Forgotten Fog Files - permanent forward, midfielder or both?

[John Who]

I was adamant I recall Fog looking good in some of his midfield minutes tried in his early Crows years. So I decided to look through some highlights for your viewing pleasure.

Some serious strength and tackle-breaking ability in the above video. Yes or no?

Fog pre-drafting highlight:

He appeared to have played as a utility with highlights from all around the ground. The midfield centre bounce samples in the above clip @0:58 and @1:20.

Finally what does Fog think of himself as a footballer (just before drafting)? I’m glad you asked!

Fogs own words “at the moment, I think I’m a bit of a forward/midfielder. I’m pretty competitive. Yeah, I like to use my body when I can and break through tackles”. Some pretty good football highlights too.

As a disclaimer, I’m not advocating for Fog to be a permanent midfielder, dashing defender or Rob’s ruck replacement.

 

[1970crow]

With all of the midfield options that we have these days why would we waste midfield time on Fogarty?

His field vision and disposal off both sides of his body is elite, or bordering it. It's the type of thing I'd try here and there, maybe leave a mid in the behind the ball set-up and have him attend a few stoppages in the forward 50. Not the ones where Tex is going to benchpress his way to clean possession and a snap though.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Will never be a midfielder and we don’t need him to be

Let him develop as a forward

 

[1970crow]

Will never be a midfielder and we don’t need him to be

Let him develop as a forward

he'd be our only hope of becoming an A grade big bodied mid. There were people arguing that Dawson was an elite half back and we didn't need him becoming a mid. Imagine Ollie Wines but with high end vision and execution. You seriously just knock that back off-hand?

 

[Bearded Clam]

theres no way he can become a full time midfielder..
But..
I have no idea why they dont throw him in for the odd centre bounce here and there.

just to change things up when we are getting rag dolled by some of the better bigger bodied midfield groups in the comp.

just injects someone with a very big body who can throw some weight around.. something our midfield has lacked for years now.

someone who wants to hurt the opposition. Someone that has opponents worrying not just about the footy but also being clouted from behind if they get it by a bloke who inflicts pain.

like he did to Caddy in his second game.. like he did to curnow in the gather round this year.

puts opponents off their game.

lairds a midget, crouch is not much bigger, Dawson is a bigger lad but he’s not your bull type player, he plays with skill and flair, keays is bash and crash but has terrible skills and decision making, sloane is too old now.. and guys like rankine, rach, soligo, pedlar arent big bulls either. Although pedlar has some of the traits but he’s not a 190cm+ lad.

I’d like to see Mitch Hinge given a run in there too though..

 

[cleanhands]

theres no way he can become a full time midfielder..
But..
I have no idea why they dont throw him in for the odd centre bounce here and there.

just to change things up when we are getting rag dolled by some of the better bigger bodied midfield groups in the comp.

just injects someone with a very big body who can throw some weight around.. something our midfield has lacked for years now.

someone who wants to hurt the opposition. Someone that has opponents worrying not just about the footy but also being clouted from behind if they get it by a bloke who inflicts pain.

like he did to Caddy in his second game.. like he did to curnow in the gather round this year.

puts opponents off their game.

lairds a midget, crouch is not much bigger, Dawson is a bigger lad but he’s not your bull type player, he plays with skill and flair, keays is bash and crash but has terrible skills and decision making, sloane is too old now.. and guys like rankine, rach, soligo, pedlar arent big bulls either. Although pedlar has some of the traits but he’s not a 190cm+ lad.

I’d like to see Mitch Hinge given a run in there too though..

its always something I’ve considered once he got his tank up, get in for the centre bounce, then go forward, he’s a brute along the Cripps line

 

[hugecannon]

The occasional 5-10 minute burst if he’s struggling to get involved in the game or being beaten by his opponent would be a move to consider, his role (as with all forwards) is very hot/cold, so it would be great to find some other ways to get him involved consistently.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

he'd be our only hope of becoming an A grade big bodied mid. There were people arguing that Dawson was an elite half back and we didn't need him becoming a mid. Imagine Ollie Wines but with high end vision and execution. You seriously just knock that back off-hand?

Just an opinion but doesnt have the lateral movement , footy IQ , ball winning and running ability from what I’ve seen when he’s played there

Dawson had more than enough evidence he could do it , I’d seen him do it many times at different levels

Fogarty has a good chance to be a good forward to help cover Tex loss in retirement , best he keeps working on that

I still wouldn’t be opposed to the odd centre bounce though

 

[Jeffcrowe]

theres no way he can become a full time midfielder..
But..
I have no idea why they dont throw him in for the odd centre bounce here and there.

just to change things up when we are getting rag dolled by some of the better bigger bodied midfield groups in the comp.

just injects someone with a very big body who can throw some weight around.. something our midfield has lacked for years now.

someone who wants to hurt the opposition. Someone that has opponents worrying not just about the footy but also being clouted from behind if they get it by a bloke who inflicts pain.

like he did to Caddy in his second game.. like he did to curnow in the gather round this year.

puts opponents off their game.

lairds a midget, crouch is not much bigger, Dawson is a bigger lad but he’s not your bull type player, he plays with skill and flair, keays is bash and crash but has terrible skills and decision making, sloane is too old now.. and guys like rankine, rach, soligo, pedlar arent big bulls either. Although pedlar has some of the traits but he’s not a 190cm+ lad.

