Opinion From the outside looking in

[Darealrath]

How do you prove tanking in the AFL? Over here, NBA teams do it and there is no punishment.

Baseball does it to a lesser degree, but it does not matter as much since baseball draft picks are not as important as basketball ones are. Also, if anyone could please let me know if the other facts I laid out about the other teams are correct.

How do you even define tanking, let alone prove it?

Teams do it to win...just later on. The players who take the field are still trying to win, and the coaches usually too, it's just the administration is not giving them the best chance at that moment (but is trying to give them a better chance later on).

 

[kober3742]

How do you even define tanking, let alone prove it?

Teams do it to win...just later on. The players who take the field are still trying to win, and the coaches usually too, it's just the administration is not giving them the best chance at that moment (but is trying to give them a better chance later on).

I do know the definition of tanking and the idea that you lose now to win later. I read a wikipedia page on the topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Football_Club_tanking_scandal. Some of those bullet points do seem a bit off and they were fined for that. However, that was back in 2009. Yes, that was bad but not bad enough to totally switch allegiances.

 

[Darealrath]

I do know the definition of tanking and the idea that you lose now to win later. I read a wikipedia page on the topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Football_Club_tanking_scandal. Some of those bullet points do seem a bit off and they were fined for that. However, that was back in 2009. Yes, that was bad but not bad enough to totally switch allegiances.

But it's a lot more complicated than lose now to win later. Tanking teams still win games. It's more like not giving yourself the best chance to win. But then by that definition even the Essendon team in 2000 would be guilty, like when Sheedy put Lloyd to CHB against carlton, or took off Hird at 3 quarter time quite often.

Just saying it's so difficult to define and thus prove which is why it's so rarely punished.

 

[kober3742]

But it's a lot more complicated than lose now to win later. Tanking teams still win games. It's more like not giving yourself the best chance to win. But then by that definition even the Essendon team in 2000 would be guilty, like when Sheedy put Lloyd to CHB against carlton, or took off Hird at 3 quarter time quite often.

Just saying it's so difficult to define and thus prove which is why it's so rarely punished.

Understand that, was Melbourne's tanking significantly more outlandish than other examples of tanking. You gave me some Essendon examples, but are there some other ones, or is tanking not worried about anymore.

 

[Darealrath]

Understand that, was Melbourne's tanking significantly more outlandish than other examples of tanking. You gave me some Essendon examples, but are there some other ones, or is tanking not worried about anymore.

The people running the league care most about how things look. It would be naieve to think it's not still happening but as long as teams are not too obvious about it the league won't actively pursue. And it seems teams are a bit smarter now, plus the media and supporters are probably also more understanding of the realities.

With Melbourne word got out that their senior people discussed it so the league felt compelled to act.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Carlton’s big issue of this scale was systematic salary cap cheating. Prior to salary cap introduction Carlton were known as the rich man’s team with a tendency to try to buy premierships rather than earn them by developing home grown talent. Capitalism in footy form. That kind of arrogance explains some of Essendon’s fierce rivalry with Carlton.

Speaking of rivalries - having someone to hate makes footy great and is a good reason for you to switch from Melb to Essendon. Melbourne’s rivalries just aren’t as epic as the ones the Bombers have going. Hawthorn (who we all tend to refer to as Hawthorne just to annoy their supporters) are the team that I personal love to see us beat the most but we also have very strong rivalries against Collingwood (the scum), North Melb (the little brother who lives just down the road and can’t get his shit together but blames you and your success), West Coast (wave your jacket in the air when we win), and even Sydney (lots of narrow losses to the bastards)

Melb is everyone’s second team - not seen as a threat. I have a soft spot for them for sure, but Essendon plays a series of massive games every year.

 

[eth-dog]

Carlton’s big issue of this scale was systematic salary cap cheating. Prior to salary cap introduction Carlton were known as the rich man’s team with a tendency to try to buy premierships rather than earn them by developing home grown talent. Capitalism in footy form. That kind of arrogance explains some of Essendon’s fierce rivalry with Carlton.

Speaking of rivalries - having someone to hate makes footy great and is a good reason for you to switch from Melb to Essendon. Melbourne’s rivalries just aren’t as epic as the ones the Bombers have going. Hawthorn (who we all tend to refer to as Hawthorne just to annoy their supporters) are the team that I personal love to see us beat the most but we also have very strong rivalries against Collingwood (the scum), North Melb (the little brother who lives just down the road and can’t get his shit together but blames you and your success), West Coast (wave your jacket in the air when we win), and even Sydney (lots of narrow losses to the bastards)

Melb is everyone’s second team - not seen as a threat. I have a soft spot for them for sure, but Essendon plays a series of massive games every year.

I thought Carlton were the scum and Collingwood were the filth?

