Updated George Pell * Dead at 81yo

[Mick F]

There will not be a state funeral for Pell in NSW or VIc.


Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews today said he had not received a request for a state funeral, and rejected the prospect of hosting one.
"There won't be a state memorial service," he said.
"I couldn't think of anything that would be more distressing for victim-survivors than that."

NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet also confirmed there would be no state funeral service in the state.

NSW, Victoria premiers rule out state funeral for Pell

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews says holding a state funeral for Cardinal George Pell would be "distressing" for the survivors of child sex abuse.

www.abc.net.au

Haven't seen any evidence that a single person has actually suggested Pell get a state funeral; the entire story is a media beat-up.

 

[jason_recliner]

Into the selectively loving arms of Fr Peter Searson.
Searson: "George, I prefer a younger demographic in my arms".

State funeral incoming.
Eulogy by Anthony Abbott.

He ain't getting no State Funeral. Giving a pedo priest a State Funeral would be political suicide.

 

[Mick F]

And many victims of clerical abuse perpetrators he protected are alive and far from free.

Heard an interesting perspective just before on ABC Melbourne radio, didn't catch the name of the commenter, but essentially he said Pell devised the "Melbourne response" (something some give him credit for as the "first Catholic Church redress scheme in the world") to deliberately cut across a separate (far more expansive) initiative by several Australian bishops. Pell's intent was to limit the liability of the church to the victims - there was not a shred of empathy involved, it was purely $$$ to him.

It got him the desired promotion.

 

[Kurve]

Do we really even have to take him back? I think it's better if he just stays where he is, at the Vatican.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Do we really even have to take him back? I think it's better if he just stays where he is, at the Vatican.

Or accidentally falls/gets pushed out of the plane over the Indian Ocean?!

 

[PatsFitztrick]

Or accidentally falls/gets pushed out of the plane over the Indian Ocean?!

What's left of him would poison marine life for decades.

 

[Mick F]

Do we really even have to take him back? I think it's better if he just stays where he is, at the Vatican.

He forged a new career and life at the Vatican. He has no children in Australia, nor a house.

He lived in Sydney for thirteen (13) years. If his home is not the Vatican it is Ballarat - 30 years residence.

 

[faible]

He forged a new career and life at the Vatican. He has no children in Australia, nor a house.

He lived in Sydney for thirteen (13) years. If his home is not the Vatican it is Ballarat - 30 years residence.

It's times like this I'd really need to know what Bruce thinks of it all.

 

[geoffjennings79]

He forged a new career and life at the Vatican. He has no children in Australia, nor a house.

He lived in Sydney for thirteen (13) years. If his home is not the Vatican it is Ballarat - 30 years residence.

Yep, Ballarat, where so many victims of the clerical pedophiles he knew personally and covered up for still live. And where many locals made him well aware of the offending of his acquaintances over his many years of residence. I don't know where his friend Mulkearns was buried when he passed away in Ballarat, but if Pell was buried in Ballarat, his grave wouldn't last 24 hours without a few modifications. I suspect the site in Sydney, which currently has public access, might find itself festooned in ribbons or other markers for victims anyway.

 

[utility]

If someone dies in the work place, directors face criminal negligence and jail time

Yet whether George committed acts himself or it happened under his watch, he was deemed not guilty. There is a gap in law that needs to be closed.

Concealing a crime is a crime.

 

[Slartibartfast]

He hurt people in so many ways, even his own if they got in the way . All in the name of Christianity .

A school principal gave up everything to blow the whistle on a paedophile priest. George Pell hung up on him

Graeme Sleeman resigned in disgust after complaining about Father Peter Searson in the 1980s and suspects he was then blacklisted

www.theguardian.com

 

[Slartibartfast]

Pell seemingly had no issue in minimising the complaints he heard , horrid tales of sexual abuse against minors but he found it easy to do nothing.
It would be interesting to read these sections which were held back from publication.

Perhaps before people speak of Cardinal Pell’s greatness and saintliness, they should also read the unredacted sections of the final reports on child abuse from the royal commission case study nos. 28 (Ballarat Diocese) and 35 (Melbourne Archdiocese) which were withheld from publication to allow Cardinal Pell a fair trial.


