Forward Coach

[Scham]

thats lovely...if it’s working...which it isn’t...week after week.

Then perhaps you look at the personnel and how much they want to improve and how much natural ability they’ve got.

If you’re allowed to kick at goal in a way that you feel comfortable with and it isn’t working, then any player worth their salt would put their hand up and say you’re right coach, maybe I should change my technique, my way isn’t working. That’s why I’m so disappointed in Fyfe. He’s supposedly practicing heaps and he has an enormous desire to improve as a player and yet he still kicks those stupid screw kicks even when he’s straight in front and it rarely works for him.

 

[beetz]

Out: David Hale
In: Mark LeCras

 

[Scham]

Out: David Hale
In: Mark LeCras

That’s probably what’ll happen if Hale is leaving.

 

[Sweetback]

Lecras is back the fleagles https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-c...o-eagles-as-training-assistant-ng-b881794204z

 

[MadMundy]

Out: David Hale
In: Mark LeCras

LeCras is a coach for West Coast now.

 

[marc81]

Forward line been a shambles for a while. Fresh face can't hurt.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

 

[wayToGo_]

He’s not proven as a coach in any form but you want him to take over our forwardline? C’mon.

If he’s interested in coaching, let him get some experience with us first. Maybe as a development coach. Maybe down at Peel. But taking on an assistant role would be foolish.

True. We already made that mistake with Hale From player directly to assistant and 6 years heading up the worst forward line in the AFL.

 

[Taylor]

How important are the kicks in the forward stoppage drills when we train?

 

[Bring back Drum]

So is this thread seriously questioning the forward coach because the players can’t kick straight?

Sometimes it’s the players fault, actually most of the time it’s the players fault & trust me the message given by Hale will be the same as LeCras who doesn’t have some secret technique that no one else knows about, because if you recall Longmuir was at the Eagles too & sorted out Kennedy’s tap dancing woes whilst there.

 

[prpl_jss]

To be honest Hale was a Lyon era coach who was on contract… I like the coaches JLo has brought in..Let’s see what happens EOY

*plsbepavplsbepavplsbepav*

 

[Ysaye]

If you want to support the mental side then you allow the player to use the technique he’s most comfortable with. How is forcing him to do something that he doesn’t feel comfortable with positive psychology?

Not if it doesn't get them a successful result on a regular basis; can you honestly say that Fyfe's (or anyone else - is there any AFL player who has an effective rate with this approach?) kicking around the corner stuff near goal on slight angles (which presumably he practices?) gets him success at kicking goals? Despite it being something he is "comfortable with", he would appear to not be effective with it.

I don't know but coming from a musical background I have regularly come across many techniques in that space that may work under no stress but they then don't work under stress because there are too many moving parts; what ends up working (and this is where the teacher normally gets rid of the bad habits) is practicing the things that may feel slightly more uncomfortable initially but because from a biomechanical perspective they fail less when the player's headspace is all over the place; this success then in turn builds the confidence.

There is surely a reason why there are a lot of common biomechanical elements amongst goalkickers that have consistent accuracy? Or rather - if just doing what felt right worked, why is there so little physical variation amongst those that are consistent?

 

[Docker82]

Our forward yesterday was:
Lobb getting double and triple teamed all day. Kept bombing it to him though.
Treacy who shows obvious talent but isn't ready for AFL footy.
A bunch of smalls that aren't really a marking threat.

I thought our midfield let us down in the first quarter. Once again against better opposition they failed. We lost the rest of game by 6 points.

There's a few players who've developed well under Hale - Taberner and Schultz and maybe Lobb and Colyer to a degree. The rest are not natural forwards and/or just haven't had enough continuous time at AFL level.

 

[rgauci]

Our forward yesterday was:
Lobb getting double and triple teamed all day. Kept bombing it to him though.
Treacy who shows obvious talent but isn't ready for AFL footy.
A bunch of smalls that aren't really a marking threat.

I thought our midfield let us down in the first quarter. Once again against better opposition they failed. We lost the rest of game by 6 points.

There's a few players who've developed well under Hale - Taberner and Schultz and maybe Lobb and Colyer to a degree. The rest are not natural forwards and/or just haven't had enough continuous time at AFL level.

Midfields will get beaten from time to time. If the defense could hold up under duress that would be wonderful, but they are crap, Cox is one of the worst key backs in the league, but he’s the only one we have who can stay fit. Sean Darcy screaming at him for letting Ladhams take a mark 5m out unopposed is why I think Darcy will make it and Cox won’t.

 

[eastfreo75]

We don't have the cattle. Delist McCarthy and Dixon and push out Hogan in one off season. Bring in a teenage rookie to replace them. And expect a functional forward line?
I know who needs the sack and it ain't Hale.

None of those players had the professionalism to play AFL.

 

[Dockeroo]

Our forward yesterday was:
Lobb getting double and triple teamed all day. Kept bombing it to him though.
Treacy who shows obvious talent but isn't ready for AFL footy.
A bunch of smalls that aren't really a marking threat.

I thought our midfield let us down in the first quarter. Once again against better opposition they failed. We lost the rest of game by 6 points.

There's a few players who've developed well under Hale - Taberner and Schultz and maybe Lobb and Colyer to a degree. The rest are not natural forwards and/or just haven't had enough continuous time at AFL level.

