Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[MiguelM]

I think sacking Rutten now will put off a lot of the best applicants for the coaching position as well as any potential trade targets we had, which almost guarantees Hird as the next coach and a lower finish next year. How Rutten was treated is fresh on everyone’s mind. It means that we won’t even have the opportunity to follow a proper selection process.

Risk assessment and long term planning is the very basis of management. You can make better decisions if you plan over a year (especially after the external review) than planning over a couple of weeks. I fear for the direction of the club if the club cannot assess the risks I detailed above. Sticking with Rutten for at least another season is the right call whether or not he is the right person.

I agree Rutten treated badly but AFL clubs move on pretty quickly.

 

[JayJ20]

I agree Rutten treated badly but AFL clubs move on pretty quickly.

Yeah they move on, which is why we need to give it a year for people to forget. Right now everyone is invested in Rutten’s treatment. Why rush to the Essendon job with all the instability and potentially ruin your coaching career? Keep Rutten and look for another coach next year (if needed) when the external review happened, the people that need to be removed are removed, the club is stable, the list quality is clear and the direction is clear. That’s a far better environment for candidates.

Also, I don’t like the idea of sacking Rutten with Dodoro, Sheedy, Harvey and Campbell still at the club. the first three are already reportedly pushing for Hird. Given these people have way too much influence, I’d rather wait for the external review to be completed.

 

[MiguelM]

Yeah they move on, which is why we need to give it a year for people to forget. Right now everyone is invested in Rutten’s treatment. Why rush to the Essendon job with all the instability and potentially ruin your coaching career? Keep Rutten and look for another coach next year (if needed) when the external review happened, the people that need to be removed are removed, the club is stable, the list quality is clear and the direction is clear. That’s a far better environment for candidates.

Also, I don’t like the idea of sacking Rutten with Dodoro, Sheedy, Harvey and Campbell still at the club. the first three are already reportedly pushing for Hird. Given these people have way too much influence, I’d rather wait for the external review to be completed.

Absolutely agree, re Harvey & co.

Can't have Rutten the scapegoat, others have to go if he does.

 

[Eleven 38]

Yeah what a s**t show, only we could put ourselves in a position where we want to sack the coach but have to keep him because we made ourselves look so stupid the best candidates may not apply.

 

[Zach Package]

Rutten has been treated badly but that is the AFL way. Two types of coaches, those that have been sacked, those that will be. Not many walk away.

If we lose players, so be it, club is bigger.

If the club had balls they would back Rutten but the longer the debacle goes on unlikely. So who then? Another untried assistant? Lyon, Buckley, Hird?

What a mess. Knee jerk reaction to a bad loss that should be on the players.

The use of ‘the club is bigger than the individual’ as a justification for letting players walk might just be the most poorly timed thing anyone has ever said.

 

[MiguelM]

The use of ‘the club is bigger than the individual’ as a justification for letting players walk might just be the most poorly timed thing anyone has ever said.

IMO, it is the players fault we are in this mess.

We need to toughen up!

 

[nipst@r]

IMO, it is the players fault we are in this mess.

We need to toughen up!

This is totally incorrect. The mess has spanned twenty years, so a lot longer than any players career.

Im not sure what will get us out of this period but I'd leave if I was a merret, parish, Perkins, Heppel.

Was kind of hoping players and Rutten will make a political statement tonight. Not sure what - but a big f U to the coterie group and board holding this club back is needed.

Dont rate Rutten as a tactical coach at all but my admiration for him has grown. His integrity and leadership might be his strengths as a coach.

 

[The Donners]

It’ll take 1-2 years to change the culture IF we remove the toxic officials and players.

I think sacking Rutten now will put off a lot of the best applicants for the coaching position as well as any potential trade targets we had, which almost guarantees Hird as the next coach and a lower finish next year. How Rutten was treated is fresh on everyone’s mind. It means that we won’t even have the opportunity to follow a proper selection process.

