Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[Vdubs]

Yeah you would take a bad break over an ACL any day of your life

Ask Barry Stoneham, Nathan Brown or Jason Snell if they'd agree with that.
Being in that area of work, neither are great options, both are potentially career arresting, but generally , a bad break is more devastating.

 

[Turbocat]

Ask Barry Stoneham, Nathan Brown or Jason Snell if they'd agree with that.
Being in that area of work, neither are great options, both are potentially career arresting, but generally , a bad break is more devastating.

Jamie Lawson ? ... it would seem a bad one is really bad ... and certainly the pressure that pro sport brings ..to get back and play is not ideal ..

 

[Vdubs]

Jamie Lawson ? ... it would seem a bad one is really bad ... and certainly the pressure that pro sport brings ..to get back and play is not ideal ..

They tend to affect both joints above and below adversely, so a compound smashed tib and fib, like Snell had, can really stiffen the ankle, but also the knee.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Ask Barry Stoneham, Nathan Brown or Jason Snell if they'd agree with that.
Being in that area of work, neither are great options, both are potentially career arresting, but generally , a bad break is more devastating.

Probably should clarify my comments I would prefer a moderate badly broken leg to an ACL.

We all know you have career enders either way you don't want one of those. I'm guessing more careers are ended across the board with ACLs compared to broken legs. I don't have the stats to back that up lol.

Just my gut feeling dealing with both broken leg and ankle when I recovered I felt the same. When I did the Postlateral Corner plus ACL it was never the same and such a draining recovery

 

[Ray Donovan]

Well lets hope that who ever we are interested in 2020 ..is ship shape and no clouds overhead....

Yeah true and it's just one of those things some people have better recovery than others. No two injuries are the same because all bodies are different even with the same injury.

Some guys like Selwood just never have a problem again. Some just continually do them like Lever or a dramatic case is Menzel.

It's a lot of luck really contact sport one can never really be sure. Especially with kids put them on the track load them up see what happens some guys like Cockatoo just can't handle it sometimes

 

[Vdubs]

Probably should clarify my comments I would prefer a moderate badly broken leg to an ACL.

We all know you have career enders either way you don't want one of those. I'm guessing more careers are ended across the board with ACLs compared to broken legs. I don't have the stats to back that up lol.

Just my gut feeling dealing with both broken leg and ankle when I recovered I felt the same. When I did the Postlateral Corner plus ACL it was never the same and such a draining recovery

Can not argue with personal experience, and not many would have had to deal with that.
I'll continue to hope I can be spared of both.
Some people with ACL's end up deferring surgery indefinitely as they are not returning to sports etc. The main reasons to have a recon are to treat instability symptoms- if present, or to allow a return to cutting type sports like footy, netball.
As you say, a 12m rehab is so mentally draining.
Watching the Dan Menzel production was a pain for us. Can not imagine what he went through, but you can.

 

[Ratcat]

Ask Barry Stoneham, Nathan Brown or Jason Snell if they'd agree with that.
Being in that area of work, neither are great options, both are potentially career arresting, but generally , a bad break is more devastating.

Not when you run a 6:17 2km and then blow the combine apart with a 21.8 yoyo test equal first.
I'd say that leg's fine. Just wait and watch the JTL's should be very interesting to watch CS perform.

 

[Vdubs]

Not when you run a 6:17 2km and then blow the combine apart with a 21.8 yoyo test equal first.
I'd say that leg's fine. Just wait and watch the JTL's should be very interesting to watch CS perform.

Had no knowledge of that, but all I was referring to was a non-specific BAD break

 

[Ratcat]

Had no knowledge of that, but all I was referring to was a non-specific BAD break

Shaw there's been some shockers through the years, but Cooper's running and jumping at the combine was top shelf.
The leg isn't an issue and he's doing all required pre season training as far as l've heard.