Suppression of the truth comes from the church’s canon law 489 which orders every bishop of a diocese and archbishop of an archdiocese, to maintain and keep under lock and key a secret archive of clergy criminal cases. This means that everyone from the pope down to the bishop in your local diocese maintains such files. Canon laws must be obeyed by clergy.

When it comes to child sexual abuse, Cardinal Pell’s own words betrayed him. During the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse’s hearing in Rome, when asked if he knew Gerald Ridsdale’s offending against children was commonly known in the parish, Pell responded that he didn’t know. He then added: “It’s a sad story and it wasn’t of much interest to me.”

Another response from Pell in Rome regarded a complaint he received from a college student about allegations of sexual assault by Edward Dowlan against younger boys at the school. When Pell was asked by the commission if he passed on the allegations to school staff, Pell said he hadn’t. Pell agreed that he should have done more “… with the experience of 40 years later”. The commission asked: “Wasn’t it a serious matter then?”. Pell replied: “Yes, but people had a different attitude then. There were no specifics about the activity, how serious it was, and the boy wasn’t asking me to do anything about it, but just lamenting and mentioning it.”

In short, Pell protected his own interests and his church’s finances. He let children suffer. He destroyed lives.

Sexual abuse victims know the truth. George Pell allowed lives to be destroyed to protect himself and the Catholic church | Chrissie Foster

Suppression of the truth comes from the Catholic church’s canon law. There is no exposing of hierarchy

www.theguardian.com

 

[geoffjennings79]

When it comes to child sexual abuse, Cardinal Pell’s own words betrayed him. During the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse’s hearing in Rome, when asked if he knew Gerald Ridsdale’s offending against children was commonly known in the parish, Pell responded that he didn’t know. He then added: “It’s a sad story and it wasn’t of much interest to me."

Still to my mind the most damning admission, that goes directly to his character.

No interest in CHILDREN being abused, yet interested enough to accompany Ridsdale - whose activities he'd been made aware of for YEARS - into court!

He's a loathsome POS. (I'd be far more descriptive, but I know my post would get deleted - again.)

 

[CD Xbow]

Pell seemingly had no issue in minimising the complaints he heard , horrid tales of sexual abuse against minors but he found it easy to do nothing.
It would be interesting to read these sections which were held back from publication.

Perhaps before people speak of Cardinal Pell’s greatness and saintliness, they should also read the unredacted sections of the final reports on child abuse from the royal commission case study nos. 28 (Ballarat Diocese) and 35 (Melbourne Archdiocese) which were withheld from publication to allow Cardinal Pell a fair trial.


Suppression of the truth comes from the church’s canon law 489 which orders every bishop of a diocese and archbishop of an archdiocese, to maintain and keep under lock and key a secret archive of clergy criminal cases. This means that everyone from the pope down to the bishop in your local diocese maintains such files. Canon laws must be obeyed by clergy.

When it comes to child sexual abuse, Cardinal Pell’s own words betrayed him. During the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse’s hearing in Rome, when asked if he knew Gerald Ridsdale’s offending against children was commonly known in the parish, Pell responded that he didn’t know. He then added: “It’s a sad story and it wasn’t of much interest to me.”

Another response from Pell in Rome regarded a complaint he received from a college student about allegations of sexual assault by Edward Dowlan against younger boys at the school. When Pell was asked by the commission if he passed on the allegations to school staff, Pell said he hadn’t. Pell agreed that he should have done more “… with the experience of 40 years later”. The commission asked: “Wasn’t it a serious matter then?”. Pell replied: “Yes, but people had a different attitude then. There were no specifics about the activity, how serious it was, and the boy wasn’t asking me to do anything about it, but just lamenting and mentioning it.”

In short, Pell protected his own interests and his church’s finances. He let children suffer. He destroyed lives.

