Gender balanced music festival line ups

[SSwans2011]

I think the article you copied this from has the Hottest 100 thing back to front in that females feature more than males, which is what I was talking about to begin with, it's always going to be hard to get a gig at Falls if your band isn't getting air play on the government funded youth radio station.

Honestly, I'm all for the industry at it's core fixing the issue of gender inequality within it's own ranks, a lot of companies seem to be doing the same. However, men and women are neither better or worse than one another when it comes to creating some exceptional music, so why belittle women by not booking them solely for the quality of their art rather than their gender?

No, the Hottest 100 does typically feature more women than men. It definitely wasn't the case 20 years ago (have been listening to a few of the older counts), but it is consistently the case now.

I agree neither are better or worse, but for some reason the representation at festivals isn't even match the representation on radio - which is already a bit of an under-representation mostly, so it is a bit alarming.

 

[brahj]

No, the Hottest 100 does typically feature more women than men. It definitely wasn't the case 20 years ago (have been listening to a few of the older counts), but it is consistently the case now.

Really, I could have swore this whole thing came about because the Hottest 100 was such a sausage fest?

 

[Bostonian]

Most local and small Australian bands (which is where the problem is occurring) don't even have roadies. Believe me, I go to at least 1-2 gigs a week. You seem to be out-of-the-loop.

Perhaps they studied music out of interest/for fun in the past, but I think you are GREATLY exaggerating the number of people that would do that now. I daresay you are a longtime out of high-school if you truly believe that to be the case. If you were studying music in high-school past maybe grade 10 nowadays but lacked musical talent, you would basically be shooting yourself in the foot. Any half-decent school would highly advise against it, unless you already play an instrument. It's not just music as a subject either, it's also music programs within schools.

But anyway, let's look past high-school, I just thought that it was an interesting little stat that more women study music in high-school, but don't pursue it.

Here's some interesting facts (not a biased anecdotal opinion) for you:

• 45% of qualified musicians and music students are women, yet they make up just one-fifth of Australasian Performing Rights Association (APRA) membership
• triple j’s Hottest 100, an annual countdown of the nation’s most popular songs, consistently features more women than men
• Male acts tend to dominate festival line-ups
• Female musicians earn less than male ones
• Women are less likely to win major music awards, including ARIAs, AIRs and J Awards
• Just 28% of “senior and strategic roles in key industry organisations” are held by women
• Women are underrepresented on the boards of all national industry peak bodies and are completely absent from the ARIA and AIR boards

http://musicaustralia.org.au/2017/0...-inequality-in-the-australian-music-industry/

I'll also tag brahj at this point, as the above article and the report contained within does a good job of explaining why the lack of female representation at festivals is such an issue.

See all of this means little when you don't refer to any specific genres. Are you talking about rock or r'n'b or any of the hundred other genres?

If we're talking about rock, then that's simple. People prefer male rock voices.

So when signing artists, you sign what the market wants.

That's not inequality, that's the free market responding to preferences.

 

[JackOutback]

Really, I could have swore this whole thing came about because the Hottest 100 was such a sausage fest?

Perhaps it was the talk about the fact a woman had never topped the Hottest 100 solo?

 

[brahj]

Perhaps it was the talk about the fact a woman had never topped the Hottest 100 solo?

Maybe. Could also be the Mandela effect.

 

[Stemp Fester]

I believe I read in Australia, females study music in high-school at higher rates than males

I'd be amazed if this figure wasn't heavily distorted by private schools (especially girls only schools) where 'studying music' could be more or less read as attending a mandatory class. Both of my sisters for example attended a private school where learning an instrument was something they had to do - neither continued in any way though once high school was finished. I on the other hand went to two different public schools where there were no music programs at all so didn't even get the opportunity to begin with - yet I've been playing guitar now for close to 30 years (and would have loved to take music at school)...

 

[SSwans2011]

I'd be amazed if this figure wasn't heavily distorted by private schools (especially girls only schools) where 'studying music' could be more or less read as attending a mandatory class. Both of my sisters for example attended a private school where learning an instrument was something they had to do - neither continued in any way though once high school was finished. I on the other hand went to two different public schools where there were no music programs at all so didn't even get the opportunity to begin with - yet I've been playing guitar now for close to 30 years (and would have loved to take music at school)...

Sure, I don't want to talk about the high-school fact too much. It was something I found more so interesting than anything else. The fact of the matter is though, 45% of musicians are females, yet they receive not even close to that much air time.

Really, I could have swore this whole thing came about because the Hottest 100 was such a sausage fest?

