Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[CatToTheFuture]

We got a bargain with Danger tbh, and keep in mind forwards normally peak later than mids and have a longer shelf life, Hawkins has just got his first Coleman at 32. We also handed over a reasonable set of steak knives to Adelaide at the time. We actually did rate Gore, first year player, got 3rd in our VFL b&f despite playing only 10 games, would have most likely played seniors but had an injury that delayed a debut.

I remember the narrative earlier this year being that key forwards generally peak at 30 and go backwards quick in regards to Hawkins being an outlier

 

[CatToTheFuture]

This board is as delusional as the Crows board if you think the Giants are taking that pick 9 for Cameron. Geelong need him (Hawkins not long left) and they will cough up picks I’m sure.

Most probably will, but not because we have to.

 

[JohnZ]

UFA after 8 year and lifetime at that, compensation comes from club receiving the player

Not exactly a free agent if the club getting has to pay compo. Just scrap compo, if you can't keep a player at your club after 8 years then you deserve to lose them

 

[Gunf]

Not exactly a free agent if the club getting has to pay compo. Just scrap compo, if you can't keep a player at your club after 8 years then you deserve to lose them

Free agency is meant for the player (Free Agent) not free club that is what a UFA is they can go where ever they like and no one can stop them.
Compensation is something i would like to gt rid of but Clubs will never agree to that

The only reason RFA and compo exists is because of clubs and the AFL want some control

 

[crocsta]

I checked a few key forwards to see what age the peaked for goals.

Franklin, Kennedy, And Jack all peaked by 28 and the started to decline.

We have likely seen the best of Cameron. We should get 2-3 good years then most likely an average player after that period.

One decent pick should be enough in a trade



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Big little cat]

Focus for the 2021 midfield is to be even and solid enough to send Dangerfield forward. Fogs, Constable or Narkle can make it this spot theirs. I would like to see Close spend more time on ball. Clean hands. Evans will be hopefully be strong competition for Miers next year in the forward line.

 

[walker80]

With everyone getting their panties in a twist about Geelong constantly "stealing" players from other clubs, I was interested to see which clubs were actually the worst offenders. I wouldn't take this as absolute fact, as I may have missed one or more players, but as I suspected Cats are only mid level offenders. The below numbers are based on 2020 lists with the bracket numbers probable new inclusions.

1. Rich - 6
2. Ade - 7
3. Syd - 7
4. WC - 8
5. GWS - 8
6. WB - 9 (+1)
7. Fre - 9 (+1)
8. Melb - 9 (+1)
9. Gee - 9 (+2)
10. Bris - 10 (+1)
11. Ess - 10 (+1)
12. Nor - 11
13. Port - 11 (+1)
14. Coll - 12
15. Gold - 12
16. Haw - 13 (+1)
17. StK - 14 (+1)
18. Car - 15 (+2)

I guess not all recruits are created equal (I'll take a Danger & Cameron over Hartigan and Frost any day), but I don't think many can count themselves innocent of poaching from other clubs. Was surprised how few Richmond have stolen, apart from their GC breading ground that is. What I would say about us is that we target who we want and we target local and we make it happen, but we do it without paying overs.

 

[Lana]

That's honestly the problem though, as they probably will pick up a by bunch of those guys - whilst their sal cap gets focused on a very small amount of valued players. It just doesn't create a good feel at a club, when 6 players are being paid more than half the cap. Taranto has a B + F and he's being paid half what Cogs, Kelly, Whitfield, Greene are being paid. You can just see the rot setting in, just like it did at GC.

As an example:

Whitfield - 1 MIL
Cogs - 1 MIL
Kelly - 1 MIL
Davis - 900K
Cameron - 850K (now leaving)
Greene - 800K
Ward - 800K

What happens when all of Green, Ash, all their new kids they'll get from picks, come on? Only 2 of those players left are close to retiring, and it would not surprise me if they threw big money at Taranto, Hopper, Himmelberg, Haynes and Perryman to get them to stay. They've also recruited Preuss for 500K a year, which leaves even less for the new players coming through.

Without the promise of short-term success, players will keep leaving if they think they'll get paid/get more game time at another mid-range club. And why wouldn't they? They see a team that only values its 'star core', and doesn't value them anywhere near as much.

This is what happens when you pay players to get them to stay, rather than fixing the core problems of your club/culture - which usually run deeper than just pay disgruntlement, and usually extend to the coach, staff, line coaches, performance manager, CEO, Director etc.

Their path is exactly the same as GC before it fell, it's just taking longer because they've been cycling through high draft picks longer.

They need a new coach, a new CEO (Dave Matthews is cancer) and a new ethos to build on. What they're doing now, will just get a lot worse before it starts to get better - see GC recently

An issue GWS was facing was that the AFL took away COLA and an additional increase in their cap after pressure from McGuire and Co I think this was back is 2016. They signed up a bunch of players to long term contract on high dollars which then other players demanded the same conditions that GWS couldn't meet. Most of that has filtered out now.

