Fourth Test team

[swingdog]

What I'd pick (not like, mind):

Finch
Harris
Renshaw
Khawaja
S March
Handscomb
Paine
Cummins
Lyon
Starc
Hazlewood

What the selectors would like:

S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
Paine

 

[JackOutback]

What I'd pick (not like, mind):

Finch
Harris
Renshaw
Khawaja
S March
Handscomb
Paine
Cummins
Lyon
Starc
Hazlewood

What the selectors would like:

S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
Paine

Pfft, get rid of Paine and get Rod Marsh in there, then we're talking.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

What I'd pick (not like, mind):

Finch
Harris
Renshaw
Khawaja
S March
Handscomb
Paine
Cummins
Lyon
Starc
Hazlewood

What the selectors would like:

S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
S Marsh
M Marsh
Paine

I wouldn't be against that line up actually. That might just be because there's no M Marsh, but it's better than a lot of other XIs that have been posted.

 

[Kyptastic]

Compare the pair- 47 FC matches, 38.95 avg, 10 hundreds
67 FC matches, 35.55 avg, 9 hundreds
Who's who?- just bearing in mind the age gap as well

Some players just don't start their careers well. If you look at the last 3 years, Harris is close to the most consistent batsman in the shield. He's well and truly earned a shot at a baggy green.

 

[carnthemlions]

Some players just don't start their careers well. If you look at the last 3 years, Harris is close to the most consistent batsman in the shield. He's well and truly earned a shot at a baggy green.

I don't think you're wrong there at all, just disagreeing with the assertion that Renshaw is somehow fundamentally flawed?? For what it's worth I'd pick both, even if Renshaw isn't in great form there's no point going all in on the sort termism when we know it will all blow up in our faces in England. Finch, both Marshes and Head have no chance of contributing over there.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Compare the pair- 47 FC matches, 38.95 avg, 10 hundreds
67 FC matches, 35.55 avg, 9 hundreds
Who's who?- just bearing in mind the age gap as well

Is he though? He's got a pretty good record for a 22 year old, especially when you compare what he did in county cricket with what most other australians who weren't experienced pros like Rogers and Voges have tended to produce there in recent times.

What's his average in his last 10 shield games ?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I've honestly got no idea what our test XI will look like from 1-6.

7 Paine
8 Starc
9 Cummins
10 Lyon
11 Hazlewood

Unless we have injuries, the above is set.

My guess:

1 Finch
2 Khawaja
3 S Marsh
4 Head
5 Stoinis
6 M Marsh

The selectors love Stoinis, and if he performs they will have another option for when Mitch Marsh inevitably fails or is injured. Harris is the only one beating the door down and really he just made one big score in the first couple of games. If it was me I'd probably give Renshaw or Burns another go opening, bat Khawaja at 3 and push Shaun Marsh down the order. The sooner the banned trio are available for selection the better.

That 3-6 at Test level, not sure if I should be laughing or crying.

 

[Scotland]

That 3-6 at Test level, not sure if I should be laughing or crying.

Both?

The cupboard is as bare as it has ever been. Against Pakistan we blooded Head, Labushagne and Finch in the one test - the best of whom averages 37 at FC level.

Renshaw is out of form, we've seemingly given up on Joe Burns, Hilton Cartwright, Handscomb, Ferguson... hell we even picked Maddinson once.

 

[bird_man]

Compare the pair- 47 FC matches, 38.95 avg, 10 hundreds
67 FC matches, 35.55 avg, 9 hundreds
Who's who?- just bearing in mind the age gap as well

Judging players on overall first class averages isn't a great way to look at things. Michael Clake had a FC average of around 35 when he debut. We all know Harris had a very poor start to his career.

Harris since joining Victoria at the start of the 2016/17 season has averaged over 48

Lets compare the two's last 10 FC innings shall we?

39, 2, 0, 19, 3, 0, 89, 21, 13, 6 = 0 x 100's 1 x 50 at 19.2

109, 4, 16, 9, 26, 250*, 65, 7, 22, 67 = 2 x 100's 2 x 50's at 63.9

 

[King Elvis]

I’d be picking the second guy - but that 250* would be a massive factor in his average. Be nice to see a few more scores in the 40-60 range.