 

[Turbocat]

Had no knowledge of that, but all I was referring to was a non-specific BAD break

Always interested in area of expertise ... Id say the recovery from the broken leg for CS must be reasonable to perform the way he did at the combine...

however in this thread.. all Im really concerned with is there anyone that we may be looking at recruiting or perhaps delisting because of said injuries...

I guess we will be monitoring the like of Ol Henry and the other Falcons .. as if they cop an injury it will affect their draft position just like it did for CS.

 

[CatRiot]

Do people expect CS to play seniors in 2020?
I reckon Taheny might get a game, if we have injuries in the forward half that is.

 

[Ratcat]

Do people expect CS to play seniors in 2020?
I reckon Taheny might get a game, if we have injuries in the forward half that is.

If they both play seniors this year on sheer talent alone then we'd have to say Wells absolutely aced the draft.
Obviously the taller types will take longer to fill out than smaller thicker set young blokes, both Stephens and Taheny are borderline to me on their physical development

Taheny at P50 making his debut would be sensational whereas Stephens is for sure more likely imo, although we are pretty thin when it comes to medium forwards.

 

[Down at K Park]

Yeah true and it's just one of those things some people have better recovery than others. No two injuries are the same because all bodies are different even with the same injury.

Some guys like Selwood just never have a problem again. Some just continually do them like Lever or a dramatic case is Menzel.

It's a lot of luck really contact sport one can never really be sure. Especially with kids put them on the track load them up see what happens some guys like Cockatoo just can't handle it sometimes

Selwood never did an acl. His knee injury was something different.

And in terms of broken bones coopers was the least serious form. Hence his quick recovery and return to fitness.

He’ll be fine.

 

[catswhiskers]

Not when you run a 6:17 2km and then blow the combine apart with a 21.8 yoyo test equal first.
I'd say that leg's fine. Just wait and watch the JTL's should be very interesting to watch CS perform.

Just a general question for all contributors ---- is it possible to get Copper Stephens full set of test results?

I would like to see his sprint and agility figures.

 

[Ratcat]

Just a general question for all contributors ---- is it possible to get Copper Stephens full set of test results?

I would like to see his sprint and agility figures.

Can't find full details either.

 

[Vdubs]

Just a general question for all contributors ---- is it possible to get Copper Stephens full set of test results?

I would like to see his sprint and agility figures.

From the pov of his leg being fine, great; as far as his ability, I'm much more keen to see his preseason and early season actual football skills.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Can not argue with personal experience, and not many would have had to deal with that.
I'll continue to hope I can be spared of both.
Some people with ACL's end up deferring surgery indefinitely as they are not returning to sports etc. The main reasons to have a recon are to treat instability symptoms- if present, or to allow a return to cutting type sports like footy, netball.
As you say, a 12m rehab is so mentally draining.
Watching the Dan Menzel production was a pain for us. Can not imagine what he went through, but you can.

Different grades of of ACLs so they are different most grade ones no surgery just rehab over a few months.

Grade 1 Stretching of ligament no tear.

Grade 2 stretched and partially torn

Grade 3 complete rupture / tear surgery

spine avulsion where the ACL is fine the bone ligament is torn away from tibia

So if you can deal with some pain and that's the reason grown men are falling with tears when they partially tear an ACL because nerves and excruciating pain I have been told. Even heard meniscus are extremely painful to deal with.

I was one of the few that complete rupture so I didnt get the pain lol. That's one thing to look for in a guy who is lying on the ground clutching his knee it's probably really serious if he doesn't have that sharp pain and can't walk you never forget the sound of the pop and if you hear 2 go straight to emergency.

I think this a good place to mention this is any "average Joe" like myself does a grade 3 ACL complete rupture. Medically speaking if you do not have private health insurance Medicare and hospitals don't really want to deal with Knee injuries because there is so many. They grade you and pop you on a 6 / 12 month wait list if you want surgery they grade with severity. I had surgery within two weeks. The will try and rehab you my GP and doctor explained to me.