By now I suspect that the real pressure comes their mid ranged players, for example them trying to keep Caldwell, by offering him a four year contract, he chose to leave because he was offered a 5 year deal(He has played less then 15 games, We've locked in Clark in a two year deal). Given that their recent draftees are perceived a gettable, they have to fight to retain each and every one of them who are offered above market rates to leave. Before this was okay as they more talent then they could play so loosing a few to retain the ones they wanted and getting more high picks in the draft was good, but this is no longer the case, they've got a bunch of recycled players filling up the number and they're losing talent before they can get established in the 22.

 

[Drunkcat]

Should never have put GWS and GCoast in the league in the first place. players will just leave these clubs every year and in 2 years if not in a GF GC will start lossing players again

 

[tielgaz]

I remember the narrative earlier this year being that key forwards generally peak at 30 and go backwards quick in regards to Hawkins being an outlier

There are a lot more examples of forwards doing well in their 30’s players, off the top of my head Gary Ablett SRN & Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

58

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

come to mind.

 

[JohnZ]

Should never have put GWS and GCoast in the league in the first place. players will just leave these clubs every year and in 2 years if not in a GF GC will start lossing players again

Should've kept all the state leagues and state of origin.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Should never have put GWS and GCoast in the league in the first place. players will just leave these clubs every year and in 2 years if not in a GF GC will start lossing players again

If you want a National Comp and grow the game, those two choices were NO BRAINERS really.
Problem lays with allowing draft picks to be on 2 year contracts. 3 year should be the minimum with the 4th being the norm for a 1st rounder IMO.
Too much power given to a 19-20 yo kid and his manager to determine where they go and when.
Make them tied to a club for 4 years and the mindset of a draftee changes quite easily.
Another way to alter this "go home factor" is allow the 4 northern clubs to have access to 4 best state players (2 each).
Which after a 3-4 year period you have in essence 25% of your list being locals.
Cheers DC

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Should've kept all the state leagues and state of origin.

LOL... No way.
We had half the clubs insolvent and attendances a third of what it is now.
Clubs run as a boys club by fools who quite frankly nearly killed the league.
The BIG TV contracts would've been a third of what it is as people in the northern states would have zero interest in watching it.
I could go on and on... But really the game was a basket case that the only way to go forward was having it go National.
Where the interest and viewing audience could be quadrupled that would allow monies to come into the league and clubs alike.
Pretty much like every other country in the world with its elite sports.
Well thats my take JZ.
Cheers bud.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

There are a lot more examples of forwards doing well in their 30’s players, off the top of my head Gary Ablett SRN & Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

58

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

come to mind.

Not in the modern era though.

 

[JohnZ]

LOL... No way.

Well if you want a national comp without losing all the VFL clubs then 18 is the bare minimum, honestly they should go to 2 divisions of 24 teams. Keep the 22 week season. If they want 18 teams, need to go to 34 games asap.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

There are a lot more examples of forwards doing well in their 30’s players, off the top of my head Gary Ablett SRN & Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

58

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

come to mind.

Mmmm... So thats 2 of.... how many ??
And any in the modern era?? Like the last 5-10 years??

 

[Turbocat]

Not in the modern era though.

Any players whos game revolves around contact generally doe not last as long.. look at the 400 game players Tick and Bartlett built like Rakes... Brereton was done by 28 or so. Look at Rooke at Geelong

So its a bit individual. Is Cameron crash and bang? At time yes.but generally he seems to work up and down the ground .. so basically it a who knows. Is he in good nick .. is he like a old car with low K's on the clock... or more like a Taxi. Only those close to him would really know.

Its doubtful enough for me to have less enthusiasm for trading for him ... and knowing that it would turn into a barney over the trade.

I keep hear guys like Edmond say ..the comp pick is not enough they have to push for a trade probably players ...... I dont hear any media bringing up with 9 years service / 10 at the club .... why cant a player choose his club. Obviously I have bias being a geelong supporter but two years service compared to 9 makes the Kelly situation different ... but in general ..both are uncontracted . Really both should be able to choose who they play for.

If we want a radical solution, just open it all up. What are the rules for NRL...not really aware of the details but I know they have no draft. ..and a team like Storm who has basically players from a non vic home..seem to work well.

If there were almost no prevention to move and the only break was Sal Cap... right now GWS would be in the market with a lot of dollars. Who knows they may have been able to go hard at Parfitt before he signed or a heap of other OOC players. Right now if FA is bath the have our foot getting wet to the ankle.

 

[Warhorse]

Why bother with Cameron if you can get brown with a 2nd round pick, Absolute madness from North.

 

[Don Catto]

Why bother with Cameron if you can get brown with a 2nd round pick, Absolute madness from North.

Cameron is better?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I checked a few key forwards to see what age the peaked for goals.

Franklin, Kennedy, And Jack all peaked by 28 and the started to decline.

We have likely seen the best of Cameron. We should get 2-3 good years then most likely an average player after that period.