I’d like to see Mitch Hinge given a run in there too though..

This is a good way to use Fog occasionally / rarely I think

But we need him as our goal kicking forward overall which suits him and team best

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

the poor bloke would get flash backs. he got the usual crows development of an entire year in the sanfl then came in for 1 game in round 22 and kicked 5 against West Coast, rather than taking that as a sign of maybe we got it wrong, we trained him in the midfield group over the proceeding summer and ruined the following year too

 

[1970crow]

theres no way he can become a full time midfielder..
But..
I have no idea why they dont throw him in for the odd centre bounce here and there.

just to change things up when we are getting rag dolled by some of the better bigger bodied midfield groups in the comp.

just injects someone with a very big body who can throw some weight around.. something our midfield has lacked for years now.

someone who wants to hurt the opposition. Someone that has opponents worrying not just about the footy but also being clouted from behind if they get it by a bloke who inflicts pain.

like he did to Caddy in his second game.. like he did to curnow in the gather round this year.

puts opponents off their game.

lairds a midget, crouch is not much bigger, Dawson is a bigger lad but he’s not your bull type player, he plays with skill and flair, keays is bash and crash but has terrible skills and decision making, sloane is too old now.. and guys like rankine, rach, soligo, pedlar arent big bulls either. Although pedlar has some of the traits but he’s not a 190cm+ lad.

I’d like to see Mitch Hinge given a run in there too though..

I'd like to see him do it well in F50 stoppages before I'd potentially cook him for no gain by doing it further up the ground. I think there's a way we can have a look at it without screwing our structure or putting extra pressure on his ability to perform his primary role.

 

[1970crow]

Just an opinion but doesnt have the lateral movement , footy IQ , ball winning and running ability from what I’ve seen when he’s played there

Dawson had more than enough evidence he could do it , I’d seen him do it many times at different levels

Fogarty has a good chance to be a good forward to help cover Tex loss in retirement , best he keeps working on that

I still wouldn’t be opposed to the odd centre bounce though

I reckon his lateral movement and footy IQ is fine, I've seen him collect ground ball, pivot, hold and hit up 25-30m targets off both legs. Ball winning and running capacity is the question, which is why I'd have a look at him at F50 stoppages first. That way we don't gas him but get to see if he can win that contested ball and how he uses it in the congestion.

 

[cleanhands]

I reckon his lateral movement and footy IQ is fine, I've seen him collect ground ball, pivot, hold and hit up 25-30m targets off both legs. Ball winning and running capacity is the question, which is why I'd have a look at him at F50 stoppages first. That way we don't gas him but get to see if he can win that contested ball and how he uses it in the congestion.

I have no doubt he could handle it

 

[grundog49]

theres no way he can become a full time midfielder..
But..
I have no idea why they dont throw him in for the odd centre bounce here and there.

just to change things up when we are getting rag dolled by some of the better bigger bodied midfield groups in the comp.

just injects someone with a very big body who can throw some weight around.. something our midfield has lacked for years now.

someone who wants to hurt the opposition. Someone that has opponents worrying not just about the footy but also being clouted from behind if they get it by a bloke who inflicts pain.

like he did to Caddy in his second game.. like he did to curnow in the gather round this year.

puts opponents off their game.

lairds a midget, crouch is not much bigger, Dawson is a bigger lad but he’s not your bull type player, he plays with skill and flair, keays is bash and crash but has terrible skills and decision making, sloane is too old now.. and guys like rankine, rach, soligo, pedlar arent big bulls either. Although pedlar has some of the traits but he’s not a 190cm+ lad.

I’d like to see Mitch Hinge given a run in there too though..

Pedlar is bull-like for sure

 

[1970crow]

Pedlar is bull-like for sure

But it’s his pace that he relies upon to clear the contest. He won’t be busting through off 2 paces like Wines used to or Oliver does.

 

[Multiballz]

I'd like to see him do it well in F50 stoppages before I'd potentially cook him for no gain by doing it further up the ground. I think there's a way we can have a look at it without screwing our structure or putting extra pressure on his ability to perform his primary role.

You just put him in for a CBA or two to stem the beatings from bigger/stronger midfields. Once the balls in general play, hes back down fwd.

 

[1970crow]

You just put him in for a CBA or two to stem the beatings from bigger/stronger midfields. Once the balls in general play, hes back down fwd.

It’s setting him up for failure though. The solution to our experienced mids getting pantsed is throw a key forward on training wheels in there? I think we’d want to be confident we were doing something to arrest the slide, not experimenting.

