Franklin potential GOAT?

[Sprout]

At his absolute best, I'd have to say there's been no more enjoyable player to watch. I also doubt we'll see a freakish athlete of his type for a while. His agility for his size is ridiculous.

A lot of people tend to look back more fondly. Some are capable of appreciating what's in front of them. He's a tremendous player and by the time his career ends I can see him being part of the discussion.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

He's certainly been the best forward of his era. It's a bit hard to compare forwards from an era where 65-70 goals will usually win you the Coleman to eras where there were multiple tons per year. Is kicking 3 goals a game in this era better than kicking 4-5 in past eras? Maybe, maybe not.

If Franklin wins the Coleman medal this year, how many past players have 2 Coleman medals each at two different clubs? If he kicks 4 goals this week against Brisbane (which is likely) then he will overtake both Wayne Carey and Peter Hudson and move into 17th spot on the all-time AFL goal kicking leader-board.

1. Tony Locket - 1360
2. Gordon Coventry - 1299
3. Jason Dunstall - 1254
4. Doug Wade - 1057
5. Gary Ablett 1030
6. Jack Titus 970
7. Matthew Lloyd 926
8. Leigh Matthews 915
9. Peter McKenna 874
10. Bernie Quinlan 817
11. Matthew Richardson 800
12. Kevin Bartlett 778
13. Saverio Rocca 748
14. Barry Hall 746
15. Stephen Kernahan 738
16. Bill Mohr 735
17. Peter Hudson 727
18. Wayne Carey 727
19. Lance Franklin 724 goals (3.2 goals per game)

I can think of two forwards that would have legitimate claims to being the GOAT forward that aren't even on that list.

Buddy will be the GOAT with regards to Indigenous players. Maybe he already is.

Greatest player since 2000.

Will be top 10 OAT by career end if no serious injuries.

Aside from the statistics, this player has done things in footy on many ocaissions that has not been done by anyone I have seen.
Watching for nearly 40 years.

Better than 5 time MVP Gary Ablett Junior?

 

[Sttew]

Gary Ablett kicked 1030 goals in 248 games at an average of 4.15 / game, but he did not play as a forward throughout his career, and was only full forward from late in 1989.

 

[Chuckie357]

Could be the GOAT if he learns how to deal with body contact and actually take a contested mark on the lead

 

[vWestCoast]

haha this is a ******* joke right?

Pretty much everyone above Franklin played the game when hardly any free kicks were called. Arm Chops, Push in the backs etc.

Franklin gets ******* breathed on in a marking contest and he gets a free kick.

1-10 has him comfortably and he's no way god damn close to Carey and if you want to focus on goals per ga,e than john coleman >

Franklin gets **** all free kicks for the amount of grabbing the defenders do. People just love talking shit about current day players.

20-30 years time the same people will be going "back in my day we had Buddy Franklin and he'd easily beat any forward today" as soon as someone dies or retires they turn into a gun but while playing 80% of people seem to never appreciate what they're doing Ablett probably the only exception.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Probably not but is an all-time great regardless.

One of the great entertainers that is for sure.

 

[Jade]

If you weren't around during the time a player played, and saw live what he did or how he changed the game, your opinions are lacking I don't care how many books you've read or tapes you've watched.

Mmmkay sunshine.

I'll leave Hudson for the Hawks fans, but lets concentrate on Coleman - ya know, the guy that funny little trinket is named after....

Coleman kicked 12 goals on debut. Franklin kicked..... none.

Coleman kicked ten or more goals on 12 occasions. Franklin thus far has managed it once.

In the five completed seasons of Colemans career, he kicked 100 goals three times, and a fourth season he'd kicked 97.

In his sixth season, where be blew his knee out, the freak had kicked 42 goals at an average of seven a game before his career ended.

The LOWEST goals per game average in a year for Coleman, is HIGHER than the best Franklin has ever achieved.

Coleman averaged around 5.5 goals a game in his career. Franklin sitting a tad over three right now.

Coleman was kept goalless once, just once in his entire career. Franklin was held goalless six times in his first season. I didn't bother counting past there.

Coleman achieved these feats in an era not conducive to heavy goal scoring. During the entire span of Colemans career only two other players managed to kick above eighty goals in a season. In four of his completed seasons, he'd kicked more than 30 goals more than the next most prolific scorer in the game.

So lets get something clear pumpkin; Franklin has about as much potential to be the GOAT as I do shitting mint flavoured gum drops.

 

[Affidavit]

Mmmkay sunshine.