Sexual abuse victims know the truth. George Pell allowed lives to be destroyed to protect himself and the Catholic church | Chrissie Foster

Suppression of the truth comes from the Catholic church’s canon law. There is no exposing of hierarchy

www.theguardian.com

It makes terrible reading. Bishop Mulkerns will be roasting nicely if the Christian idea of hell is true, he is the most responsible. What a work place the Catholic church is, you can beat and sexually assault children, get found out by management and get transferred.....to another school. Rinse and repeat. This happened hundreds of times. Pell certainly knew and covered up for the peadophile priests. For that alone he can join Mulkerns on the spit. I've only got a third of the way through but already there are a number of credible examples of Pell knowing and doing nothing to stop it. Not sure I can read much more. A few examples-

Mr Green stated:
Father Pell came in to the change room and said something like ‘G’day boys’ and went
and stood behind us and started getting changed. Then I just said something like,
‘We’ve got to do something about what’s going on at St Pat’s’. Father Pell said, ‘Yes,
what do you mean?’ I said, ‘Brother Dowlan is touching little boys’. Father Pell said,
‘Don’t be ridiculous’ and walked out

BWE told us on the day of the funeral he overheard an exchange between Father Madden and
Father Pell. Father Madden asked Father Pell, ‘How’s everything down your way?’ Father Pell
responded, ‘Huh, huh, I think Gerry’s been rooting boys again’.


Mr David Ridsdale is the nephew of Gerald Ridsdale. He was sexually abused as a child by his
uncle over a number of years. Ridsdale was later convicted of sexually assaulting his nephew.
Mr Ridsdale said he called Bishop Pell on either 2 or 3 February 1993. He told him he had
been sexually abused by Ridsdale. Mr Ridsdale said he was having difficulties and needed
assistance, but he was concerned about his grandmother and was ‘seeking a private process’.
Mr Ridsdale’s evidence about how the conversation concluded was as follows:
Me: Excuse me, George, what the **** are you talking about?
George: I want to know what it will take to keep you quiet.
Me: **** you, George, and everything you stand for.
When questioned by counsel for Cardinal Pell, Mr Ridsdale was clear that precisely these
three lines were spoken; he said they were ‘embedded’ in his head

BWF stated:
I knocked on the door and someone answered the door but I cannot remember who
it was. I asked to see [F]ather George Pell and that person went to get him ... Because
I was so nervous I just blurted out to Pell that Dowling [sic] had beat and molested
BWG and demanded to know what Pell was going to do about it. Pell became angry
and yelled at me, ‘Young man, how dare you knock on this door and make demands.’
We argued for a bit and he finally told me to go away and shut the door on me.

Those actions alone condemn Pell. He's very crafty and circumspect with his answers, amnesia is common as is dissing the victims. He also tries to normalize aberrant behavoir such as priest kissing boys on the lips or bathing naked with boys as something people did back then. I know this is absolute rubbish, I was alive then and it would have been regarded as creepy and something a kiddy fiddler would do. Nor is he credible in his claims of not knowing about Gerald Ridsdale activities.

It doesn't answer the question Was Pell a peadophile himself? There have been a number of claims over the ears, the best known was the high court conviction that was overturned on a technicality. I know a family from the region who claim Pell did molest their child and I am inclined to believe them, but ultimately proof will always be lacking. However, we can be confident that he was a pedo-enabler who covered up for peadophile priests. That alone is enough to see him burn.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Pour yourself a double before tackling this lot , it is an ugly read. Worth opening up each link for the extensive story and judgement of investigations by the church. The QC hired by the church is explicit in his approach but the terms of reference were a big leap to achieve.

George Pell) had sexually abused a twelve-year-old altar boy (named Phil) in 1961-1962 at a holiday camp for boys on Phillip Island, south-east of Melbourne. According to a church document, Phil has alleged that, on several occasions, the trainee priest George Pell (then aged about 20) thrust his hand down the inside of Phil's pants and got "a good handful" of the boy's penis and testicles

Phil tried to alert the church authorities. Phil emphasised that he was not seeking compensation. And he was not reporting this matter to the police (therefore there is no police investigation into Phil's complaint). Rather, Phil was concerned about the safety of children in the church's care

In 2002, the hierarchy paid a senior barrister, Mr Alec Southwell QC, to examine (and report on) Phil's complaint. Archbishop George Pell (who was indeed at the altar boys' camp) denied committing any abuse. Mr Southwell's report concluded that the former altar boy "appeared to speak honestly from an actual recollection". Mr Southwell said he was not persuaded that the former altar boy was a liar as alleged by Pell. [The incident in 1960-1961 is not included in the criminal charges that Pell faced in court in 2018 because the former altar boy Phil has not reported this matter to the police — and Phil says he does not want to re-open his 1960-1961 matter now because he is still feeling hurt by the manner in which he says Pell's defence team brutalised him when he tried to report it to the church authorities in 2002.