 

[bird_man]

I’d be picking the second guy - but that 250* would be a massive factor in his average. Be nice to see a few more scores in the 40-60 range.

He passed 50 in 40% of those innings. I know what you mean but it is hard to please everyone. Some say they want to see big hundreds, others say they want consistency.

Harris over the last two years has been very consistent.

 

[archibald]

Renshaw should be picked with a view to the ashes next year. Was dominating for Somerset earlier this year.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

That 3-6 at Test level, not sure if I should be laughing or crying.

Depends how drunk you are!

 

[Kyptastic]

Renshaw should be picked with a view to the ashes next year. Was dominating for Somerset earlier this year.

I agree with this and think Siddle should be in the Ashes squad for the same reason. However, Taunton (Somerset's home ground) is the most spin friendly pitch in England - you can make the argument that it's nothing like the type of pitches you'd see in the Ashes tests.

 

[bird_man]

Renshaw should be picked with a view to the ashes next year. Was dominating for Somerset earlier this year.

Surely we need to worry about beating India first.

Renshaw will be a good batsman I've got no doubt, but I don't see the point in throwing a young terribly out of form batsman into the side now for a series in 9 months time.

Let him find some form in Shield cricket

 

[2notepockets]

Judging players on overall first class averages isn't a great way to look at things. Michael Clake had a FC average of around 35 when he debut. We all know Harris had a very poor start to his career.

Harris since joining Victoria at the start of the 2016/17 season has averaged over 48

Lets compare the two's last 10 FC innings shall we?

39, 2, 0, 19, 3, 0, 89, 21, 13, 6 = 0 x 100's 1 x 50 at 19.2

109, 4, 16, 9, 26, 250*, 65, 7, 22, 67 = 2 x 100's 2 x 50's at 63.9

Renshaw lost his spot last summer due to a poor start to the shield season, yet finished the leading run scorer in the comp with 3 tons. He has 1300+ first class runs for 2018 with 6 tons 4 50s averaging 46+

 

[archibald]

Surely we need to worry about beating India first.

Renshaw will be a good batsman I've got no doubt, but I don't see the point in throwing a young terribly out of form batsman into the side now for a series in 9 months time.

Let him find some form in Shield cricket

A little faith wouldn't go astray. He was treated poorly in the UAE and deserved his spot there after a bumper winter. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that has affected his early shield form.

Also far too much weight is being placed on 3 shield games as the only guide to picking the side. You could conversely say his form is great based on the past 12 months.

 

[Kram]

Some people on this board will make any excuse under the sun for Renshaw.

 

[eddiesmith]

Some people on this board will make any excuse under the sun for Renshaw.

Nearly as bad as those who pick Mitch Marsh...

 

[nobbyiscool]

The selectors love Stoinis, and if he performs they will have another option for when Mitch Marsh inevitably fails or is injured. Harris is the only one beating the door down and really he just made one big score in the first couple of games. If it was me I'd probably give Renshaw or Burns another go opening, bat Khawaja at 3 and push Shaun Marsh down the order. The sooner the banned trio are available for selection the better.

The bolded part makes no sense to me when Doolan has more runs than him and Cooper has more hundreds.

 

[carnthemlions]

The bolded part makes no sense to me when Doolan has more runs than him and Cooper has more hundreds.

That's the thing- you can make an argument for Doolan, Wade, Cooper (ok probably not) or Harris based on their starts to the shield season. Do you go with one of the previous test failures or the new face? Honestly, whatever we do will probably just result in more chopping and changing. Pick them for a test or two, realise they shouldn't have been there in the first place and get someone else in- but don't get rid of Mitch Marsh under any circumstances. Rinse, repeat. Head will probably have a couple of poor tests and be replaced by whoever gets picked out of the hat. Likewise Labuschagne/whoever gets picked in that spot.

Judging players on overall first class averages isn't a great way to look at things. Michael Clake had a FC average of around 35 when he debut. We all know Harris had a very poor start to his career.

Harris since joining Victoria at the start of the 2016/17 season has averaged over 48

Lets compare the two's last 10 FC innings shall we?