I'll leave Hudson for the Hawks fans, but lets concentrate on Coleman - ya know, the guy that funny little trinket is named after....

Coleman kicked 12 goals on debut. Franklin kicked..... none.

Coleman kicked ten or more goals on 12 occasions. Franklin thus far has managed it once.

In the five completed seasons of Colemans career, he kicked 100 goals three times, and a fourth season he'd kicked 97.

In his sixth season, where be blew his knee out, the freak had kicked 42 goals at an average of seven a game before his career ended.

The LOWEST goals per game average in a year for Coleman, is HIGHER than the best Franklin has ever achieved.

Coleman averaged around 5.5 goals a game in his career. Franklin sitting a tad over three right now.

Coleman was kept goalless once, just once in his entire career. Franklin was held goalless six times in his first season. I didn't bother counting past there.

Coleman achieved these feats in an era not conducive to heavy goal scoring. During the entire span of Colemans career only two other players managed to kick above eighty goals in a season. In four of his completed seasons, he'd kicked more than 30 goals more than the next most prolific scorer in the game.

So lets get something clear pumpkin; Franklin has about as much potential to be the GOAT as I do shitting mint flavoured gum drops.

So you're saying there is a chance

 

[CyrilDaSquirrel]

You want to compare him to Ablett Snr?
Ok then, Gaz moved to full forward full time at the age of 32, during that first year he kicked the second fastest century of all time averaging almost 7.5 goals PER GAME and if not for injury and suspension probably would have kicked the 150.
First full time year at full forward.
At the age of 32.
He then kicked back to back to back centuries and won 3 Colemans in a row, aged 32, 33 and 34.
Which is a record.
The rest of his career he was played as a winger or forward flanker with periods leading from the square and had kicked 300 more goals from 20 more games than Franklin, who almost exclusively has played as a full forward.
Not even close, and that doesn't even bring in names like Lockett, Dunstall etc

No, he hasn't. For starters, Clarkson moved him into a more CHF/HFF role in 2009, but also there is almost no one that plays the traditional 'full forward' in the modern game anymore. Check these stats for example:

Year Handballs Goals
2005 73 21
2006 58 31
2007 92 73
2008 75 113
2009 129 67 <--- CHF Franklin, look at the handballs shoot up and the goals go down
2010 115 64
2011 151 82
2012 100 69
2013 115 60
2014 100 79

The thing about Ablett in '93 is that, yes, he kicked 124 goals in 17 games as a 32 year old which is incredible, but in the same year Modra kicked 129 and Dunstall 123. This is the OPs point - you need to compare them to their peers to get an idea of how impressive the achievements are.

The other interesting thing about Ablett when he moved to full forward in '93 is that he had 13 handballs... for the entire year. Basically every time he got the ball he was in range and shooting. He had 184 scoring shots from 246 disposals!! Try to wrap your head around that for a moment.

There's nothing wrong with those numbers, but it shows you how different the game was played then. If you look at say Buddy's 2011 (his peak year as a CHF in my opinion), he had 143 scoring shots on 401 disposals. The game is just different.

Having said all that, GA Snr > Franklin

 

[Brasher]

It's apples and oranges and we'll never have a general consensus...but a solid argument could be made that Franklin would have kicked as many if not more goals than Lockett/Dunstall etc. if he was allowed as much space in the forward line as them.

This made me laugh imagining Plugger and the Chief running back at pace into space in their forward 50 following a turn over resulting from their forward press.

Just goes to show how the game has changed and these sorts of comparisons are impossible.

 

[Donakebab]

He's only won a single B&F so far. Not the be all and end all of measuring sticks, but he'd want to snag quite a few in the back end of his career to even come close to GOAT.

 

[ThirtyThr33]

I'm bias but still rate Lloydy better. Ahh those were the days..

 

[Jade]

I'm bias but still rate Lloydy better. Ahh those were the days..

I don't think it's really biased at all. Lloyd pre-injuries was a clearly better player than Franklin.

 

[Tyler Hodges]

Mmmkay sunshine.

I'll leave Hudson for the Hawks fans, but lets concentrate on Coleman - ya know, the guy that funny little trinket is named after....

Coleman kicked 12 goals on debut. Franklin kicked..... none.

Coleman kicked ten or more goals on 12 occasions. Franklin thus far has managed it once.

In the five completed seasons of Colemans career, he kicked 100 goals three times, and a fourth season he'd kicked 97.

