Forget Jacobs!! Get Giles

[Danog]

Richmond would probably take Jacobs if he was in the PSD

 

[cammo6556]

All talk girls..ill be laughing when yous cave in tommorrow at 2pm

Such a cerebral individual. Not only are you wrong, but you have trouble using the English language to express your opinion.

 

[J-Ro-20]

It is aleardy too late for us to be doing a deal with GC for Giles. We would have missed the cut off deadline for GC to sign prelisted players.

If we want Giles we would have to compete with everyone else in the draft/s. Same goes for GC from now on. To be honest im staggered that GC didnt take Giles and opted for Josh Fraser instead. Giles has heaps more upside.

I'd like to get Jacobs but am not fussed to go into the PSD for him, and take our chances there. Carlton are obviously impossible to trade with. I am not interested in a trade for Talia or to give up our pick #14. Im not even interested in a trade to swap our pick #14 for #18 with Carlton...

Carlton are not in a position to be playing hardball...

 

[cmndstab]

All talk girls..ill be laughing when yous cave in tommorrow at 2pm

All talk, hey? Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and wager an infraction against Carlton getting pick 14 in a direct swap for Jacobs?

 

[Dirty Bird]

All talk, hey? Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and wager an infraction against Carlton getting pick 14 in a direct swap for Jacobs?

change infraction to 'permaban (from the Adelaide board) for every Carlton fan who has commented on the Adelaide board about this topic' and I'll accept it on his behalf

 

[Vader]

It is aleardy too late for us to be doing a deal with GC for Giles. We would have missed the cut off deadline for GC to sign prelisted players.

Their deadline for signing uncontracted players was last Thursday. Their deadline for pre-listing players who have previously been on an AFL list or nominated for the draft isn't until Nov 30th - after the ND.

The option for doing a deal for Giles will be there until 2pm today (when trade week finishes). I doubt we'll be pursuing it though, given our obvious interest in Jacobs.

 

[Sekaj]

Richmond would probably take Jacobs if he was in the PSD

Looks like you'll be using it for Houli. If you take Jacobs, we'll have Houli.

 

[J-Ro-20]

Their deadline for signing uncontracted players was last Thursday. Their deadline for pre-listing players who have previously been on an AFL list or nominated for the draft isn't until Nov 30th - after the ND.

The option for doing a deal for Giles will be there until 2pm today (when trade week finishes). I doubt we'll be pursuing it though, given our obvious interest in Jacobs.

Ah I stand corrected. I thought that the Thursday cut off included prelisted players... Well it looks like we seriously could consider Giles then? It still could happen?? Just a few hours left to trade week now...

 

[Crowfoot]

Gold Coast 'no' to Giles

THE next stop for Sturt ruckman Jonathan Giles remains a mystery after the Gold Coast declared it was unlikely to draft him.
Rumours were rife the AFL's new club was after the former Power big-man, but football manager Marcus Ashcroft said its ruck void had been filled by Collingwood's Josh Fraser.
``We were interested in him (Giles) in the process of finding a mature-age ruckman for our young group,'' Ashcroft said.
``Jonathan (Giles), (David) Hale, (Will) Minson and Fraser were all thrown up and we went with Josh.
``The idea was to recruit a mature-age ruckman who'd been in the system for a while.''
Ashcroft said it was now unlikely the Gold Coast would need Giles to bolster its ruck stocks.
``I don't think there's a spot (at the Suns) for Jonathan,'' he said.

doh!



.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/gold-coast-no-to-giles/story-e6freckc-1225937819360

 

[dplggr47]

^will probably get picked up in the PSD by any team requiring a backup ruckman. no way Crows would pick him up, because we don't need any more ruckman.

 

[Damon_3388]

^will probably get picked up in the PSD by any team requiring a backup ruckman. no way Crows would pick him up, because we don't need any more ruckman.

Adelaide Crows players 6'4" (193cm) and above
Kurt Tippett - 201cm, 100kg (plays at Full Forward most of the time)
Sam Jacobs - 200cm, 100kg
Brad Moran - 200cm, 98kg
Ivan Maric - 198cm, 102kg
James Sellar - 196cm, 95kg
Shaun McKernan - 196cm, 94kg
James Craig - 195cm, 92kg
Scott Stevens - 195cm, 87kg (not a ruckman)
Phil Davis - 195cm, 85kg (")
Daniel Talia - 194cm, 89kg (")
Luke Thompson - 193cm, 87kg (")

(Heights and weights from 2010 AFL Prospectus)

Wouldn't you prefer to have the bigger bodied Giles (listed at 199cm and 101kg in the 2009 AFL Prospectus) as a back-up option, and let the slightly undersized guys like Sellar, McKernan and Craig preserve their bodies away from the bash-and-crash of the ruck, and develop as key position options up forward or down back instead?