Risk assessment and long term planning is the very basis of management. You can make better decisions if you plan over a year (especially after the external review) than planning over a couple of weeks. I fear for the direction of the club if the club cannot assess the risks I detailed above. Sticking with Rutten for at least another season is the right call whether or not he is the right person.

Re coaching applicants. There are very few positions available at any give time. There’s potentially 1 available for the foreseeable future. I don’t think there’ll be a wanna-be-coach that won’t apply for the position, holding out for the “right” job.

 

[MiguelM]

This is totally incorrect. The mess has spanned twenty years, so a lot longer than any players career.

Im not sure what will get us out of this period but I'd leave if I was a merret, parish, Perkins, Heppel.

Was kind of hoping players and Rutten will make a political statement tonight. Not sure what - but a big f U to the coterie group and board holding this club back is needed.

Dont rate Rutten as a tactical coach at all but my admiration for him has grown. His integrity and leadership might be his strengths as a coach.

How long Has Dodoro been there?

The players have shown they can play well at times. We are just not mentally tough enough.

Merrett sooks when he is tagged, doesn't fight through it as one example.

Agree, re coterie groups & board too.

I like Rutten, but can he survive the "get Hird back" mantra. There are too many living a fantasy of past glories.

 

[JayJ20]

It’ll take 1-2 years to change the culture IF we remove the toxic officials and players.

Re coaching applicants. There are very few positions available at any give time. There’s potentially 1 available for the foreseeable future. I don’t think there’ll be a wanna-be-coach that won’t apply for the position, holding out for the “right” job.

The other side of the argument is you only really have one chance to be a senior coach. With the way the club is heading, the new senior coach could be out in 2 years like David Noble, Bolton and Teague if they inherit a basket case. The smartest candidates would hold off until next year given that Rutten will likely be sacked if we don’t perform well, which is the likely outcome. No need to rush for the job when everything is unstable and pressure is high. Take it when it’s settled.

 

[yodellinhank]

The other side of the argument is you only really have one chance to be a senior coach. With the way the club is heading, the new senior coach could be out in 2 years like David Noble, Bolton and Teague if they inherit a basket case. The smartest candidates would hold off until next year given that Rutten will likely be sacked if we don’t perform well, which is the likely outcome.

There aren't too many coaches who don't inherit a basket case. Some, but not many.

 

[JayJ20]

There aren't too many coaches who don't inherit a basket case. Some, but not many.

Fair enough, but I think our basket case problem is not on field (at the moment). It’s off the field, which is far less attractive. I’m sure Clarko looked at Essendon and thought “nope” very quickly. Though we have talent, he probably found North the more attractive destination simply because of how they’re running their football department. You can take a lot from how each club presented to Clarkson to know who the true basket case is.

 

[yodellinhank]

Fair enough, but I think our basket case problem is not on field (at the moment). It’s off the field, which is far less attractive. I’m sure Clarko looked at Essendon and thought “nope” very quickly. Though we have talent, he probably found North the more attractive destination simply because of how they’re running their football department. You can take a lot from how each club presented. to Clarkson to know who the true basket case is.

I wasn't there when North presented to Clarkson. Did his vision for the club line up with what they've been doing recruiting wise?

 

[Nifft]

This is a genuine question. At what point do we stop looking at the coach and start looking at the players and list management? A good club needs to be able to identify the exact problem. Why do we continuously end up with an attacking team that doesn't defend? Is it development or is it recruiting?

If it was another coach, then sure, but we literally got Rutten specifically for the purpose of his success with Richmond in building and implementing what is the best team defence in the modern era. Hardwick couldn't manage that for 6 years prior to it and he suddenly manages it in 2017? In the 18 years I have followed Essendon, we haven't been able to defend consistently. Why do so many coaches struggle to implement a sustainable team defence at Essendon? How did Worsfold and Rutten implement a good defensive system in the back half of 2018, only for it to unravel again in 2019? What is it that completely sucks the coaching ability away from coaches at Essendon in comparison to other teams?

