Rumour GFC 2021 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists... Part II

[year of the cat]

I agree which is why we might want to see how the order unfolds on the night and then live trade. If a pick in the mid teens would get you goater or sonsie or rachele or johnson (to name a few i like) then id definitely trade up at the right price whereas if they are all gone having 22/23 or 22 and the 30s picks might be better.

With the caveat that we cant carry all 5 picks into the night if we only had 4 list spots so we would have to do a trade up before the night in that scenario or lose the 5th pick.

The issue with waiting is that someone might trade up before the draft and you lose the flexibility all together.

I think the decision to trade up or not clearly depends on two factors -
1. Is it likely the player/s you are interested in going to be available with your current or is if likely you will need to trade up?

2. if you don’t trade up, are your second option/s far inferior to your preferred options?

Personally, I think we need to be adding as high a quality of player as possible. Looking at quality, not so much quantity. In any case by trading up you are only “losing” probably one pick in the 30’s for the sake of a pick 7 spots higher than your current 2nd pick.

My “uneducated” analysis suggests that there is a raft of players we should be interested in taking that are very likely to go in those picks. I hope I’m wrong. But I’d be making sure that you are effectively guaranteed two very solid picks and then another in the 30’s for a player that might fall. The last pick for a more speculative type.

 

[Lana]

I'm against initiating draft pick only trades on principal. You see teams either paying a premium or gambling for little gain with a huge potential to be burnt. facilitating other teams desires seems to be much more profitable

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Not sure we could/should add both Schlensog and Brander to the main list. Would be happy to add one to the rookie list but they might not be there then.

Schlensog is a top 30-40 pick all day everyday in this upcoming draft. Get him for nothing. YES THANKS!!
As for Brander. Would he be better than a Pick 43(50)?? Would we rather Conway if he slips?? Yes. But what about he or Kai Lohmann?? maybe?
5 decent picks in this draft is quite tempting if we want to restock with some real youth.
I tend to agree with you just one will do.... and Schlensog ticks most of the boxes/needs.

 

[year of the cat]

Rather the 2 picks in the 30s tbh. Given our recent track record having 2 cracks is better than one.
From 2nd round to pick 40

2011: Hamling, Kersten
2012: N/A
2013: Jarred Jansen
2014: N/A
2015: N/A
2016: Parfitt, Stewart
2017: Fogarty, Kelly, Constable
2018: N/A
2019: N/A
2020: Neale

I'd give a pass to Stewart and Kelly only.
Add in Round 1 selections in that time and Woof! Have we had a lot of misses.

Adds weight to CE's churn and burn theory. So I'd rather more picks to better the chances of getting a hit in an area of the draft we have had little success in during recent seasons.

By trading up you do get 2 picks in the (early) 20’s snd 1 in the 30’s. I think a better chance, in this draft, of success than 3 in the 30’s. No guarantees, but looking at the names, and knowing we need to rebuild our midfield, that is the way I’d go. 3 picks in the 30’s might just see another Jarvis/Kennerley type draft.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

I dont think id add either to the senior list to be honest, weve got a decent draft hand I dont want to fill list spots with a 23 year old thats shown next to nothing or a bloke we decided wasnt good enough only 12 months ago, sincerely hoping we just go to the draft this year.

I think Schlensog was a 50/50 listening to wells i think... if i heard it correctly.
If Krueger or Hendo were not here he would of stuck on.
So with both gone, all we have is SDK in the wings and thats it.
Interestingly Nightmare has the Schlong rated between 25-40 pick wise.
As for big key position players i'd say he was top 5.
Why not use RFA to get a bloke without using a draft pick of his calibre.
Use that free pick in a bundle to move up into pick #23?? and kill 2 birds with the one stone.

 

[Kitcat]

Schlensog is a top 30-40 pick all day everyday in this upcoming draft. Get him for nothing. YES THANKS!!
As for Brander. Would he be better than a Pick 43(50)?? Would we rather Conway if he slips?? Yes. But what about he or Kai Lohmann?? maybe?
5 decent picks in this draft is quite tempting if we want to restock with some real youth.
I tend to agree with you just one will do.... and Schlensog ticks most of the boxes/needs.