 

[cmndstab]

Adelaide Crows players 6'4" (193cm) and above
Kurt Tippett - 201cm, 100kg (plays at Full Forward most of the time)
Sam Jacobs - 200cm, 100kg
Brad Moran - 200cm, 98kg
Ivan Maric - 198cm, 102kg
James Sellar - 196cm, 95kg
Shaun McKernan - 196cm, 94kg
James Craig - 195cm, 92kg
Scott Stevens - 195cm, 87kg (not a ruckman)
Phil Davis - 195cm, 85kg (")
Daniel Talia - 194cm, 89kg (")
Luke Thompson - 193cm, 87kg (")

(Heights and weights from 2010 AFL Prospectus)

Wouldn't you prefer to have the bigger bodied Giles (listed at 199cm and 101kg in the 2009 AFL Prospectus) as a back-up option, and let the slightly undersized guys like Sellar, McKernan and Craig preserve their bodies away from the bash-and-crash of the ruck, and develop as key position options up forward or down back instead?

Our big-bodied pure ruckman players are now Maric, Moran and Jacobs. I don't think we need anymore than that for the time being.

 

[Mego Red]

Our big-bodied pure ruckman players are now Maric, Moran and Jacobs. I don't think we need anymore than that for the time being.

I still think he'd be a good get for us - but realistically he'll go in the 50's in the draft, and we'd have other priorities at 61 anyway. Moran isn't a pure ruckman, so a third player in that category wouldn't be terrible. But he'd only be a rookie option for us.

 

[cmndstab]

I still think he'd be a good get for us - but realistically he'll go in the 50's in the draft, and we'd have other priorities at 61 anyway. Moran isn't a pure ruckman, so a third player in that category wouldn't be terrible. But he'd only be a rookie option for us.

Moran was supposedly recruited as a key defender who could pinch-hit in the ruck, but I get the feeling that went out the window pretty quickly.

 

[Malibu#27]

Do you guys think that you will be playing both Maric and Jacobs in your 21 ?

 

[Vader]

Do you guys think that you will be playing both Maric and Jacobs in your 21 ?

I do.. but I get the feeling that I'm in the minority.

 

[Malibu#27]

I do.. but I get the feeling that I'm in the minority.

Fair enough, was just wondering given there is some talk that the new I/C rule is the end of 2 rucks.

I guess in a way its just a step back to the days of 3 I/c - with the major difference being that the game is being played with midfielders having a lot more short bursts. (I hate the new rule).

It looks like there are probably 3 ways to go:

1) Play 2 genuine rucks in your 21 (as you are suggesting)
2) Play a second genuine ruck as your sub
3) Play with 1 genuine ruck and have versatile talls in your side to 'pinch hit'

I'm thinking options 1) and 3) are the only ways to play it. Option 2) generally wont work. The tactic of having slightly less fresh midfield supporting two fresh rucks versus having a slighly fresher midfield, but needing to occasionally use an inferior ruck (for the pinch hit) will be interesting.

I'd suggest the Crows are shooting for option 1) - otherwise the need to recruit Jacobs really wasn't there.

 

[cmndstab]

I do.. but I get the feeling that I'm in the minority.

I think that would be the club's first preference, but they will keep an eye on how well it works during preseason and change it if it just doesn't work.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Do you guys think that you will be playing both Maric and Jacobs in your 21 ?

Rendell said 2 years ago the reason why we are loading up on 195cm players, who used to be classed as an in between size, is because that is the size ruckman will be in the future as they will need to be more mobile. I think he was spot on! I cant see us playing two big blokes anymore. We will play 1 of them, have the luxury of Tippett if we need, and will play a Mckernan or Sellar sized guy. This new interchange rule is a massive advantage to Adelaide when you have K.Tippett in your forward line, just in case.. Not sure other teams will have the same luxury... Probably means we will be able to carry an extra runner for the 2nd half.

Rendell is a genius!

 

[dplggr47]

i think we will still play both Maric/Jacobs.

 

[Malibu#27]

Rendell said 2 years ago the reason why we are loading up on 195cm players, who used to be classed as an in between size, is because that is the size ruckman will be in the future as they will need to be more mobile. I think he was spot on! I cant see us playing two big blokes anymore. We will play 1 of them, have the luxury of Tippett if we need, and will play a Mckernan or Sellar sized guy. This new interchange rule is a massive advantage to Adelaide when you have K.Tippett in your forward line, just in case.. Not sure other teams will have the same luxury... Probably means we will be able to carry an extra runner for the 2nd half.

Rendell is a genius!

So you are saying Rendell is a genius because he has identified the future of AFL is to only play one genuine ruckman, supported by part timers ?
(That is also the approach Port has stated it is taking).

If that is the case, and Jacobs has come across for more opportunity, wouldn't that mean Marics spot is well and truely in the gun ? (because by playing both Maric and Jacobs would go against the strategy you are claiming proves Rendell to be a genius)

Come seasons end - if you are only playing one ruck, and that is Jacobs, it would mean Maric is rucking at the Magpies - and probably a prime candidate for GWS for greater opportunity (pending contractual status).

Its the quandary with depth, you want depth in every position, but as the quality of the depth increases, so does the likelyhood that the 'next in line' on your list will up and go to get opportunities elsewhere.


PS - I'm not debating the model that you suggest Rendell is shooting for as Port has a similar model, and other AFL coaches (Eade etc) have suggested it is the future direction due to rule changes.
But I'm wondering if this model is the one you will be adopting whether Jacobs has been recruited to replace Maric in the lineup, or to serve as a depth player behind Maric.

