Society/Culture Feminism - 2017 Thread - Pt II

[Jello_B]

If risky fantasies are sold by a publication that at the same time publishes fantasy-as-real as going bad (with voices of other women in support), then maybe women need to recalibrate their expectations and desires around sex just as much as men.

Maybe hookup culture leaves people feeling unfulfilled. Maybe celebrities who have their own show on Netflix are just as awkward and bad at sex as some bloke you meet in a bar. Maybe some of the rituals around courtship that existed for hundreds of years served as useful guardrails against these kinds of disappointment, and shouldn't have been trashed in the name of 'liberation'.

I’m trying hard to interpret this honestly. Are you saying that women who go round banging blokes (‘sluts’) are realising that it’s not all that good, and that a more traditional courtship has existed and promoted society for a reason. Women are now seeking more extreme sexual activities, because they are not getting the satisfaction from just banging random blokes, and that these extreme activities are potentially leading to a break down in the ‘no’, ‘yes’ line.

 

[RobbieK]

I employed logical extension as it applies to the limited inferences of written communication.

- I support Petersons stand against postmodernism and it's cheap political stunts.
- Unless you are living on Mars you should be aware that Peterson is a combatant against state mechanisms that seek to control language.
- The interview in question basically consists of this topic.
- RK entered the discussion with an opposing view by challenging my reasoning.
- If RK was not referring to the Peterson interview based upon my reply to that exact thing them maybe their communication skills need a brush up.

There's nothing illogical about how the rest played out..

The issue is that you assumed that my argument, that it was socially desirable and necessary for certain forms of intolerant speech to be discouraged, necessitated state intervention. It doesn't. I never said that it did. I chose a quote that I like because it is all about the open "society", not the open state.

When I asked you for evidence to justify this assumption you didn't provide it and then got shitty at me for asking for it, as if I was the one with the problem.

 

[RobbieK]

I Ihould have taken my own advice and first established the ground rules that we are mature adults and offending was allowed.

If you ever want to discuss something with me again, feel free to offend.

I promise I won't utilise it as a fallback position if my arguments fall over.

I have no problem being offended. It just isn't a style of conversation that I find to be very productive. If you had spent a little less time with the insults and a little more time just responding to what I had written rather than the assumptions you made about what I was saying then I think the exchange would have gone better for everyone.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The issue is that you assumed that my argument, that it was socially desirable and necessary for certain forms of intolerant speech to be discouraged, necessitated state intervention.

Correct. I assumed your response in relation to my response.

This is generally how people communicate on the internet.

Let me take you back to the quote you utilised to respond.

He dismantled the "offense" defence with ease.

This is how to confront postmodernism. Acknowledge the "SJWs" and your right to offend as part of mature intelligent discussion, establish this as an agreement, and the majority of their defences are instantly dismantled.

"He" being Peterson in that clip. You chose an opposing view and things developed from there.

I have no problem being offended.

Yes you do, or you wouldn't raise it on more than one occasion.

The fact that you are offended by something is completely irrelevant in an adult conversation.

How would the world function if the barometer for discussion was set by peoples wide ranging offense beliefs? It would be a freaking nightmare. The sort of nightmare that Peterson is fighting.

 

[King Brown]

I’m trying hard to interpret this honestly. Are you saying that women who go round banging blokes (‘sluts’) are realising that it’s not all that good, and that a more traditional courtship has existed and promoted society for a reason. Women are now seeking more extreme sexual activities, because they are not getting the satisfaction from just banging random blokes, and that these extreme activities are potentially leading to a break down in the ‘no’, ‘yes’ line.

No.

The discussion both in and since the Ansari piece is that women are not only afraid of violent male sexual assault, but that they find modern men's sexual behaviour in general deeply unsatisfying. This is a generation of women that has been sold, in publications like Babe, that their sexual appetites are no different to men's and they should have completely liberal attitudes towards sex.

It might be time for some reflection about what young women are sold in the media about sex - whether its true, whether it's what they really want. Promoting rape fantasies would instead seem like doubling down on the madness and taking it to a dangerous extreme.

 

[cartwright]

No.

The discussion both in and since the Ansari piece is that women are not only afraid of violent male sexual assault, but that they find modern men's sexual behaviour in general deeply unsatisfying.

who is they? Those who enjoy BDSM?

This is a generation of women that has been sold, in publications like Babe, that their sexual appetites are no different to men's and they should have completely liberal attitudes towards sex.

