Experience v Age - Hawks, Pies & Crows to Contend, Eagles to slide..

[BBC1967]

Are you that senile that you need someone to tell you?

You need someone to tell you LOST! I accept you towelled up Tiges however, you LOST no moral victory no what if - of if only .....LOST

 

[KissKiss]

It's the opposite end of the ladder but the lions board have been watching how our game day 22 stacks up in age and experience each week against the opposition. Generally comes true that we are in games a lot more when we are close in age/experience (not much sample size of us being older) but the other factor is the distribution. Too many guys sub 10, 25 and 50 games can really hurt.

 

[DrEvil_]

They were predicted spoon.

We are getting older (Hurn and Kennedy), but players like Yeo, Gaff, Mcgovern, Shuey, Redden have years left in the tank, so it's hardly going to have any impact in 2019.

efa

 

[The Filth]

We admit it - as for you guys.....more excuses!!!! Led for all but eight minutes....you were behind at final siren and that's what counts. What alternative universe do some Pies supporters come from?

8 minutes is not an excuse...just a stat/fact
Eagles were in front when it counted - deserved premiers.
More concerned about your fixation on Collingwood. Your butt must still be hurting LOL.

 

[The Filth]

You need someone to tell you LOST! I accept you towelled up Tiges however, you LOST no moral victory no what if - of if only .....LOST

I know we lost...you were the one asking about the Grand Final..not me! Didn't know the result?
Disrepectful to the Eagles BTW who WON it.
Probably coz you expected your team to be in it along with all the other arrogant Tigers supporters haha.
Unhealthy fixation on the Pies - love it.
Still have gastro or is it now just verbal diarrhea you suffer from?
Yet another thread - all about salty Richmond supporters unsuccessfully seeking to inflict pain on Pies supporters because they can't stand the way the Tigers went out last year. Yawn. Predictable BS. Suck it up. Get back on thread princess

 

[adammania9]

Did you win a premiership????

Did you?

 

[BBC1967]

Did you?

2017

 

[adammania9]

2017

Wow congratulations

2010 I guess

 

[Mr B]

That's it. History says you'll be overrated as well, but it's possible to go back to back.

Not according to Champion Data, who tell us that West Coast has the 11th best list heading into 2019.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Not according to Champion Data, who tell us that West Coast has the 11th best list heading into 2019.

Dude

You won the flag, seriously.

 

[Lsta062]

LOL...we had a tougher fixture than richmond and still won the GF.

That’s because the tough fixture is in relation to the H&A season, which you did not beat us in as Richmond were the minor premiers.

 

[Farang83150]

That’s because the tough fixture is in relation to the H&A season, which you did not beat us in as Richmond were the minor premiers.

lol...right....

 

[Lsta062]

lol...right....

Yeah.... right....

 

[Carringbush2010]

Once upon a time the team with the best players nearly always won, but with the different structures and game-plans that's not always the case now. You still need talent, but the game has changed immensely.

And why has the game changed from a transition style in Hawth free flow to pressure systems like the dogs and tigs? Because coaching panels have been very good at building a game plan around the strengths of the individuals on their lists.

Agreed WC are an elegant transition team but it is still the outlier, 3 of the top 4 are not so personnel reliant for their game style like WC are. That's not having a dig at wc either. On the contrary I rate their list to pull it off especially in hostile environments of pressure teams like the Pies, Dees and Tiges.

Point is the game just doesn't evolve automatically, it takes think tanks like Bevo, Dimma, Simmo and their surrounding think tanks (coaching panels) to do so - usually it's because what strengths their lists possess.

As far as the thread title is concerned, I think it's continuity in your list that is of most importance (games played together - not necessarily age) i:e the op mentioned that the giants may break their duck next season. Fair call. The core of that group has had 7 seasons together and at some point the dam wall will bust................ or less likely disappointingly not bare fruit of what should.

 

[Freomaniac]

Output >>>>>>>> old list>experienced list>young list.

That's all that matters.

The teams with the best overall output are the best sides in it, regardless of what arbitrary age ruling Bigfooty posters want to put in place.

Nope this is big footy.

Its all about the youf apparently

 

[juss]

The Eagles and Pies will s**t all over the Hawks in 2019. Unsure about the Crows, have them from 7th-11th.

 

[Obeanie1]

Nope, they weren't lucky.

That said, the last few years the top teams are the worst I can remember in 40 years. From an individual or "star" perspective anyway.

Once upon a time the team with the best players nearly always won, but with the different structures and game-plans that's not always the case now. You still need talent, but the game has changed immensely.

I think it's harder for individuals to showcase their sheer brilliance. Not impossible, but harder.