But if you work a physically demanding job like a tradesman as I do. What they don't tell you is it will be near impossible to do anything but behind the clipboard. You can't bear any weight without fear of knee buckling on ladders pain. Just the quality of life is what you don't realise run with the dog or kids. For mine I forgot about sport and all I wanted was strength in my knee for quality of life again 18 month process for me because it was on the serious side. In saying that I have seen guys no surgery done both ACLs walking around older guys from when surgery wasn't as good. I see them strapping both knees up and not being able to walk when they get home. After surgery and recovery I'm alright like that no braces and no sore knee lucky.

But being through the process myself if you do a grade 3 and the doctor's suggestion is rehab you and you want any quality of life don't wait spend the money and get it done. The ACL never heals itself you have ruptured one of the 4 mains in your leg will deal with pain, instability, osteoarthritis for the rest of life. Even when you defer surgery your just putting extreme strain on the other ligaments which they won't scan for unless you get an expert consultant. So that 3 months for a standard acl you will spend rehabbing trying to walk bear weight again anyway loss of income.

Most people that avoid surgery with this type of grade 3 tear simply can't afford to do it or have to wait to get it done depending on severity waitlist.

my two cents

 

[Ray Donovan]

Selwood never did an acl. His knee injury was something different.

And in terms of broken bones coopers was the least serious form. Hence his quick recovery and return to fitness.

He’ll be fine.

Never mentioned anything about Cooper was replying to dubs in relation to ACL or Broken Leg, did not say Joel did an ACL either but I wrote the post poorly so it reflected that my bad.

Joel's had two knee surgeries before he was drafted and missed almost a full season as well. The issue with Joel is degenerative it was always a long game scenario that's why he was a draft slider. Which is Geelongs gain potentially top 3 Pick

So the ironic part the this discussion is Joel having knee tendinitis is no surprise they literally knew since he was drafted it could be an issue. Did it anyway worked out great.

But I fear Joel carried it badly all last season and it probably won't improve so cheer hard everytime he is on the park lads ! Could be his last

 

[Vdubs]

Different grades of of ACLs so they are different most grade ones no surgery just rehab over a few months.

Grade 1 Stretching of ligament no tear.

Grade 2 stretched and partially torn

Grade 3 complete rupture / tear surgery

spine avulsion where the ACL is fine the bone ligament is torn away from tibia

So if you can deal with some pain and that's the reason grown men are falling with tears when they partially tear an ACL because nerves and excruciating pain I have been told. Even heard meniscus are extremely painful to deal with.

I was one of the few that complete rupture so I didnt get the pain lol. That's one thing to look for in a guy who is lying on the ground clutching his knee it's probably really serious if he doesn't have that sharp pain and can't walk you never forget the sound of the pop and if you hear 2 go straight to emergency.

I think this a good place to mention this is any "average Joe" like myself does a grade 3 ACL complete rupture. Medically speaking if you do not have private health insurance Medicare and hospitals don't really want to deal with Knee injuries because there is so many. They grade you and pop you on a 6 / 12 month wait list if you want surgery they grade with severity. I had surgery within two weeks. The will try and rehab you my GP and doctor explained to me.

But if you work a physically demanding job like a tradesman as I do. What they don't tell you is it will be near impossible to do anything but behind the clipboard. You can't bear any weight without fear of knee buckling on ladders pain. Just the quality of life is what you don't realise run with the dog or kids. For mine I forgot about sport and all I wanted was strength in my knee for quality of life again 18 month process for me because it was on the serious side. In saying that I have seen guys no surgery done both ACLs walking around older guys from when surgery wasn't as good. I see them strapping both knees up and not being able to walk when they get home. After surgery and recovery I'm alright like that no braces and no sore knee lucky.

But being through the process myself if you do a grade 3 and the doctor's suggestion is rehab you and you want any quality of life don't wait spend the money and get it done. The ACL never heals itself you have ruptured one of the 4 mains in your leg will deal with pain, instability, osteoarthritis for the rest of life. Even when you defer surgery your just putting extreme strain on the other ligaments which they won't scan for unless you get an expert consultant. So that 3 months for a standard acl you will spend rehabbing trying to walk bear weight again anyway loss of income.