Mr Southwell returned a balanced finding. Evidently, it was one man's word against another man's word. The Southwell report contains no mention of George Pell being exonerated.


In the end, and notwithstanding that impression of the complainant, bearing in mind the forensic difficulties of the defence occasioned by the very long delay, some valid criticism of the complainant's credibility, the lack of corroborative evidence and the sworn denial of the respondent, I find I am not "satisfied that the complaint has been established", to quote the words of the principal term of reference
full link below to this story.

A church report in 2002 contains a complaint about George Pell abusing an altar boy in 1961-62 | Broken Rites Australia

brokenrites.org.au

Here is the link to the home page with countless stories regarding the Catholic Church and sexual abuse. Please dont read if you are easily upset by these matters. It is graphic and seemingly endless.

Broken Rites Australia | - researching the Catholic cover-up

brokenrites.org.au

Here is a list of contact numbers if you need support , dont be shy in using them. Emotional pain is best dealt with via discussion , not silence. If you are unsure where to start feel free to message me. I dont claim to be the one who will make the difference in your life but will happily lead you to how to start that conversation and to those who can assist .

Mental health helplines

There are many organisations that can help you with mental health problems. Learn about organisations that provide support over the phone and online.

www.healthdirect.gov.au

 

[jason_recliner]

Only filthy pedo scum protects filthy pedo scum.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Not many people I really despise but Pell had to be right up there as one of the most conniving , cold hearted lying toe rag that has ever walked the earth.
He was only ever interested in protecting the church regardless of the cost to the victims of abuse. Regardless of his guilt / innocence individually he knew what was going on. His supporters can say he was misunderstood , prosecuted unfairly and make him out as a martyr but they can't ever hide the pure evil that happened under his watch.
My only sympathies are to the victims of the church under Pell's watch. Those who took their lives and others who had their childhood taken from them and changed their life forever.
Pell can get stuffed , if there is hell hopefully the devil is placing red hot pokers in his nether regions for eternity.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He hurt people in so many ways, even his own if they got in the way . All in the name of Christianity .

A school principal gave up everything to blow the whistle on a paedophile priest. George Pell hung up on him

Graeme Sleeman resigned in disgust after complaining about Father Peter Searson in the 1980s and suspects he was then blacklisted

www.theguardian.com

All in the name of protecting the Catholic Church institution... & **** all the victims.

Just think about what Christianity is meant to stand for...

Rest in hell!

 

[geoffjennings79]

My only sympathies are to the victims of the church under Pell's watch. Those who took their lives and others who had their childhood taken from them and changed their life forever.

Yes, too many have suffered due to Pell's direct actions in ignoring what was made clear to him over and over again.

The families of the victims are scarred for life too - there are literally hundreds of victims impacted directly by one man's inhuman obsession with protecting an institution that stands for absolutely nothing (and I was raised a Catholic).

 

[javaguice]

So did he die of sepsis or something?

Did one of the surgeons deliberately contaminate the wound?

Scandalous

 

[GreyCrow]

There was this bright young lad from the Diocese of Ballarat who wanted to become a doctor but his family were poor

Until the Church stepped in for him. By then the young lad had lost his way and struggled to control his rage.

But he got his life back on track and attended Melbourne Uni and went on to become a world famous orthopedic surgeon.

He found work in Rome

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

So did he die of sepsis or something?

Did one of the surgeons deliberately contaminate the wound?

Scandalous

Pope wasn't keen for him to talk to his finance paper....

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Pell and the church got it wrong in how to handle molestation allegations. Zero doubt there. With hindsight its easy. He wanted to protect the church and to believe in redemption for the priest and to do what is right for the child. All 3 couldn't he achieved simultaneously. He wouldn't be the first to get it wrong on an important issue eg history of Weinstein and me too. Then you have the first Gay Mardi Gras in 78 which was actually a protest. Protestors were bashed and jailed by police. Wait what?

My point is that attitudes change on the desired response to a breach of societal values. Really easy to apply current thinking to an historical problem and crucify Pell. I don't think it's that simple.

 

[strikeymate]

It's a GLORIOUS day!!!

Why... can you share more?

 

[strikeymate]

He ain't getting no State Funeral. Giving a pedo priest a State Funeral would be political suicide.

Never liked the man, but he was found innocent. I believe in justice, so labeling him a pedophile is a bit rich I think.