39, 2, 0, 19, 3, 0, 89, 21, 13, 6 = 0 x 100's 1 x 50 at 19.2

109, 4, 16, 9, 26, 250*, 65, 7, 22, 67 = 2 x 100's 2 x 50's at 63.9

Yeah but what does this have to do with proving that Renshaw is horribly flawed and Harris is a vastly superior player? That's what I was responding to.

 

[nobbyiscool]

That's the thing- you can make an argument for Doolan, Wade, Cooper (ok probably not) or Harris based on their starts to the shield season. Do you go with one of the previous test failures or the new face? Honestly, whatever we do will probably just result in more chopping and changing. Pick them for a test or two, realise they shouldn't have been there in the first place and get someone else in- but don't get rid of Mitch Marsh under any circumstances. Rinse, repeat. Head will probably have a couple of poor tests and be replaced by whoever gets picked out of the hat. Likewise Labuschagne/whoever gets picked in that spot.

True 'dat.

Which I guess is the folly of this whole thread... 24 pages to discuss a first test team that I think we all believe is likely to be chopped and changed over the course of the 6-test summer. Multiple times in all likelihood.

For all the discussion around Renshaw, Finch, Marsh, Doolan, Head, Wade, Harris, Handscomb etc... would it surprise anyone to see at least 7 of those 8 players get a call up this summer?

 

[Wolfs]

IMO I think the starting XI for Adelaide

Renshaw - Selector's faith but Harris is in the wings, and Doolan has scored runs
Finch - Did well in UAE
Khawaja - Back from injury
SMarsh - Runs
Head - Incumbent but Wade is up there too. Not sure about Cooper's eligibility with him playing for NED
Mitch Marsh - Solid few knocks while no one else stood up at No. 6.
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

Again as many pointed out, there are a lot of potential bats that could be added in if Australia falter.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Still subject to a lot of rethinking:

Khawaja (ideally wouldn't open, but we have too many "ideally wouldn't open" and not any "ideally would open and are in form")
Harris
S Marsh (bad SA and UAE tours, but scored well in 3 of 4 Shield knocks)
Finch (reliable in UAE without putting big scores together but someone who can slow the rot is going to be vital)
Head (based partly on incumbency but he did play his part in that draw in the UAE too)
Wade (I don't think its a secret I'm no fan, but here we are)
Paine (C)(+)
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

12th: Tremain

There is no need to worry about a fifth bowler. If we're going to win, the four main bowlers have to do the job and a fifth bowler won't get much work (if any). Far better to bolster shaky batting. The fifth bowler got through bugger all overs per innings last home summer, so why have one if they aren't top six bat.

Would like to see Renshaw, Handscomb and Burns put on runs. Not that Handscomb has been bad, just not forcing his way in. None of that six is guaranteed to see the start of the Sri Lanka series.

But, I suspect Wolfs has the eleven the selectors will go with.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Still subject to a lot of rethinking:

Khawaja (ideally wouldn't open, but we have too many "ideally wouldn't open" and not any "ideally would open and are in form")
Harris
S Marsh (bad SA and UAE tours, but scored well in 3 of 4 Shield knocks)
Finch (reliable in UAE without putting big scores together but someone who can slow the rot is going to be vital)
Head (based partly on incumbency but he did play his part in that draw in the UAE too)
Wade (I don't think its a secret I'm no fan, but here we are)
Paine (C)(+)
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

12th: Tremain

There is no need to worry about a fifth bowler. If we're going to win, the four main bowlers have to do the job and a fifth bowler won't get much work (if any). Far better to bolster shaky batting. The fifth bowler got through bugger all overs per innings last home summer, so why have one if they aren't top six bat.

Would like to see Renshaw, Handscomb and Burns put on runs. Not that Handscomb has been bad, just not forcing his way in. None of that six is guaranteed to see the start of the Sri Lanka series.

But, I suspect Wolfs has the eleven the selectors will go with.

Don't mind it, the only slight thing is the batting order. SMarsh at 3 I just don't like. He's in form but can we bat him at 5 where he looks so much more comfortable.