Women are just as sexual as men. What is your problem?

It might be time for some reflection about what young women are sold in the media about sex - whether its true, whether it's what they really want. Promoting rape fantasies would instead seem like doubling down on the madness and taking it to a dangerous extreme.

Key word: Fantasy.

Jesus christ, this needs to be explained?!

 

[King Brown]

Women are just as sexual as men. What is your problem?

They aren't. That's the issue. In general they want sex less, and regret the sex they do have more often.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...women-regret-men-regret-not-having-evolution/

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

They aren't. That's the issue. In general they want sex less, and regret the sex they do have more often.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...women-regret-men-regret-not-having-evolution/

Can you connect this to rape or sexual assault though?

 

[Snake_Baker]

They aren't. That's the issue. In general they want sex less, and regret the sex they do have more often.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...women-regret-men-regret-not-having-evolution/

When you set aside the effect of testosterone cycles in male development, there is very little difference overall.

As for regret, we all have that.

If women currently have a greater propensity for regret, then I think it will evaporate, as women as a whole move beyond the Madonna complex.

 

[Jello_B]

Can you connect this to rape or sexual assault though?

He shouldn’t have to. He was responding to a comment.

 

[Jello_B]

No.

The discussion both in and since the Ansari piece is that women are not only afraid of violent male sexual assault, but that they find modern men's sexual behaviour in general deeply unsatisfying. This is a generation of women that has been sold, in publications like Babe, that their sexual appetites are no different to men's and they should have completely liberal attitudes towards sex.

It might be time for some reflection about what young women are sold in the media about sex - whether its true, whether it's what they really want. Promoting rape fantasies would instead seem like doubling down on the madness and taking it to a dangerous extreme.

How is this different than what I said. I said that females are realising that men style sexual activity isn’t that satisfying. Please explain what you disagree with what I said.

 

[King Brown]

When you set aside the effect of testosterone cycles in male development, there is very little difference overall.

As for regret, we all have that.

If women currently have a greater propensity for regret, then I think it will evaporate, as women as a whole move beyond the Madonna complex.

It's not just testosterone - there's little evolutionary payoff for women to desire sex as much as men do. A woman can only conceive one child per year, men can conceive infinite.

 

[King Brown]

How is this different than what I said. I said that females are realising that men style sexual activity isn’t that satisfying. Please explain what you disagree with what I said.

I disagreed with this:

Women are now seeking more extreme sexual activities, because they are not getting the satisfaction from just banging random blokes, and that these extreme activities are potentially leading to a break down in the ‘no’, ‘yes’ line.​

I don't think they're seeking more extreme activities, they are being encouraged to explore them in spite of other less risky sexual fantasies being disappointing.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's not just testosterone - there's little evolutionary payoff for women to desire sex as much as men do. A woman can only conceive one child per year, men can conceive infinite.

In established relationships, there is little difference.

Gender differences in sexuality: A meta-analysis.

Oliver, Mary Beth,Hyde, Janet Shibley

Psychological Bulletin, Vol 114(1), Jul 1993, 29-51

This meta-analysis surveyed 177 usable sources that reported data on gender differences on 21 different measures of sexual attitudes and behaviors. The largest gender difference was in incidence of masturbation: Men had the greater incidence (d = .96). There was also a large gender difference in attitudes toward casual sex: Males had considerably more permissive attitudes (d = .81). There were no gender differences in attitudes toward homosexuality or in sexual satisfaction. Most other gender differences were in the small-to-moderate range. Gender differences narrowed from the 1960s to the 1980s for many variables. Chodorow's neoanalytic theory, sociobiology, social learning theory, social role theory, and script theory are discussed in relation to these findings.

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0033-2909.114.1.29

 

[King Brown]

In established relationships, there is little difference.

Gender differences in sexuality: A meta-analysis.

Oliver, Mary Beth,Hyde, Janet Shibley

Psychological Bulletin, Vol 114(1), Jul 1993, 29-51

This meta-analysis surveyed 177 usable sources that reported data on gender differences on 21 different measures of sexual attitudes and behaviors. The largest gender difference was in incidence of masturbation: Men had the greater incidence (d = .96). There was also a large gender difference in attitudes toward casual sex: Males had considerably more permissive attitudes (d = .81). There were no gender differences in attitudes toward homosexuality or in sexual satisfaction. Most other gender differences were in the small-to-moderate range. Gender differences narrowed from the 1960s to the 1980s for many variables. Chodorow's neoanalytic theory, sociobiology, social learning theory, social role theory, and script theory are discussed in relation to these findings.

