as demonstrated quite vividly when these two teams met at AAMI Stadium last year.

And I'm sure that memory still haunts the likes of Dean Rioli, Jason Johnson & Joe Misiti.. they were embarrassed that night. Many said that they might as well not have bothered to turn up that night... 0 touches between the three of them. Oh, wait, they weren't playing were they..

Come to think of it, neither were Justin Murphy & Matthew Allan have made more than solid contributions thus far in 2004.
Funnily enough, Rioli, Jason Johnson & Murphy all were listed in the best for Essendon last week..

Originally posted by ok.crows
If you look at all the stats, say over the past 3 years, I think you will find that Adelaide comes out consistently ahead of the bombers, but only slightly. The Crows have finished ahead of Essendon each of those years ... but only slightly.

The Bomber side of 2003 and the Bomber side of 2004 features some different faces. If Essendon were to go unchanged this week, seven players that didn't play against the crows last year, would line up this week. I'm sure the Crows have had at least some player turnover. This game is being played in 2004.. not 2001, not 2002, heck not even 2003

Originally posted by ok.crows But this is perhaps the reason why you imagine on paper the Essendon side has the edge in talent ... you are just more familiar with the Essendon names than the others.

I'll admit i'm biased. How could i not be? I watch my club play every week.

Originally posted by ok.crows
I also find it somewhat amusing that the reason the Crows were lowly-rated in this pre-season was that the Crows were said to be too old. Now we have a visitor to the board saying his side has the edge in experience !!

Hentschel, Jericho, Hudson, Mattner, Bock... how many big games have they played in?

If it were as simple as:

Originally posted by ok.crows
Why don't you have a look at the head-to-head record of these two sides at AAMI ?

Why would Essendon bother to turn up? There's more to the game than where it is being played.

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
yeah, so what's your point? that even if Essendon don't win, they are the better side?????
Isn't that Collingwood logic.

Quite the opposite. If the crows win, sure the homeground has something to do with it, but its not the only reason why..
Besides ok.crows has anyone else (in Bigfooty or the media) bothered to explain how else the crows are going to win this week?

Originally posted by ok.crows
PS: - Fletcher might be a different player in Melbourne, but here at AAMI Stadium last year he was a complete bozo. He got thrashed by welsh, and he lost the plot & nearly got himself reported. He was a sizeable factor in why Bombers lost the game.

One game dont make a player...

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by go team
Ricciuto, McLeod are superstarts, Burton is a champ, and Clarke is a quality ruckman. Very impressive. Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson & James Hird are quality footballers. You'd be hard pressed to find somone that would rate the bomber midfield superior, or for that matter even rate the bomber midfield at all, but for the crap the Essendon midfield get, they are ahead of the crows in total disposals and contested ball gets in 2004. The Hille and Allan ruck combo get better and better every week.. and when comparing the stats on clearances both teams break about even, with Essendon winning more centre bounce and the crows taking more away from the throw ins.. 50/50"

Line them up, one by one, and you have got Hird to balance out Ricciuto (current Bronwlow medalist, club champion, All Australian and in every way except column inches in Melbourne press as good a footballer as Hird) - then all the others named for the Crows outmatch the Bombers.

If the Crows had Goodwin ready (he may or may not be) - it would be a whitewash. Without Goodwin the Crows advantage in the midfield is less clear cut, but still nowhere near 50/50.

Crows still outclass Essendon in the midfield by quite some margin.

So far, Essendon have played teams above them in Port & Saints - and lost both games. They have played Bulldogs, Collingwood, West Coast, Carlton & Sydney for wins.

Adelaide has played & lost to Saints, Brisbane, Freo (in Perth), Kangaroos & Geelong. The latter two games weren't too good, but the other losses were at least reasonably competitive games - and all aginst teams better than Essendon.

Besides, this year at AAMI Stadium (where Friday nights match is to be played) - Port smashed Essendon but lost to the Crows.