One decent pick should be enough in a trade



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not really how these deals work though. Up until their 30s, generally, if you want an elite payer you pay a top price, maybe with a reduction for the uncontracted/RFA factor as there was with Dangerfield. It's also about the value to Geelong. If they still feel they can win a flag with this group, a key forward of his quality is going to be pretty important given Hawkins' age. He would fill the transition period between Hawkins departing/diminishing in output and someone younger potentially coming along.

 

[Turbocat]

Well if you want a national comp without losing all the VFL clubs then 18 is the bare minimum, honestly they should go to 2 divisions of 24 teams. Keep the 22 week season. If they want 18 teams, need to go to 34 games asap.

Starting from scratch ..One has to work out what is sustainable ..and work back.

Imo..State comps would flounder without the TV dollars that a national comp offers. It would be high destructive to go back to that now... think on the flux when we are talking less money for cap , lees players on list. Less money may mean less quality athletes but it would almost certainly mean less money for facilites. One only has to think back to the type of ground that all went to back in that era.I doubt in this mobile phone social media age that we would have as many willing to rough it the outer like back then.

If we look at modern spoting setups like bbl ... if we started from scratch... geelong might not even be in the comp. We are not in the basketball now.... and if we were in a comp with 4 or 6 Vic teams... we most likely would be a struggling club ..not so much a strong one... I dont know what the equivalent of geelong would be in. the english soccer... Sunderland?

 

[Turbocat]

If you want a National Comp and grow the game, those two choices were NO BRAINERS really.
Problem lays with allowing draft picks to be on 2 year contracts. 3 year should be the minimum with the 4th being the norm for a 1st rounder IMO.
Too much power given to a 19-20 yo kid and his manager to determine where they go and when.
Make them tied to a club for 4 years and the mindset of a draftee changes quite easily.
Another way to alter this "go home factor" is allow the 4 northern clubs to have access to 4 best state players (2 each).
Which after a 3-4 year period you have in essence 25% of your list being locals.
Cheers DC

The the issue with the draft is its setting up a situation where you are fighting against the tide , tying to hold back the water with sandbags. How many players would have chosen the club they are drafted to. How many choose to stay if they have good offers to move.Journey man type players will basically be happy to play where ever.. but the best kids will always gather offers. This year we will probably see A WA kid drafted by Adelaide... and when WC see their FF on last legs one can see they will be going hard at him from day 1.

If every club could recruit one kid .. they all courted the kids ..and in the end could offer whatever to the kid to persuade them.. most of the vic could would choose vic clubs..

The idea that clubs get picks or money or whatever for an uncontracted player is an anachronism... they are not slaves.

In the end the AFL love all this whoha ...its clickbait to the max ... trade period is almost more popular than the game so I cant see radical changes happening.

 

[iameviljez]

I remember the narrative earlier this year being that key forwards generally peak at 30 and go backwards quick in regards to Hawkins being an outlier

Yeah that is my belief still. Hawkins is a freak but he and Riewoldt are the outliers. Most CHFs go the way of Brereton and Carey.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Any players whos game revolves around contact generally doe not last as long.. look at the 400 game players Tick and Bartlett built like Rakes... Brereton was done by 28 or so. Look at Rooke at Geelong

So its a bit individual. Is Cameron crash and bang? At time yes.but generally he seems to work up and down the ground .. so basically it a who knows. Is he in good nick .. is he like a old car with low K's on the clock... or more like a Taxi. Only those close to him would really know.

Its doubtful enough for me to have less enthusiasm for trading for him ... and knowing that it would turn into a barney over the trade.

I keep hear guys like Edmond say ..the comp pick is not enough they have to push for a trade probably players ...... I dont hear any media bringing up with 9 years service / 10 at the club .... why cant a player choose his club. Obviously I have bias being a geelong supporter but two years service compared to 9 makes the Kelly situation different ... but in general ..both are uncontracted . Really both should be able to choose who they play for.

If we want a radical solution, just open it all up. What are the rules for NRL...not really aware of the details but I know they have no draft. ..and a team like Storm who has basically players from a non vic home..seem to work well.

If there were almost no prevention to move and the only break was Sal Cap... right now GWS would be in the market with a lot of dollars. Who knows they may have been able to go hard at Parfitt before he signed or a heap of other OOC players. Right now if FA is bath the have our foot getting wet to the ankle.

I agree with all that except no draft. Its imperfect but for the sake of equalisation i think we need it.

 

[Turbocat]

Never, ever listen to Derm. That man hates Geelong more than any of us can fathom. Absolute obnoxious knob to boot as well

he is that type of personality ..yet I do rate his knowledge especially at KPF. I remember in 08 ..he picked Geelong to win and proceeded to put as much expectation on them as possible ... stuff like "If geelong don't beat Haw this time ..they never will" . He has a robust rego built on success and is one of the few who dared to voice at Goode for example .. few did that. When he turns down the alpha he can express footy observation of worth ..imo...but for sure wit Ess and Geelong you have to filter out the flavour