At what point do we stop looking at coaches all the time and start looking at who we recruit? I can tell you with 100% certainty that we wouldn't have this conversation if our midfield comprised of Hewett, Oliver, Dunkley with the likes of Shai Bolton supporting them.

I can tell you the exact problem. EVERY year, we talk about building a defensive midfield by increasing the average height and weight of our midfield + looking for players that are contested in nature all over the ground. We then go ahead and recruit players that are front-runners. All cream and no cake. So how do we really expect coaches to implement a defensive game when we have no real "blue collar" players?

I was sucked into the coaching criticism of Worsfold, but Rutten's tenure made me re-think how the whole club operates. I realise that it isn't just a list management issue. The CONSTANT pressure around the club and the lack of faith in coaches makes every coach setup for failure. I've noticed it in 2018 and 2019, but every time a coach tries to teach our players consistent team defence, the games become a little boring and we don't do as well. Instead of pushing on with it, the supporters, ex-Essendon players, the media etc heap pressure on the coach because we're not winning a premiership. When the coach eventually has enough of the pressure, they let this team play free defenceless football that suits the list build and the wins start to come in the back half of the year. Then everyone says "why didn't they play like this at the beginning of the year? This team is at its best when it plays with flair and excitement blah blah". Then finals comes around and we get smacked because defence wins premierships. Then the very same people analyse the final and say "this team doesn't play a sustainable brand of football and doesn't defend". It makes me frustrated to see the very same Essendon media people contradict themselves.

I completely understand Woosha's criticism of the club's entitlement. This club does not have the patience for success. The reason why Essendon will always be setup to fail is because they don't believe in working hard to achieve a longterm goal. It's all about short term successes to paper over the cracks. The supporters will always bring up the last 18 years and the supporters themselves are not patient enough to think about the longterm goals, which makes them inclined to put pressure on the club to make irrational and reactionary short term decisions.

The only way I can see this cycle broken is to recruit players that are naturally contested so that we are forced to play a boring contested gamestyle that is reliable, but with zero entertainment value. Fill the side up with Hewetts and Hockings. Add Shiels and Stringers later. Unfortunatley, Dodoro doesn't build lists like that, so I don't see things changing unless he is removed. He has way too much influence at the club for coaches to overcome. If we don't address the real issues, then we will continue to churn through coaches like Richmond, Melbourne and Carlton of old with no hope for success.

I want to back Rutten because I want the other areas fixed so that Rutten can truly have the faith and support of the club to build his own side. It's a disgrace that he is under this much pressure in his second year with a young and inexperienced list. Very symptomatic of a broken club with broken values.

Very good post, agree 100%.

 

[JayJ20]

I wasn't there when North presented to Clarkson. Did his vision for the club line up with what they've been doing recruiting wise?

I don't know but if he chooses a team with 2 wins and 56%, then they've done something right. I do trust his judgement given that he's seen what a successful system looks like.

 

[Nifft]

Dont rate Rutten as a tactical coach at all but my admiration for him has grown. His integrity and leadership might be his strengths as a coach.

The funny thing is that the tactical side is Rutten's strength, he helped created the game plan that got Richmond 3 premierships.

I think he's gained a heap of respect over the last week. I'd be surprised if it hasn't hit home with him about how cut throat this industry is, and if we keep him you'd think he'd approach things a little differently, hopefully a bit more detached and cut throat himself.

 

[Call Me Cake]

This is a genuine question. At what point do we stop looking at the coach and start looking at the players and list management?

First of all, you can't sack 22 players. Second of all, if you can't signify any progress in consistency when it comes to defensive efforts and general cohesion in structure - win or loss - then the buck must stop with the coach.

You can have a group of players who are young, and that's fine - but what's worse than a s**t coach? A young side being taught s**t habits. That is super hard to undo, and the best time to get it right is when the playing list is at it's most maluable.