I'm not saying that Friday nights game will be an easy game to pick - rather I am saying that your apparent idea that Essendon are the stronger side right now is just an illusion, and that the Crows aren't nearly as down as they have been painted to be. Given this and the fact that the game is at AAMI Stadium where Essendon struggle & the real comparison of the sides on paper - I'm saying that it will be one heck of a lot closer than you seem to think it will be.

Essendon has the better attack {edit here} and arguably better recent form. Crows have the better defence, and a significantly better midfield, and a significant home ground advantage.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by go team


Quite the opposite. If the crows win, sure the homeground has something to do with it, but its not the only reason why..
Besides ok.crows has anyone else (in Bigfooty or the media) bothered to explain how else the crows are going to win this week?

1. the game is not played on the page. if you want to know how the game pans out, watch it.
2. what is it that makes Essendon the worse travelling team in the league, why don't you tell us? what does happen to the precious darlings away from melbourne

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by go team

Quite the opposite. If the crows win, sure the homeground has something to do with it, but its not the only reason why..
Besides ok.crows has anyone else (in Bigfooty or the media) bothered to explain how else the crows are going to win this week?

Wet conditions might have something to do with it too. The Crows are a better side than Essendon at Football Park. Some teams play different arenas better than others (eg. Saint like playing at the Dome, whereas Brisbane don't).

 

[bomberbilly]

all these stats and past results are lovely. on the night it all means jack ****. go bombers!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by bomberbilly
all these stats and past results are lovely. on the night it all means jack ****. go bombers!

Couldn't have said it better. I agree with almonst everything you said. Go Crows

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by bomberbilly
all these stats and past results are lovely. on the night it all means jack ****. go bombers!

Yep that's when it counts.


Big Big danger game for the Crows.

Bombers are flying at the moment granted their record out of Vic has not been all that flash lately but if we are down just 5% on the intensity we showed last week then Sheedy has enough options on his board to make us pay dearly.

As good a player as Hird is we will have more to worry about in keeping Lloyd down to a manageable bag of goals than anything else that's why if fit i would have Nigel back in the side quick smart.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by noddy
Yep that's when it counts.


Big Big danger game for the Crows.

Bombers are flying at the moment granted their record out of Vic has not been all that flash lately but if we are down just 5% on the intensity we showed last week then Sheedy has enough options on his board to make us pay dearly.

As good a player as Hird is we will have more to worry about in keeping Lloyd down to a manageable bag of goals than anything else that's why if fit i would have Nigel back in the side quick smart.

Spot on noddy.

Lloyd is a danger man but I am hoping that wet weather will limit him somewhat. Traditionally, essendon are not a very good side in wet weather. Hird, Lloyd and Jason Johnson are the players that we must stop. Stop or negate then and we go a long way to winning the game.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Spot on noddy.

Lloyd is a danger man but I am hoping that wet weather will limit him somewhat. Traditionally, essendon are not a very good side in wet weather. Hird, Lloyd and Jason Johnson are the players that we must stop. Stop or negate then and we go a long way to winning the game.

It was p***ing it down in round 15 last year, and a number of Essendon's ball players, just didn't fancy the tough stuff in the wet.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
It was p***ing it down in round 15 last year, and a number of Essendon's ball players, just didn't fancy the tough stuff in the wet.

Bingo.

Went and saw Essendon get bollocked by the Power in Rnd 1... showered on and off all day and as such the Bomber midfield never took off.

 

[go team]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
It was p***ing it down in round 15 last year, and a number of Essendon's ball players, just didn't fancy the tough stuff in the wet.

well most of the current midfield weren't playing that night, so they'd have nothing to worry about..

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by go team
well most of the current midfield weren't playing that night, so they'd have nothing to worry about..

Absolute crap.

Mark Johnson (not currently playing in the mid-field) and the super speedster Mark Mercuri weren't playing. Every other one of your big name players in the mid-field played.

Go check your records.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by go team
well most of the current midfield weren't playing that night, so they'd have nothing to worry about..

Please tell me who was missing apart from Mark Johnson. All of your 3 guns were playing in Lloyd, Hird and Fletcher and your midfielder was full strength bar MJ. Please don't say that Murphy was missing because he has to be most overrated dud going around.