General MFC Discussion 2.0

[Dory_77]

He got handed a list that was being talked about as one of the best in the league and hasn’t been able to win half his games, that’s fairly putrid

People thought we had an amazing up and coming list at the end of 2010 too, especially after we flogged the Swans late that season. That turned out well...

The fact the list is talked up by media nuffs shouldn't be the bar that he's measured by. I agree he's underdelivered and the pressure should be on by end of this year if we have another mediocre return.

 

[Demon bhoy]

People thought we had an amazing up and coming list at the end of 2010 too, especially after we flogged the Swans late that season. That turned out well...

The fact the list is talked up by media nuffs shouldn't be the bar that he's measured by. I agree he's underdelivered and the pressure should be on by end of this year if we have another mediocre return.

It was a lot more than a few media nuffs it was a broad consensus, he’s proven so far to be totally out of he’s depth having been gifted the job, finals this year should be the minimum requirement but I think he’ll be saved by circumstances, as others have pointed out not a good time to sack a coach with years left on a contract

 

[Bluelegs]

He got handed a list that was being talked about as one of the best in the league and hasn’t been able to win half his games, that’s fairly putrid

Remember when Dean Bailey's team in 2010 were smashing the Swans and Bruce McAvaney growled "THE DEES ARE GONNA BE SOMETHING!"

That turned out well.

Young lists get talked up all the time, people just assume that a list will be awesome because it's high draft picks that have shown some flashes of brilliance. If you're basing your judgement of a coach on what commentators and journalists said years ago then I don't know what to tell you.

If a coach got handed a premiership team only to fall into the bottom six in their first year then that is putrid. Goodwin was handed a young list with plenty of holes that hadn't made finals in a decade. He took the club on an upward trajectory until crashing down last year. That is not great, but putrid? Please.

 

[AmericanAFL]

The only question I have is, whether or not Aussies will accept the 2020 flag winner as legitimate?

I’m actually hoping for a resounding “NO” here. It seems like that all but ensures the Dees will be victorious.

 

[TheCount]

The only question I have is, whether or not Aussies will accept the 2020 flag winner as legitimate?

I’m actually hoping for a resounding “NO” here. It seems like that all but ensures the Dees will be victorious.

There is probably an argument to say it’ll be more legitimate than most, given it’ll be the first time the fixture won’t have had an impact and everyone has just played each other once, with the only obvious downside the fact that a few teams are having to play out of hubs to kick things off at least.

 

[Bluelegs]

The only question I have is, whether or not Aussies will accept the 2020 flag winner as legitimate?

I’m actually hoping for a resounding “NO” here. It seems like that all but ensures the Dees will be victorious.

IDK, I think you could make an argument for so many flags not counting if you start down that road. The AFL has only had 18 sides for the past 8 years. Before that it was 16 and before that it was 12 and the competition was held purely within Victoria Do those flags count anymore when it's that much more unlikely to win one now? The League has persisted through WWI and WWII where many of the players left the game to fight and clubs had to sit out of the competition entirely. The winning teams still hold onto the flags they won in that era.

You will find people that can put an asterix next to any premiership for whatever reason, but I'll grant you this is a season unlike any we've had in our history. You still have to be the best under the given circumstances to win it.

 

[HANDSOLO]

Also people tend to get better at the job they're in with time and experience.

many but not all

there is also the Peter principle which might be more apt in this case

 

[Proper Gander]

CRAZY GOODY WATCH



at 1m10s Goody mentions that Harley Bennell will play either as an inside midfielder or forward of centre

He even looks pretty crazy there.

 

[Bluelegs]

many but not all

there is also the Peter principle which might be more apt in this case

Maybe. In any case you don't really know unless you persist. I remember the swathes of Richmond and Collingwood supporters calling for their coaches respective heads just a few years ago. He's not going anywhere for a couple of years I expect so at least we won't die wondering.

 

[jhong]

The only question I have is, whether or not Aussies will accept the 2020 flag winner as legitimate?

I’m actually hoping for a resounding “NO” here. It seems like that all but ensures the Dees will be victorious.

I suspect the supporters of which ever team does win it won't care how or why or whatever . A win is a win .

 

[Demon bhoy]

Remember when Dean Bailey's team in 2010 were smashing the Swans and Bruce McAvaney growled "THE DEES ARE GONNA BE SOMETHING!"

That turned out well.

Young lists get talked up all the time, people just assume that a list will be awesome because it's high draft picks that have shown some flashes of brilliance. If you're basing your judgement of a coach on what commentators and journalists said years ago then I don't know what to tell you.

If a coach got handed a premiership team only to fall into the bottom six in their first year then that is putrid. Goodwin was handed a young list with plenty of holes that hadn't made finals in a decade. He took the club on an upward trajectory until crashing down last year. That is not great, but putrid? Please.

You don’t have to tell me anything, he was gifted a list already on an upward trajectory that was considered almost unanimously as one of the best in the league and has won less than half his games in 3 and a half years in the top job, Putrid.