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0033-2909.114.1.29

I'm not sure your point, the following sentence from the abstract backs up what I said:

There was also a large gender difference in attitudes toward casual sex: Males had considerably more permissive attitudes (d = .81).​

 

[Snake_Baker]

I'm not sure your point, the following sentence from the abstract backs up what I said:

There was also a large gender difference in attitudes toward casual sex: Males had considerably more permissive attitudes (d = .81).​

"Permissive" means that men are more likely to comply with sexual requests when they aren't in the mood for sex.

It does not mean that women are in the mood for sex on less occasions than men (testosterone factors removed)

 

[King Brown]

"Permissive" means that men are more likely to comply with sexual requests when they aren't in the mood for sex.

That's not what I understand permissive to mean, but anyway.

 

[cartwright]

They aren't. That's the issue. In general they want sex less, and regret the sex they do have more often.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...women-regret-men-regret-not-having-evolution/

This article references one night stands. I said sex. Women enjoy sex just as much as men.

Will you answer the other questions, such as "who is they"?

 

[TimmeT]

When you set aside the effect of testosterone cycles in male development, there is very little difference overall.

As for regret, we all have that.

If women currently have a greater propensity for regret, then I think it will evaporate, as women as a whole move beyond the Madonna complex.

Men get accused of bring a rapist for their regret roots.

 

[King Brown]

This article references one night stands. I said sex. Women enjoy sex just as much as men.

Are one night stands not a category of sex? Is your assertion that men enjoy sex that are not one night stands less than women do?

Or is it the case that men enjoy more types of sex than women, and therefore, more sex.

Will you answer the other questions, such as "who is they"?

I didn't see the point in that question.

 

[cartwright]

Are one night stands not a category of sex? Is your assertion that men enjoy sex that are not one night stands less than women do?

Or is it the case that men enjoy more types of sex than women, and therefore, more sex.


I didn't see the point in that question.

You didn’t see the point in clarifying who you were talking about?

The portion of the post I queried is:

No.

The discussion both in and since the Ansari piece is that women are not only afraid of violent male sexual assault, but that they find modern men's sexual behaviour in general deeply unsatisfying. This is a generation of women that has been sold, in publications like Babe, that their sexual appetites are no different to men's and they should have completely liberal attitudes towards sex.

So, you’re speaking for all women? If not, who are you referring to, exactly?

 

[Appa]

So, you’re speaking for all women? If not, who are you referring to, exactly?

Basic reading comprehension is needed to understand that statement. I'll help you out by asking you the same question on your posts so you can understand how stupid that question is.

Women enjoy sex just as much as men.

Are you saying all women? If not, who are you referring to, exactly?

Women are just as sexual as men.

Are you saying all women? If not, who are you referring to, exactly?

 

[Present Not Past]

No.

The discussion both in and since the Ansari piece is that women are not only afraid of violent male sexual assault, but that they find modern men's sexual behaviour in general deeply unsatisfying. This is a generation of women that has been sold, in publications like Babe, that their sexual appetites are no different to men's and they should have completely liberal attitudes towards sex.

It might be time for some reflection about what young women are sold in the media about sex - whether its true, whether it's what they really want. Promoting rape fantasies would instead seem like doubling down on the madness and taking it to a dangerous extreme.

Really? I think this is an over simplification. Since the introduction of the oral contraception in the 60s woman have had the ability to enjoy as much sex as their male counterparts.

 

[King Brown]

You didn’t see the point in clarifying who you were talking about?

The portion of the post I queried is:



So, you’re speaking for all women? If not, who are you referring to, exactly?

I’m not speaking for all women. If you read the sentence carefully, I’m relaying the discussion in the Ansari piece and follow up discussion from people like Jessica Valenti, Elizabeth Breunig and others.

 

[King Brown]

The issue is that you assumed that my argument, that it was socially desirable and necessary for certain forms of intolerant speech to be discouraged, necessitated state intervention. It doesn't. I never said that it did. I chose a quote that I like because it is all about the open "society", not the open state.

When I asked you for evidence to justify this assumption you didn't provide it and then got shitty at me for asking for it, as if I was the one with the problem.

An 'open society' shunning people for 'misgendering', as you advocate, is as anarchist as an Amish community is anarchist.