The competition is very close with no dominant team/s, which is historically quite new.

Another way of looking at it is teams of stars are winning less and star teams are winning more often.

With the amount of development in junior football, coaching, sports science and nutrition its a squad mentality now. Lessor players have so much more support to get them to improve.

Where as in the past the naturally gifted with work ethic shone above the pack.

I think its great.

 

[Trav 20]

Another way of looking at it is teams of stars are winning less and star teams are winning more often.

With the amount of development in junior football, coaching, sports science and nutrition its a squad mentality now. Lessor players have so much more support to get them to improve.

Where as in the past the naturally gifted with work ethic shone about the pack.

I think its great.

I agree with that.

Footy has definitely changed.

But if you can orchestrate some individual stars, as well as a high calibre game plan, all the better.

 

[Football Tragic]

Another way of looking at it is teams of stars are winning less and star teams are winning more often.

With the amount of development in junior football, coaching, sports science and nutrition its a squad mentality now. Lessor players have so much more support to get them to improve.

Where as in the past the naturally gifted with work ethic shone about the pack.

I think its great.

In the past there was more space and freedom for star players to shine. The elite would shine from the opening bounce to the final siren. In today's game, games are tight and space/time a rarity but it's often the stars that still break the deadlock and step up at crucial time. So why a champion team always beat a team of champions, when you have a close contest, the cream always rises to the top. This is also why teams that have had more time together, know when to get the ball into the players hands who will win the game for them.

 

[footy75]

I am a big believer that the amount of games a team has been able to get into players on average is a far greater indicator of potential success than the age of a list. Team and game plan consistency is a far stronger measure in my option, than age. So, while some team have far older lists, if they have not had the number of games due to form, injury or opportunity, then typically they will not be a strong a group.

Of course skill, desire and chance all play their part but just purely looking at lists based on age and experience, the experience (game played) is a far better indicator of potential in my opinion than average age.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/oldest-youngest-most-experienced-club-lists-compared

So based on this - West Coast will slide and the Hawks, Adelaide & Pies should be contending or at least playing deep into September....

.....then there's Tigers who have a very young list with plenty of experience! Watch out!!

 

[tommyk72]

In the past there was more space and freedom for star players to shine. The elite would shine from the opening bounce to the final siren. In today's game, games are tight and space/time a rarity but it's often the stars that still break the deadlock and step up at crucial time. So why a champion team always beat a team of champions, when you have a close contest, the cream always rises to the top. This is also why teams that have had more time together, know when to get the ball into the players hands who will win the game for them.

Or, the ones that have different traits are becoming the "stars". I know the opinion on Tom Mitchell varies, but his ability to just stay in the game from beginning to end is a "star" quality in itself. Does it regardless of taggers and scraggers. He doesn't have the traditional start traits, but has developed a characteristic to make him the top player in that category in the league. I'll be interested in how he backs up after the AC. In theory it shouldn't change his game, but will be interesting.

I think stars are still needed to win a lot of 1 on 1 football. The ability to beat your opponent and create something 90%+ of the time you get the ball, yet still do your job in the team, is an absolutely invaluable quality.

 

[liz]

Or, the ones that have different traits are becoming the "stars". I know the opinion on Tom Mitchell varies, but his ability to just stay in the game from beginning to end is a "star" quality in itself. Does it regardless of taggers and scraggers. He doesn't have the traditional start traits, but has developed a characteristic to make him the top player in that category in the league. I'll be interested in how he backs up after the AC. In theory it shouldn't change his game, but will be interesting.

There’s hardly anything new about Mitchell’s skill set. If anything, I’d say he’s the archetype of the old fashioned kind of onballer.

 

[Arr0w]

Interesting that people think WC will slide. Every year, you see the same predictions, yet they have won more games than any other side in the last 4 years. They will be top 4 again next year

 

[Freomaniac]

It surprises me how low we (Saints) are on games played.

It's almost like we haven't been playing any kids the last 5 years when it feels like that's all we've been doing.

Gotta keep grinding away I guess. Games into all our top draft picks gonna be critical.

So much for saint kildas youth policy.....

Post Ross Lyon era, Saints have been playing youth since the start of 2012.

Im curious what the saints picked up from 2012-14. Paddy McCartin is the epitome of the saints recruiting in the last 6 years.

You got all these 1st round picks and they have been used on talented players that are injury prone or or dud kids.

those picks from 2012-14 should all be 22-25 year old blokes tat should be hitting their prime.

 

[Cuzz09]

Interesting that people think WC will slide. Every year, you see the same predictions, yet they have won more games than any other side in the last 4 years. They will be top 4 again next year

I didn't realise that stat until after the GF. Pretty great stat.