I thought it was the Falls line-up and Camp Cope's response which prompted most of it? I'm not too sure, I don't actually listen to triple j, though I do know that they are doing pretty well in this field (40% female music I believe).

See all of this means little when you don't refer to any specific genres. Are you talking about rock or r'n'b or any of the hundred other genres?

If we're talking about rock, then that's simple. People prefer male rock voices.

So when signing artists, you sign what the market wants.

That's not inequality, that's the free market responding to preferences.

Good God. It's not about what people prefer, it's about what is being played. As again, someone who does work in this field, there is MORE than enough talent from both males and females for radio airplay to be close to equal and that's not even what we're talking about.

Also, your point about vocalists is flawed, because most of the figures relate to music INVOLVING a female. They can play an instrument, be a producer, or mixer, and have a male vocalist, and it would STILL count. We aren't talking strictly-female music when this issue comes up. We're talking all music INVOLVING a female.

 

[Bostonian]

Good God. It's not about what people prefer, it's about what is being played. As again, someone who does work in this field, there is MORE than enough talent from both males and females for radio airplay to be close to equal and that's not even what we're talking about.

Not sure if you understand how music works...

My oath it's about what people prefer. You only hear what's being played because of what the market is demanding.

You think we'd be hearing Bieber s**t if it wasn't for a large amount of females having really bad taste in music?

Also, your point about vocalists is flawed, because most of the figures relate to music INVOLVING a female. They can play an instrument, be a producer, or mixer, and have a male vocalist, and it would STILL count. We aren't talking strictly-female music when this issue comes up. We're talking all music INVOLVING a female.

Have you ever considered the fact men are overall better at this field of work?

 

[JackOutback]

Not sure if you understand how music works...

My oath it's about what people prefer. You only hear what's being played because of what the market is demanding.

You think we'd be hearing Bieber s**t if it wasn't for a large amount of females having really bad taste in music?

The market very often goes exactly where it's told to go; I thought that was bleedin' obvious by now.

Have you ever considered the fact men are overall better at this field of work?

No, because it's ******* ridiculous. Unless you are suggesting being male makes you genetically predisposed to being better at music?

 

[Bostonian]

The market very often goes exactly where it's told to go; I thought that was bleedin' obvious by now.

It's not obvious because it's not true. There has to be a ground swell before they will throw money at it.

How many genre phases need to be pointed out to you to make this obvious?

No, because it's ******* ridiculous. Unless you are suggesting being male makes you genetically predisposed to being better at music?

Gosh what a radical idea. Men are better at some things than women and vice versa. Stop the press.

Men are better electric guitarists than women. There's no debate, it's just how it is. You can cry and have all the affirmative action you like but this will never change.

 

[superfraser]

Sure, I don't want to talk about the high-school fact too much. It was something I found more so interesting than anything else.

Earlier you were talking about studying Music post-Year 10.

More male students completed (VCE VET) Music in 2016. Evidenced by the Graded Distribution report.

I don't care about the debate, but for those who do, it would be great if "facts" were factual.

**I chose 2016 because 2017 has not been published yet, and I can't be bothered trawling through years worth. If 2016 is an anomaly, feel free to correct me.

 

[JP Sauce]

Just get a female opener, that’ll fill the quota.

 

[JackOutback]

It's not obvious because it's not true. There has to be a ground swell before they will throw money at it.

How many genre phases need to be pointed out to you to make this obvious?



Gosh what a radical idea. Men are better at some things than women and vice versa. Stop the press.

Men are better electric guitarists than women. There's no debate, it's just how it is. You can cry and have all the affirmative action you like but this will never change.

Men would be better than women at, say, physical labour. But if you're saying being a man makes you better at electric guitaring and not, say, that women may be being discouraged from pursuing music as a career, well, that's embarrassing and laughable.

 

[SSwans2011]

Have you ever considered the fact men are overall better at this field of work?

Oh, you could have just said this at the start of the thread, so I didn't waste my time responding to you.

Earlier you were talking about studying Music post-Year 10.

More male students completed (VCE VET) Music in 2016. Evidenced by the Graded Distribution report.

I don't care about the debate, but for those who do, it would be great if "facts" were factual.

**I chose 2016 because 2017 has not been published yet, and I can't be bothered trawling through years worth. If 2016 is an anomaly, feel free to correct me.

Thanks for those stats. Pretty interesting reading, actually. Those figures only apply to Victoria however.

If we are looking at the data Australia-wide, the "facts" are indeed factual:

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/progr...-gap-in-the-australian-music-industry/8328952

That article is pretty good if you are interested.

 

[SSwans2011]

Men would be better than women at, say, physical labour. But if you're saying being a man makes you better at electric guitaring and not, say, that women may be being discouraged from pursuing music as a career, well, that's embarrassing and laughable.