Also Richmond are ahead of Norf, WC and Sydney. *Cue West Aussies shouting that down*

 

[kober3742]

Carlton’s big issue of this scale was systematic salary cap cheating. Prior to salary cap introduction Carlton were known as the rich man’s team with a tendency to try to buy premierships rather than earn them by developing home grown talent. Capitalism in footy form. That kind of arrogance explains some of Essendon’s fierce rivalry with Carlton.

Speaking of rivalries - having someone to hate makes footy great and is a good reason for you to switch from Melb to Essendon. Melbourne’s rivalries just aren’t as epic as the ones the Bombers have going. Hawthorn (who we all tend to refer to as Hawthorne just to annoy their supporters) are the team that I personal love to see us beat the most but we also have very strong rivalries against Collingwood (the scum), North Melb (the little brother who lives just down the road and can’t get his shit together but blames you and your success), West Coast (wave your jacket in the air when we win), and even Sydney (lots of narrow losses to the bastards)

Melb is everyone’s second team - not seen as a threat. I have a soft spot for them for sure, but Essendon plays a series of massive games every year.

Thank you for that good breakdown. I can do some investigative work, but to hear it from the long time fans are great. I don't really hate any teams, as to hate one team you have to have a long time affinity for another. In my NFL case, I love the Bears, but hate the Packers. I find the Packers fans insufferable as well as not liking the football team I don't think I will switch my allegiance totally, but due to the information and good conversation I have had on the Essendon board, I might favor them as well. It will be hard for me to dislike Collingwood, as over the past few years I like their style (and am really impressed by Sidebottom). I could see myself going against Hawthorn and Richmond as they have won a lot recently. Would there be any other reason to hate Hawthorn and Richmond other than that? You used strong language in describing Sydney. Is it because of the recent games, or do they have some really unlikable players in your guys' opinions? Is it residual hatred for Buddy after having been at Hawthorn for so long? I find this all interesting.

 

[kober3742]

Thank you for that good breakdown. I can do some investigative work, but to hear it from the long time fans are great. I don't really hate any teams, as to hate one team you have to have a long time affinity for another. In my NFL case, I love the Bears, but hate the Packers. I find the Packers fans insufferable as well as not liking the football team I don't think I will switch my allegiance totally, but due to the information and good conversation I have had on the Essendon board, I might favor them as well. It will be hard for me to dislike Collingwood, as over the past few years I like their style (and am really impressed by Sidebottom). I could see myself going against Hawthorn and Richmond as they have won a lot recently. Would there be any other reason to hate Hawthorn and Richmond other than that? You used strong language in describing Sydney. Is it because of the recent games, or do they have some really unlikable players in your guys' opinions? Is it residual hatred for Buddy after having been at Hawthorn for so long? I find this all interesting.

I have watched all the games so far this year, and still have no idea what to make of the Bombers. You all have been very instructive about your team from an unseasoned AFL watcher. I have read some message boards after your games, but am looking at a more holistic opinion. Is Essendon's problem, you just dont have many big forwards? McKernan seems good, not sure after that. You seem to have small midfielders, which good potentially be an advantage on the ground/ with regards to speed, but that does not happen. I hope you guys keep winning, but the games appear to be getting much harder. Your opinions please ...

 

[MattyB3150]

I have watched all the games so far this year, and still have no idea what to make of the Bombers. You all have been very instructive about your team from an unseasoned AFL watcher. I have read some message boards after your games, but am looking at a more holistic opinion. Is Essendon's problem, you just dont have many big forwards? McKernan seems good, not sure after that. You seem to have small midfielders, which good potentially be an advantage on the ground/ with regards to speed, but that does not happen. I hope you guys keep winning, but the games appear to be getting much harder. Your opinions please ...

Unfortunately the Essendon Football Club don't know how to draft a Big Bodied Inside Midfielder. We either draft short mids or try and convert defenders or forwards into midfielders. Everyone knows this except for the club themselves. You look at teams like Collingwood and they have a handful of them.
We also need Joe Daniher in the team for our forward line to function. McKernan would be great as a second or third tall but he gets the best defender generally every week.

 

[kober3742]

Unfortunately the Essendon Football Club don't know how to draft a Big Bodied Inside Midfielder. We either draft short mids or try and convert defenders or forwards into midfielders. Everyone knows this except for the club themselves. You look at teams like Collingwood and they have a handful of them.
We also need Joe Daniher in the team for our forward line to function. McKernan would be great as a second or third tall but he gets the best defender generally every week.

Thank you for the opinion. It seems to me that Daniher is a lost cause. Is he one that will unfortunately fail to ever be healthy? When he plays, he is quite good (apart from the somewhat regular kicking problems). Do you have a good stockpile of draft picks coming up or an average number? You should try to draft 3 of them and see what sticks.