In his sixth season, where be blew his knee out, the freak had kicked 42 goals at an average of seven a game before his career ended.

The LOWEST goals per game average in a year for Coleman, is HIGHER than the best Franklin has ever achieved.

Coleman averaged around 5.5 goals a game in his career. Franklin sitting a tad over three right now.

Coleman was kept goalless once, just once in his entire career. Franklin was held goalless six times in his first season. I didn't bother counting past there.

Coleman achieved these feats in an era not conducive to heavy goal scoring. During the entire span of Colemans career only two other players managed to kick above eighty goals in a season. In four of his completed seasons, he'd kicked more than 30 goals more than the next most prolific scorer in the game.

So lets get something clear pumpkin; Franklin has about as much potential to be the GOAT as I do shitting mint flavoured gum drops.

I assume Coleman is your nominated Goat after such a passionate speale? It's a terrible thing, however the timing of colemans rise diminishes his status considering the youth stocks of Australian sport following World War II were the lowest they've ever been for obvious reasons. You've picked your GOAT based on a 98 gamer who doesn't even hold the best goals per game average, who played during the least competitive time in VFL history. Great debut though..
truly yours, Sunshine Pumpkin.

 

[ThirtyThr33]

I don't think it's really biased at all. Lloyd pre-injuries was a clearly better player than Franklin.

Yeah and I think he would of cracked 1000 if Knights played him out of the goal square instead of up the ground. Prick!

 

[Lerch]

I don't think it's really biased at all. Lloyd pre-injuries was a clearly better player than Franklin.

Lollllll
Clearly!

 

[Jade]

I assume Coleman is your nominated Goat after such a passionate speale? It's a terrible thing, however the timing of colemans diminishes his status considering the youth stocks of Australian sport following World War II were the lowest they've ever been for obvious reasons. You've picked your GOAT based on a 98 gamer who doesn't even hold the best goals per game average, who played during the least competitive time in VFL history. Great debut though..
truly yours, Sunshine Pumpkin.

Did I?

Where did I claim he was the greatest of all time? He was simply the easiest to go to with debunking this idiotic nonsense about Franklin being the best ever.

 

[Jade]

Lollllll
Clearly!

Quite clearly actually.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Wonderful player is Buddy and quite possibly the best player going around today, but I'd pull up well short of greatest of all time. Hasn't done enough to deserve that mantle.

 

[asanque]

Only worth a pick 20 a few years ago in his prime

 

[Tyler Hodges]

Did I?

Where did I claim he was the greatest of all time? He was simply the easiest to go to with debunking this idiotic nonsense about Franklin being the best ever.

*potentially *end of career. Don't bother trying to compare Coleman with Bud, the competition was simply non existent in post war Australia, Coleman was the only talent in a talentless era. Robbo has his debut last week in the ressies and dogged 13 last week against Kalamunda, who's defense exceeded all 1940's VFL sides. He's the new Coleman?

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

I'd take Carey over Franklin. The way Carey was able to change the outcome of a game is still unmatched imo. Those one handed marks, often on the run running back with the flight of the ball, on a regular basis were special. Just a freak. Even with all those groin injuries in his late 20's.

 

[randyzany]

Franklin gets **** all free kicks for the amount of grabbing the defenders do. People just love talking shit about current day players.

20-30 years time the same people will be going "back in my day we had Buddy Franklin and he'd easily beat any forward today" as soon as someone dies or retires they turn into a gun but while playing 80% of people seem to never appreciate what they're doing Ablett probably the only exception.

appreciate what they're doing Ablett probably the only exception.

And that's mainly due to playing for an irrelevant franchise. If he still played for Geelong I doubt he'd get the same amount of praise he does for the suns. He certainly didn't from '07 to '10 and those are arguably his best years.

 

[CyrilDaSquirrel]

I don't think it's really biased at all. Lloyd pre-injuries was a clearly better player than Franklin.

I thnk I've been over this with you before, and I said that it is a fruitless comparison, since they don't play nearly the same position.

Handballs are a good proxy for how far up the ground a forward is playing.
In 13 seasons at full forward (1995 - 2007), the most Lloyd ever handballed was 77 times in 1998.

Compare that to Franklin's 2011 as I listed above, with 151 handballs. Franklin has played most of his career as a CHF to make the most of his athleticism (or at least, a mutant oversized forward flanker might be a better description). Lloyd was a stay at home full-forward. It's like comparing Dunstall and Carey.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Too early to tell. Hasn't he got like 12 years on his contract still to run?