Agree on Schenslog. A lot of potential and is ready for senior football.

 

[Footy Smarts]

5 seasons in and still can't average 20 touches a game. Piss poor for a midfielder.

You and I were watching different Geelong's.
Selwood on fumes was better than all but Danger, Duncan (when they played) and Guthrie.

Parfitt, Narkle, Menegola had inferior year than a veteran many say is cooked.
With respect, CE has schooled you here.
His point was coherent and accurate.



Rather the 2 picks in the 30s tbh. Given our recent track record having 2 cracks is better than one.
From 2nd round to pick 40

2011: Hamling, Kersten
2012: N/A
2013: Jarred Jansen
2014: N/A
2015: N/A
2016: Parfitt, Stewart
2017: Fogarty, Kelly, Constable
2018: N/A
2019: N/A
2020: Neale

I'd give a pass to Stewart and Kelly only.
Add in Round 1 selections in that time and Woof! Have we had a lot of misses.

Adds weight to CE's churn and burn theory. So I'd rather more picks to better the chances of getting a hit in an area of the draft we have had little success in during recent seasons.

Lol at not even rating Parfitt a pass at pick 26.

I don't think he's been dropped in his 5 years at the club, he plays a critical role in his early 20s and has led our team in tackles for the last 3 seasons.

How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that? Apart from Selwood arguably none.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

5 seasons in and still can't average 20 touches a game. Piss poor for a midfielder.

You and I were watching different Geelong's.
Selwood on fumes was better than all but Danger, Duncan (when they played) and Guthrie.

Parfitt, Narkle, Menegola had inferior year than a veteran many say is cooked.
With respect, CE has schooled you here.
His point was coherent and accurate.



Rather the 2 picks in the 30s tbh. Given our recent track record having 2 cracks is better than one.
From 2nd round to pick 40

2011: Hamling, Kersten
2012: N/A
2013: Jarred Jansen
2014: N/A
2015: N/A
2016: Parfitt, Stewart
2017: Fogarty, Kelly, Constable
2018: N/A
2019: N/A
2020: Neale

I'd give a pass to Stewart and Kelly only.
Add in Round 1 selections in that time and Woof! Have we had a lot of misses.

Adds weight to CE's churn and burn theory. So I'd rather more picks to better the chances of getting a hit in an area of the draft we have had little success in during recent seasons.

I do agree that in general having 2 shots at a draftee over 1 is better but it depends on the quality of each specific draft pool i can think of holmes last year and a few other specific instances in recent years where trading up can be really worth it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Lol at not even rating Parfitt a pass at pick 26.

I don't think he's been dropped in his 5 years at the club, he plays a critical role in his early 20s and has led our team in tackles for the last 3 seasons.

How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that? Apart from Selwood arguably none.

Duncan is the other one i can think of. But i do agree parfitt has been a good pick.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Has anyone in the media done a 2021 AFL phantom draft? As I can't see anything out there....

In 2019, with a full year of nab league and BigFooty departments and a whole lot more scouting opportunities Twomey put out a top 35 only the week before. We'll be waiting a while and might not even get many pundits committing past 20

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Thanks for that. The AFL said on 4 August 2021 that clubs will not be able to move primary listed players to the rookie list between the first and second list lodgment periods to open up senior spots, which was permitted last season.
Clubs will "...be able to shift players on the senior list to the rookie list in the time between the national draft and rookie drafts if the player is contracted for 2022." It doesn't sound like we can use that to get DFA players on to the senior list and at the same time keep all our draft picks, unless we can still get DFAs after the draft ends.

You can add them via the SSP I believe. Not sure they will but it's possible.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm against initiating draft pick only trades on principal. You see teams either paying a principal or gambling for little gain with a huge potential to be burnt. facilitating other teams desires seems to be much more profitable

I was going to say Holmes an exception but iirc Richmond was pretty eager to trade out

 

[CatToTheFuture]

In 2019, with a full year of nab league and BigFooty departments and a whole lot more scouting opportunities Twomey put out a top 35 only the week before. We'll be waiting a while and might not even get many pundits committing past 20

Lol at my autocorrect turning "big football departments" into "BigFooty departments"

One of those things is more useful than the other

 

[Lana]

I was going to say Holmes an exception but iirc Richmond was pretty eager to trade out

I don't think he's an exception, that trade really could have hurt us, I don't see it as a clear win we rolled a similar if not slightly worse dice a year earlier.