 

[Bluelegs]

You don’t have to tell me anything, he was gifted a list already on an upward trajectory that was considered almost unanimously as one of the best in the league and has won less than half his games in 3 and a half years in the top job, Putrid.

What are you basing that on? "Almost unanimously" is a lot of people. If anything I remember there were more doubters of us because we had been such a basketcase for such a long time.

This was our actual list in 2017:

2017 MELBOURNE LIST
1. Brayshaw, Angus
2. Bugg, Tomas
3. Filipovic, Lachlan (rookie)
4. Frost, Sam
5. Garland, Colin
6. Garlett, Jeff
7. Gawn, Max
8. Hannan, Mitch
9. Harmes, James
10. Hibberd, Michael
11. Hogan, Jesse
12. Hulett, Liam
13. Hunt, Jayden
14. Jetta, Neville
15. Johnstone, Dion
16. Jones, Nathan
17. Keilty, Declan (rookie)
18. Kennedy, Ben
19. Kennedy-Harris, Jay
20. Kent, Dean
21. King, Mitch
22. Lewis, Jordan
23. Lumumba, Heritier
24. Maynard, Corey (category B rookie)
25. McDonald, Oscar
26. McDonald, Tom
27. McKenna, Pat
28. Melksham, Jake
29. Neal-Bullen, Alex
30. Oliver, Clayton
31. Pedersen, Cameron
32. Petracca, Christian
33. Salem, Christian
34. Smith, Joel (category B rookie)
35. Smith, Tim (rookie)
36. Spencer, Jake
37. Stretch, Billy
38. Trengove, Jack
39. Tyson, Dom
40. vandenBerg, Aaron
41. Vince, Bernie
42. Viney, Jack
43. Wagner, Josh
44. Watts, Jack
45. Weideman, Sam
46. White, Mitch (rookie)

The full squad: Melbourne’s 2017 list

Melbourne has finalised its list of 46 for 2017

www.melbournefc.com.au

Bolded are the players who are still on our list

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that almost all the football world was frothing at the mouth at that

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

What are you basing that on? "Almost unanimously" is a lot of people. If anything I remember there were more doubters of us because we had been such a basketcase for such a long time.

This was our actual list in 2017:

The full squad: Melbourne’s 2017 list

Melbourne has finalised its list of 46 for 2017

www.melbournefc.com.au

Bolded are the players who are still on our list

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that almost all the football world was frothing at the mouth at that

Yeah the list is in better shape now. The biggest difference is the experience we've lost in that time - Jones and Hibberd have faded (and Jetta to an extent), Vince, Watts and Lewis are gone and Garlett was peaking as a small forward. Also Hogan was really holding our forward line together. But overall we've cleared out a lot of dregs, just don't have many good senior players (and the ones we do have are very injury prone). But Roos hardly left the list in some invincible shape, Goodwin's done a good job of seeing it get to a competitive standard.

 

[Dory_77]

Predictions like that and ChAmPiOn DaTa RaNkInGs are always a bit scattergun and skewed depending on the assumptions and stats underneath. We won lots of contested ball and had a pretty miserly defence under Roos which made us see better than we were. We looked good in the stats people cared about at the time so they figured if we could work on other areas it'd all fall together perfectly.
The list still had limitations and needed work to continue improving and footy teams have never improved year on year in a 45° line.

 

[schmuttt]

Whilst it was incredibly disappointing to miss finals the way we did in 2017 I thought our best footy that year (Without Gawn for most of it) was excellent, and it was only a case of getting the players mentality right to step up to a top 4 side. In 2018 we stopped dropping as many games to s**t teams but got whacked by any half decent side until the last 6 weeks of the season.

No chance Goody is sacked this year, club simply can't afford it right now. If we have an abysmal start again next year though I reckon he'll be gone by mid year if we're out of contention.

 

[00Stinger]

Mark Neeld was putrid. Goodwin has been ordinary.

A good season, one really good season and one poor season = ordinary?

 

[Fork n Hell]

in chronological order i'd say under Goodwin we've had one C grade season, one B grade season, and one F season.
and i dunno what average the works out to be lol, probably a C- overall?
I think we might just be treading water under Goodwin. but he won't be getting the arse in this current environment, so he's got the best part of the next year and a half to pull his finger out and lift this team up the ladder. no excuses if he doesn't and he should probably fall on his sword if he can't get it done.

 

[Bluelegs]

A good season, one really good season and one poor season = ordinary?

Ordinary means average so yeah I'd say so.

 

[Demon bhoy]

What are you basing that on? "Almost unanimously" is a lot of people. If anything I remember there were more doubters of us because we had been such a basketcase for such a long time.