That's not to say I was for sacking Rutten, but his inability to get the players to grasp basic tasks even to this point was and is a concern and should be raised. I am a known critic of Rutten but even I was happy enough to let him have his chance until the end of 2023. Even more-so now tbh. Because at least now I know he knows he ain't as comfortable in his spot as he once thought he was. Even better.

 

[Lore]

First of all, you can't sack 22 players. Second of all, if you can't signify any progress in consistency when it comes to defensive efforts and general cohesion in structure - win or loss - then the buck must stop with the coach.

You can have a group of players who are young, and that's fine - but what's worse than a s**t coach? A young side being taught s**t habits. That is super hard to undo, and the best time to get it right is when the playing list is at it's most maluable.

That's not to say I was for sacking Rutten, but his inability to get the players to grasp basic tasks even to this point was and is a concern and should be raised. I am a known critic of Rutten but even I was happy enough to let him have his chance until the end of 2023. Even more-so now tbh. Because at least now I know he knows he ain't as comfortable in his spot as he once thought he was. Even better.

How many coaches does the buck stop with before you pass it up the next level in the organisation?

 

[JayJ20]

First of all, you can't sack 22 players. Second of all, if you can't signify any progress in consistency when it comes to defensive efforts and general cohesion in structure - win or loss - then the buck must stop with the coach.

You can have a group of players who are young, and that's fine - but what's worse than a s**t coach? A young side being taught s**t habits. That is super hard to undo, and the best time to get it right is when the playing list is at it's most maluable.

That's not to say I was for sacking Rutten, but his inability to get the players to grasp basic tasks even to this point was and is a concern and should be raised. I am a known critic of Rutten but even I was happy enough to let him have his chance until the end of 2023. Even more-so now tbh. Because at least now I know he knows he ain't as comfortable in his spot as he once thought he was. Even better.

The issue here is that it’s been happening under 6 different coaches for 18 years. Surely we have enough data to start looking higher up? Not even Clarkson would have made a difference if we keep going in the same way.

My main issue is that this list is NOT built to defend. Undersized defence, undersized midfield, no pressure small forwards. I don’t see anything wrong with the development of younger players under Rutten. It’s the senior players inherited by Rutten from a failed system that are the problem. Like you said, it’s hard to change senior players and that’s true for any coach. The only way they’ll change is if they are under real pressure for their spot (through quality depth). Peter Wright is the perfect example of someone who felt the pressure and worked to improve. At the moment the depth is shockingly bad.

Dustin Martin is the best player in the modern era yet Hardwick with the best team defence couldn’t get him to defend. Instead, he has the likes of Cotchin, Prestia and Graham doing the defending. The solution is to recruit players willing to play the way Rutten wants the team to play so that players who don’t do the team thing will soon find themselves out of side unless they are Dustin Martin level good offensively. Otherwise we’ll continue the cycle of burning through coaches for no success.

 

[jmoo wan]

jesus that was hard to watch - looked like a man that knew it was his last game.

 

[naraku]

Thanks Truck.

 

[BratPack]

You didn't deserve this week Truck. Thanks for all the service. But please don't give the * the satisfaction of firing you, quit in the presser.

 

[Skipper_]

Say what you want about his coaching but you had to feel for the poor bloke tonight.

 

[TheGrizz]

Looks absolutely broken in the rooms.

I hate what this club has done to him this week.
I hate the people responsible for what has happened to him.
I hate that he is another victim of this clubs complete ineptitude and maladministration.

I hate this God damn ****ing club.

 

[Learntopray]

I wrote the below in the game thread. Rutten is not a good game day coach, maybe he needs different people around him if he hangs around moving forward.

Had an interesting thought, refusal to move BZT or Reid onto him was intriguing. Wonder if that is an F.U to recruiting or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

"Rutten's refusal to change anything is what has cost himself his job. The players need to execute, but if I coach doesn't change anything to try stop the rut, then what is even the point on match day?
It doesn't take a genius to see Ridley or Laverde on Lynch isn't working.
Throw BZT on him, throw Reid on him. * it throw Draper on him. You have to change something...
Don't get beat by what you know."