Not to mention that music isn't exactly dominated by the electric guitar right now, regardless. It's a bizarre point.

I wonder if people that believe men are better at music also believe that transgender women have an inherent advantage over other women as musicians.

 

[Taylor]

The threshold of attractiveness for a public to listen to music of an artist is higher for women.

The guy with equal talent will progress further, but the far more attractive woman with less talent will progress further still.

 

[SSwans2011]

I will, however, correct myself and say that my fact about the Hottest 100 having more female musicians or groups containing male musicians than all-male groups was wrong. That being said, it certainly is a lot more even than you would expect were you to look at festival line-ups (i.e. it was 51/49 for this year's count, while I believe Falls Festival was something like 80% all-male acts).

The threshold of attractiveness for a public to listen to music of an artist is higher for women.

The guy with equal talent will progress further, but the far more attractive woman with less talent will progress further still.

Interesting point. Also worth noting that a lot of the bigger male rock bands in Australia right now are neither particularly attractive or musically talented (or at least said talent does not appear in their music).

Take Dune Rats or The Chats, for example. Neither make music that is particularly impressive, and, especially in the case of Dune Rats, the songwriting is awful, but they still get huge airtime on triple j. I know this is simply my opinion, but let's take a look at, for example, their song 'Braindead' which featured on the Hottest 100 this year.

Getting bored, fat and ignored and
You're nothing, you're nothing
Don't want more, shutting the door and
You're nothing, you're nothing
A *in F, D at best and
You're nothing, you're nothing
You're nothing, you're nothing

Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you

Sometimes I go blind staring at the sun

I'm unloved, dead outta luck and
You're nothing, you're nothing
It's too much giving a * and
You're nothing, you're nothing
Blah blah blah blah blah blah
You're nothing, you're nothing
You're nothing, you're nothing

Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you

Sometimes I go blind staring at the sun
Sometimes I go blind staring at the sun

Bad times work out fine
Good times on my mind
Sometimes I go blind staring at the sun

Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you
Nothing seems to teach you ah yeah
Nothing seems to teach you

Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah...

Plenty more where that came from (refer to '6 Pack', 'Bullshit' and 'Dalai Llama, Big Banana, Marijuana' - which is literally just those words repeated). Not exactly screaming talented, but they get ridciulous airtime on Triple J and feature at seemingly every festival. For that reason, and there are plenty of other examples, I simply cannot buy the whole 'talent' argument a lot of people like to use.

 

[Schauermann]

Female muscians are hard to find. Wanted to built a Mentors coverband but couldn't get 3 nude females to play the instruments while I get drunk on stage...

 

[mr bagcroft]

Plus with the ability to make decent sounding recordings at home for **** all.

Be careful with the word "decent". Some can, many dont have a clue. If I give you a hammer and a saw, can you build a house?

 

[Redline]

Bluesfest and Unify the latest to cop it for gender balance on their lineups. In Bluesfest case it was only their first announcement.

I don't get it, I think most promoters do their best. It's an awfully hard job booking festival lineups. I am a white male so I can accept that I am missing the point.

 

[hellboy1975]

It's pretty tough - you can only book who's available. I doubt very much that the organisers of those (or any) festivals are actively picking male only bands.

Asking why promoters aren't booking more female acts is too far down the chain - the real problem is why aren't there more acts to book?

 

[dav3]

F**king gender balance......... Just get the best artists you can get, if that's mostly men or mostly women then so be it. What's next? They've have to make sure there's equal amounts of gay, lesbian, and trans artists too?

Are they "copping it" from anyone that actually matters? Or just some random Facebook/Twitter clowns with too much time on their hands?

 

[Redline]

F**king gender balance......... Just get the best artists you can get, if that's mostly men or mostly women then so be it. What's next? They've have to make sure there's equal amounts of gay, lesbian, and trans artists too?

Are they "copping it" from anyone that actually matters? Or just some random Facebook/Twitter clowns with too much time on their hands?

Just the usual activist groups, it seems the main talking point now when a lineup comes out.

 

[Magus]

Festivals are crappy. The radio is crappy. Support the artists you want to support.

 

[spinynorman]

If it means The Wombats have to be dropped from a festival lineup then I'm definitely all for it.

They've have to make sure there's equal amounts of gay, lesbian, and trans artists too?

LGBT musicians and black musicians have led the way for the most interesting music for several decades now. An "all minority" music festival lineup would probably have the best lineup at an Australian festival in years, and would have the added benefit of upsetting insecure straight white men. All positives, no negatives, really.