 

[Multiballz]

It’s setting him up for failure though. The solution to our experienced mids getting pantsed is throw a key forward on training wheels in there? I think we’d want to be confident we were doing something to arrest the slide, not experimenting.

Whats to lose? Id prefer we experiment than do nothing as we often do.

 

[Golumless]

Whats to lose? Id prefer we experiment than do nothing as we often do.

Usually it's better to do nothing. There is a reason why the idea of 'throwing the magnets around' has died as a coaching technique, as it tends to end up being detrimental to the side to try things mid-game.

Especially when you're talking about a guy who's already in a high-value role and has shown he has no real aptitude for midfield at the pro level because we spent years being confused by Fog being a tweener.

 

[Multiballz]

Usually it's better to do nothing. There is a reason why the idea of 'throwing the magnets around' has died as a coaching technique, as it tends to end up being detrimental to the side to try things without practicing it prior and building it as a strategy.

Especially when you're talking about a guy who's already in a high-value role and has shown he has no real aptitude for midfield at the pro level because we spent years being confused by Fog being a tweener.

Yeah I watched this team do nothing for years under the circumstance Im picturing. Long story short, we end up losing the game. Now I know its not all about winning, but cmon.

 

[Faaarrk]

Whats to lose? Id prefer we experiment than do nothing as we often do.

We have tried it though and apart from a couple of nice moments it was a fail. Mainly in the sanfl.

Centre bounces are a completely different setup to around the ground stoppages.

I’m not sure why anyone would want to experiment more with him and potentially mess whatever good work he’s being doing in the forward lines. He is a confidence player, best not to knock it.

 

[Multiballz]

We have tried it though and apart from a couple of nice moments it was a fail. Mainly in the sanfl.

Centre bounces are a completely different setup to around the ground stoppages.

I’m not sure why anyone would want to experiment more with him and potentially mess whatever good work he’s being doing in the forward lines. He is a confidence player, best not to knock it.

You know those games where a bigger,stronger midfield get a run on and completely obliterate us from centre bounces for a quarter-quarter and a half. Usually sees us cough up a healthy lead or having us jumped early before valiantly fighting back all game to lose by a kick?
Its those quarters that Fog is going cold, not contributing and fading out of the game anyways.
With no solution other than rotating our other lightweight mids through the centre so they too can get ragdolled, whats to lose?

Its pinch hitting, not resting the outcome of a game on his oh so fragile shoulders..

Edit: Its funny how many pundits Ive seen lambast Fog for fading out of games over the years, or calling for him to win more of his own ball in games where the Midfield have been comprehensively destroyed and the ball has barely been in the same 3rd as him all game. Yep, Fogs a confidence player that tends to go cold when starved of the ball.
Throwing him on ball a couple of times a quarter isnt going to do any harm.

 

[Golumless]

Yeah I watched this team do nothing for years under the circumstance Im picturing. Long story short, we end up losing the game. Now I know its not all about winning, but cmon.

That's cool. So has everyone who supports every team in the league - from the truly bleak and depressing to the dynasty sides.

No one throws the magnets around and experiments because it just isn't worthwhile the majority of the time. Both in long term opportunity cost and short term results. The short term is you're throwing your structure and game plan out of whack which tends to make you a lot more vulnerable to a big loss in a league where percentage matters. The long term is you're losing an opportunity to develop your game plan in scenarios where you're under siege and against opponents who are on song.

At most you might see the second stringers getting more of a go in main roles in those kind of games if they're being developed for it, but even then that's kind of rare and more likely when a side is comfortably winning. However, when it comes to match-day coaching, it really is about how a coach motivates a side and keeps them grinding even when they're overmatched in periods.

 

[Multiballz]

That's cool. So has everyone who supports every team in the league - from the truly bleak and depressing to the dynasty sides.

No one throws the magnets around and experiments because it just isn't worthwhile the majority of the time. Both in long term opportunity cost and short term results. The short term is you're throwing your structure and game plan out of whack which tends to make you a lot more vulnerable to a big loss in a league where percentage matters. The long term is you're losing an opportunity to develop your game plan in scenarios where you're under siege and against opponents who are on song.

At most you might see the second stringers getting more of a go in main roles in those kind of games if they're being developed for it, but even then that's kind of rare and more likely when a side is comfortably winning. However, when it comes to match-day coaching, it really is about how a coach motivates a side and keeps them grinding even when they're overmatched in periods.

But we do experiment. From Eddie Betts off the back of the square, to Murray or Nankervis on ball way too late in games to make any difference.
Fog attending a Centre bounce or two in order to try halt a run-on is hardly the most creative,daring or out of the box type thinking out there.

The successful midfields of the past decade have been far more dynamic in their rotations than we have in 20 years. You have described our philosophy to a tee, which is great if your quite happy with what we've produced. Just because its the norm for us, doesnt mean its some winning formula.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

He's not a player worth experimenting with, his form already dropped after signing a contract. When tried in the midfield he couldn't touch the thing. We need him at his best in the forward line. Thilthorpe is an unreliable forward and Walker is 34.