 

[Vessel]

Maric and Jacobs in the 21 at the start of the season. If it is not working, based on form, one will drop out for Sellar/SMACK. I have a feeling that injuries and form will quickly make what right now seems a hard decision relatively easy.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

So you are saying Rendell is a genius because he has identified the future of AFL is to only play one genuine ruckman, supported by part timers ?
(That is also the approach Port has stated it is taking).

If that is the case, and Jacobs has come across for more opportunity, wouldn't that mean Marics spot is well and truely in the gun ? (because by playing both Maric and Jacobs would go against the strategy you are claiming proves Rendell to be a genius)

Come seasons end - if you are only playing one ruck, and that is Jacobs, it would mean Maric is rucking at the Magpies - and probably a prime candidate for GWS for greater opportunity (pending contractual status).

Its the quandary with depth, you want depth in every position, but as the quality of the depth increases, so does the likelyhood that the 'next in line' on your list will up and go to get opportunities elsewhere.


PS - I'm not debating the model that you suggest Rendell is shooting for as Port has a similar model, and other AFL coaches (Eade etc) have suggested it is the future direction due to rule changes.
But I'm wondering if this model is the one you will be adopting whether Jacobs has been recruited to replace Maric in the lineup, or to serve as a depth player behind Maric.

Yep, I think Maric is in trouble, especially with the new rules. I dont think Maric has grabbed the position with two hands. We need a first ruck who can dominate games but more importantly doesnt have games where we get destroyed. The only game I reckon Maric has dominated was the final against Essendon when he was up against Lovett-Murray. Its not good enough. I reckon Maric is at best a back up ruck, worthy of a spot on the list but that is it. And if GWS want him, give us an end of first round pick and I would be cheering.
The new sub rule is going to hurt genuine 2nd rucks, which is all I reckon Maric is, but, it is a massive advantage to the 195cm rucks that Rendell chrystal balled 2 years ago.

 

[Stiffy_18]

So you are saying Rendell is a genius because he has identified the future of AFL is to only play one genuine ruckman, supported by part timers ?
(That is also the approach Port has stated it is taking).

If that is the case, and Jacobs has come across for more opportunity, wouldn't that mean Marics spot is well and truely in the gun ? (because by playing both Maric and Jacobs would go against the strategy you are claiming proves Rendell to be a genius)

Come seasons end - if you are only playing one ruck, and that is Jacobs, it would mean Maric is rucking at the Magpies - and probably a prime candidate for GWS for greater opportunity (pending contractual status).

Its the quandary with depth, you want depth in every position, but as the quality of the depth increases, so does the likelyhood that the 'next in line' on your list will up and go to get opportunities elsewhere.


PS - I'm not debating the model that you suggest Rendell is shooting for as Port has a similar model, and other AFL coaches (Eade etc) have suggested it is the future direction due to rule changes.
But I'm wondering if this model is the one you will be adopting whether Jacobs has been recruited to replace Maric in the lineup, or to serve as a depth player behind Maric.

I think Jacobs was recruited to fight it out with Maric for the #1 ruck spot with a few that it wouldn't take long for him to become #1 ruckman.

No one can question Maric's heart, fire and competitive spirit but he is limited because he is not a full sized ruckman. He is under 200cm, is not a great leaper and doesn't posses a great wingspan. Those are all his short comings. In the old era (read 2010 ) Maric would have made an ideal 2nd ruckman. He can easily go up against the 2nd stringers and is handy when he is planted at FF. Can take a reasonable mark and is a very accurate kick on goal.

Having said that, with the current rules, I think he might be in a bit of trouble. I think that Jacobs is a genuine ruck size. He is a genuine 200+cm / 100+kg ruckman. Not very mobile, has question marks over his engine but an improving around the ground play. However, he is a much better tap ruckman than Maric mainly due to his size.

I think that it will not take long for Jacobs to gain the #1 spot (but Maric will NOT just roll over and accept that...thats what we all love about him) and with the new rules Maric's spot in the 21 comes into real danger because the 2nd ruckman will be someone like McKernan who provides more flexibility. He can play FB, CHB, CHF, FF and ruck and also allows us the flexibility to throw Tippett into ruck (if needed) and plan him at FF/CHF.

When Rendell proclaimed McKernan a star in the making he said he will be a bit of a tall utility and the days of 2 genuine ruckmen in the side are numbered.

You guys have your own version in Trengove. He is your tall utility that can play in the backline and do the 2nd ruck duties when needed.

 

[cmndstab]

I'm not sure we can make too much of Jacob's height advantage of Maric. Maric is only 2cm shorter than Jacobs, hardly a crippling deficiency. What will be important will be their actual footballing ability, not their relative heights. Jacobs, from all I've heard, is very good at the rucking side of the game, and is good in close. Maric is decent at the rucking side of the game, and is useful as an extra man in defence. Both will be challenged to improve their game and stake a claim over the other.

Both may end up being played, but I imagine we will see how they go together during the preseason and choose the final 22 accordingly.