This was our actual list in 2017:

The full squad: Melbourne’s 2017 list

Melbourne has finalised its list of 46 for 2017

www.melbournefc.com.au

Bolded are the players who are still on our list

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that almost all the football world was frothing at the mouth at that

Who said frothing at the mouth, if your trying to prove that you and I have different recollections from 3+ years ago I’m happy to concede that, but I’m happy to stand by mine.

Goodwin was gifted a list with the best Ruck in the league the best young KPF, 4 top 10 draft picks from the previous few years and some quality veterans with blokes like Viney, Harmes and Salem all seemingly headed in the right direction. There was a reason Jordan Lewis only wanted to come to Melbourne and it was one from my recollection the vast majority agreed with.On top of that he was baby sat by Roos for 2 years.

Goodwin has lost more games than he has won, his game style is from 2005 and his development of players has been non existent, his time in charge has been nothing short of putrid but let’s hope he can turn it around as it appears we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

 

[schmuttt]

Who said frothing at the mouth, if your trying to prove that you and I have different recollections from 3+ years ago I’m happy to concede that, but I’m happy to stand by mine.

Goodwin was gifted a list with the best Ruck in the league the best young KPF, 4 top 10 draft picks from the previous few years and some quality veterans with blokes like Viney, Harmes and Salem all seemingly headed in the right direction. There was a reason Jordan Lewis only wanted to come to Melbourne and it was one from my recollection the vast majority agreed with.On top of that he was baby sat by Roos for 2 years.

Goodwin has lost more games than he has won, his game style is from 2005 and his development of players has been non existent, his time in charge has been nothing short of putrid but let’s hope he can turn it around as it appears we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

We certainly were hyped end of 2016 and in 2017, we were even premiership favourite at one stage before the start of 2019 season.

 

[Bluelegs]

Who said frothing at the mouth, if your trying to prove that you and I have different recollections from 3+ years ago I’m happy to concede that, but I’m happy to stand by mine.

Oh my god, do we really need to go into this level of semantics? You claimed that our list prior to the start of the 2017 season was considered almost unanimously as one of the best in the league. Fine. I cannot look at that list and believe that claim. There are so many holes in the list it's not funny. That's why more than half of it has been turned over.

Goodwin was gifted a list with the best Ruck in the league the best young KPF, 4 top 10 draft picks from the previous few years and some quality veterans with blokes like Viney, Harmes and Salem all seemingly headed in the right direction. There was a reason Jordan Lewis only wanted to come to Melbourne and it was one from my recollection the vast majority agreed with.On top of that he was baby sat by Roos for 2 years.

Goodwin has lost more games than he has won, his game style is from 2005 and his development of players has been non existent, his time in charge has been nothing short of putrid but let’s hope he can turn it around as it appears we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

Gawn got injured early in the year and missed most of the season, Hogan got cancer and his dad died early in the season and he hasn't been the same player since. Viney, Harmes and Salem have all improved under Goodwin. Lewis got to choose between a one year contract at Hawthorn and a three year contract with us. He can talk up how good we looked in 2016 but the truth is he did it for the longevity of his career. The rest of our early draft picks were babies and most had not proved themselves so I don't understand where on earth this consensus came from that our list was considered oh so strong.

 

[saj_21]

Goodwin has had two winning seasons. Taking a side to a prelim isn’t putrid.
Last year was disappointing.

Sacking any coach with a 2-3 record at round 5 this season is laughable.

 

[Demon bhoy]

Oh my god, do we really need to go into this level of semantics? You claimed that our list prior to the start of the 2017 season was considered almost unanimously as one of the best in the league. Fine. I cannot look at that list and believe that claim. There are so many holes in the list it's not funny. That's why more than half of it has been turned over.



Gawn got injured early in the year and missed most of the season, Hogan got cancer and his dad died early in the season and he hasn't been the same player since. Viney, Harmes and Salem have all improved under Goodwin. Lewis got to choose between a one year contract at Hawthorn and a three year contract with us. He can talk up how good we looked in 2016 but the truth is he did it for the longevity of his career. The rest of our early draft picks were babies and most had not proved themselves so I don't understand where on earth this consensus came from that our list was considered oh so strong.

If we are getting all worked up over semantics I won’t go to deeply into disagreeing with most of your points but was surprised you think Viney Salem and Harmes have all improved under Goodwin, can’t agree with that. Facts are he was gift wrapped a list that was being hugely hyped and has won about 45% of he’s games in charge in 3 and a half years, I believe that to be a putrid effort.

Having said that I dearly hope he turns it around as it appears we are stuck with him for the next 18 months but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[00Stinger]

The only question I have is, whether or not Aussies will accept the 2020 flag winner as legitimate?

I’m actually hoping for a resounding “NO” here. It seems like that all but ensures the Dees will be victorious.

depends on who wins it

 

[space_cowboy]

The only question I have is, whether or not Aussies will accept the 2020 flag winner as legitimate?

I’m actually hoping for a resounding “NO” here. It seems like that all but ensures the Dees will be victorious.

You're starting to sound like a lifelong Dee's supporter already.