Most people that avoid surgery with this type of grade 3 tear simply can't afford to do it or have to wait to get it done depending on severity waitlist.

my two cents

Good points, for sure.
But unfortunately many complete ruptures are not always severely painful at the time of injury. The classic was Lenny Hayes who felt nqr during a game, got his knee checked post game by the med staff, and total rupture.
Then, there are plenty of acute severely painful injuries where the edict is "ACL tear until proven otherwise"- sounds like yours.

We like to think of many of these as stress injuries.
Sometimes the mechanism of injury is so trivial and innocuous that the player can not believe they have one.
On the other hand, there are quite a few who do completely tear their ACL's, have no other associated injuries, and simply do not want a recon.
Additionally, studies have shown that virtually 100% of those who tear an ACL get OA, with or without a recon. They used to think a recon may be protective, sadly not so.

 

[catswhiskers]

From the pov of his leg being fine, great; as far as his ability, I'm much more keen to see his preseason and early season actual football skills.

I would like to see his sprint and agility data to get a hint of his initial speed and agility . An inside mid needs some burst and agility as well as grunt and endurance to be damaging. eg. can we compare data for CS and GHS? George just didn't have the initial burst or evasiveness needed (IMO) he had most other things covered.

The couple of times I have been at preseason training the kids have only been in some basic small group to half ground drills. Very little if any centre bounce work was undertaken by any group. So no info from that. Just for the heck, those numbers would be food for thought.

Of course preseason and early season actual match vision will tell the big story but that's still a while away and I get impatient.

 

[Down at K Park]

Never mentioned anything about Cooper was replying to dubs in relation to ACL or Broken Leg, did not say Joel did an ACL either but I wrote the post poorly so it reflected that my bad.

Joel's had two knee surgeries before he was drafted and missed almost a full season as well. The issue with Joel is degenerative it was always a long game scenario that's why he was a draft slider. Which is Geelongs gain potentially top 3 Pick

So the ironic part the this discussion is Joel having knee tendinitis is no surprise they literally knew since he was drafted it could be an issue. Did it anyway worked out great.

But I fear Joel carried it badly all last season and it probably won't improve so cheer hard everytime he is on the park lads ! Could be his last

I thought joel’s problem last year was hamstring related. Not knee?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Do people expect CS to play seniors in 2020?
I reckon Taheny might get a game, if we have injuries in the forward half that is.

Depends on the make-up of the midfield. I'd say he'll be in the frame for a debut, possibly early, and dependant on pre-season form.

 

[Max Milburn]

Do people expect CS to play seniors in 2020?
I reckon Taheny might get a game, if we have injuries in the forward half that is.

If Chris Scott has to pull on the boots, our 2020 is over before it starts.

 

[00VicWard001]

On JS, he'll win his own ball produce big numbers and kick goals, something none of our smalls seem capable of doing.
I think it's not how he fits it's more about how do others keep him out?

Bluntly, Jack Steven is a goddamn viking who will cut a swathe through a quite a few teams. We were all getting excited for the Holy Trinity in 2018 and it was a fizzer. Danger and Steven's will deliver the goods. And they have a very strong supporting cast with Selwood, Duncan, Guthrie, Constable, Cockatoo, Narkle and Parfitt more than capable.

 

[Ratcat]

Bluntly, Jack Steven is a goddamn viking who will cut a swathe through a quite a few teams. We were all getting excited for the Holy Trinity in 2018 and it was a fizzer. Danger and Steven's will deliver the goods. And they have a very strong supporting cast with Selwood, Duncan, Guthrie, Constable, Cockatoo, Narkle and Parfitt more than capable.

I fully agree VW, it will be manic watching JS and Dangerfield , I also see Ablett being ignored more by opposition and getting loose linking with Danger and JS.
I reckon if we can get a kid to stand up with those two, maybe Constable, we're looking pretty strong midfield again.