Lobb is the exact same player he was at GWS - frustrating and inconsistent.
We need a medium forward of even serviceable AFL level. I’ll be so disappointed if we don’t make a selection at the MSD given how our lack of depth as been so exposed this year. So far we are the only club outside the 8 not to open a list spot

 

[wild side]

Yeah its incompetence.
What we got, aint getting it done. Change it.
Or the O'Reilly draft fiasco has scared them.
Pathetic

 

[Taylor]

I've seen some other clubs training their forward fifty plans with a target behind the goals. Players do need to execute but it does make a difference to train targeting a specific spot and not just anywhere above this line between these poles.

 

[Diverbelow]

Kicks during general play are generally landing within a few metres of the target player. You dont often see a kick in or in general play miss by so much as our goal kicking. It seems that in general play or kick in from a behind that the player spots up a target. Many many years ago we were taught that for a set shot within range you pick out a target in the crowd behind the goals and kick it to them. You never watch a premier darts player just throw to a zone.......always has a specific target.

 

[One_Wing]

 

[wayToGo_]

Equating our need for a new forward coach solely to goal kicking accuracy is dumb but look at it as one of a number of key indicators and I'm fairly certain the only reason a change hasn't been made already is because he was already contracted until the end of this year (before JL took over).

• As Scham said we shouldn't be looking at someone going straight from player to assistant coach. Hale's first coaching appointment was with us as an assistant to Ross - not exactly the ideal learning environment for a forward line coach. Need someone who has a proven record creating a functional forward line. What we should have done in 2015 is gone hard for Justin as a forward line assistant under Ross - having shown his competence at WC.
• We've had the worst performing forward line in the league in every year of his 6 year tenure. (Some of that is on list management but he has to take some responsibility).
• Our team dropped off a cliff in 2016 in his first year. Again certainly not all on him but it's a data point you have to consider.
• Despite some improvement last week after Justin intervened we are still clearly the worst for tackles inside 50.
• We are obviously the worst for goal kicking accuracy.
• Last year when the forward line was criticised, plenty on here said it was the mids fault for not enough supply and poor delivery inside 50. This year we are 3rd for marks i50. Our mids have some of the best i50 retention figures in the league. We are 6th for supply (i50s). We are 5th for shots on goal. So I'm assuming despite all this somehow the mids are still at fault for us not racking up big scores? No doubt some will twist themselves into knots to tell us why this has nothing to do with our forward coach not being up to it?
• The last damning data point through is your eyes (not stats). Whether you watch live (easier to see it) or on tv I'm not sure how anyone can watch a full game, deliberately compare how our forward line structures/moves/coordinates/etc to whoever we are playing and get to the end of the game and say "not bad". It is a chasm. The derby is easily the worst example. WC's forward line is amazing to watch. They can have a bunch of spuds in there and the whole thing still moves as one. I am so ******* jealous of those a-hole supporters sitting near me they get to watch poetry in motion up forward when the ball comes in. Meanwhile at our end it's "please don't * it up? oh s**t, they're going to * it up... wait, they didn't * it up. Yes! hang on, yep they've ****ed it up". I'm actually astonished our mids are able to hit targets i50 given how poorly coordinated our forward line appears watching them in the stands. Must be fun working your rear end off as a def or mid to get the ball i50 and serve it up on a platter only to not get a rest because somehow it didn't get put through the two tall sticks like it should have?

If for whatever reason you still think this is all just about personnel and if we suddenly draft some more decent forwards we'll have a functional forward line I think you are crazy delusional. I'm excited about the possibility of recruiting a really good forward line coach later this year. It won't solve all our problems but I won't be surprised if we see dramatic improvement as early as next year.

 

[Purpleheart_56]

Recruitment between 2010-2016 was a massive failure. Set Lyon up to fail and left us in a hole difficult to dig out of.

100% this...From those 5 drafts We have 4 players to show for(Tabs.Blakely.Hughes .Tucker)

Players drafted in those 5 drafts are 23-28 years old now and carry most of teams and We have these 4 players only...

This is biggest problem of our list..

 

[Piggy Smalls]

This. Maybe not so much getting rid of Cam and Dixon but our failure over an entire decade to draft decent fwds. It's baffling.

Every forward we’ve traded in has gone backwards. We can’t develop them. That’s on the coaching group as much as the recruiters.

 

[Joao]

Every forward we’ve traded in has gone backwards. We can’t develop them. That’s on the coaching group as much as the recruiters.

Not sure that's fair when there are massive concerns over the professionalisms of them. Cam, Hogan, Matera are all extremely talented but their mentality doesn't let it show like it should. Kersten I also suspect wasn't at the level either.

 

[Belnakor]

100% this...From those 5 drafts We have 4 players to show for(Tabs.Blakely.Hughes .Tucker)

Players drafted in those 5 drafts are 23-28 years old now and carry most of teams and We have these 4 players only...

This is biggest problem of our list..

Recruitment between 2010-2016 was a massive failure. Set Lyon up to fail and left us in a hole difficult to dig out of.

this is kind of a ridiculous comment because during those years we just didn't have the picks. Teams at the top of the leader always have a hole in their list 8-9 years later. Just look at the hawks.

 

[Docker82]

Lobb is the exact same player he was at GWS - frustrating and inconsistent.
We need a medium forward of even serviceable AFL level. I’ll be so disappointed if we don’t make a selection at the MSD given how our lack of depth as been so exposed this year. So far we are the only club outside the 8 not to open a list spot

I agree the lack of medium forwards on our list is concerning. Sturt is really the only one we have. Banfield and Frederick are midfielders we’ve tried to turn into forwards and it shows. At least I think Frederick is there more for development at this stage.

What’s equally as concerning is that we need tall forwards just as much if not more so we’re likely to use our better picks this way instead.

FWIW if we’d taken a MSD pick my preference was for us to go with a medium forward.