To me the trade didn't make sense in the context of our list build. Our list is stacked for the present, we're struggling to offer opportunity to our young talent. I'd have been trying to push drafting players later especially after the Cameron trade.

 

[CatRiot]

WB know that Daicos will be bid first.

Therefore the order of the draft and point values change if a trade is done on the night which makes more sense.

After Daicos goes instantaneously our picks become #23, #31, #33, #35 and #46

The WB will want the point value of #24 covered + a extra points + a Future pick.

If we trade 33, 35 + our F3 for #24 (300 points + F3rd). They would still have a live pick at 47 this year which then comes into #42 as they wipe out 1750 points for Darcy. Be a dream for them.

They would leave us with #24, #25, #32 & #43 on the night.

Everyone seems to win. Decent price to pay and maybe we could get away with Haw F4th but unlikely.

Daicos will be 2nd pick. Pretty sure NM will go Horne-Francis. GWS will go for the Daicos bid, and no2.

Gotta admit, this is probably the strongest crop of possible DFA's that I've seen in a very long time.

Off the top of my head, these are all players worthy of consideration for a second shot, IMO:

Brander
Schlensog
Woodcock
Dumont
Hore
Naish
Garthwaite
Gleeson
Lienert
Eggmolesse-Smith
M. Ling
Gibbons
Sier
Cavarra
Lonie
Taheny (us)
Constable (us)
Rantall
Cousins

...and these are just the players from clubs that have delisted players of note. Still plenty of clubs left/list finalizations to be completed.

Just goes to show how the list squeeze/caps, is/are pushing out players who formerly would have been near guarantees to stick around

Its not a bad list, but probably Brander is the one I'd consider. I think Schlensog would get found out at AFL level.
I wonder what Sier's limitations are, probably footy IQ and general play reading, as he has good attributes - pace, strength, decent skills. Maybe motor is questionable... His first season was probably his best season. He reminds me of Martin Pike from Lions, the way he used to play.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I don't think he's an exception, that trade really could have hurt us, I don't see it as a clear win we rolled a similar if not slightly worse dice a year earlier.

To me the trade didn't make sense in the context of our list build. Our list is stacked for the present, we're struggling to offer opportunity to our young talent. I'd have been trying to push drafting players later especially after the Cameron trade.

I guess we'll see on how it pans out long term but with Holmes in hand for us a reasonably high risk of failure at that selection I'll take it as a win to date.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Daicos will be 2nd pick. Pretty sure NM will go Horne-Francis. GWS will go for the Daicos bid, and no2.

Its not a bad list, but probably Brander is the one I'd consider. I think Schlensog would get found out at AFL level.
I wonder what Sier's limitations are, probably footy IQ and general play reading, as he has good attributes - pace, strength, decent skills. Maybe motor is questionable... His first season was probably his best season. He reminds me of Martin Pike from Lions, the way he used to play.

****, we'll take 6 of them

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Lol at not even rating Parfitt a pass at pick 26.

I don't think he's been dropped in his 5 years at the club, he plays a critical role in his early 20s and has led our team in tackles for the last 3 seasons.

How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that? Apart from Selwood arguably none.

Big whoop. He tackles.

Can't hit 20 touches a game.
Can't kick over a jam tin.
Panics under pressure.
Not good user by foot.
Average at best as a clearance player.

His point of difference you have as tackles?

He got 15 more than the captain who you are taking a dump on over his B&F finish. Who also got more of the footy (4 touches a game) and more clearances (2 per game) led the club for goal assists.

You're pumping up the 5 year start of a bloke who can't even better our captain on his last legs.
His games above 20 touches v oppo ladder position (2020 shortened games left off): 9th, 5th, 2nd, 16th, 10th, 6th, 5th, 15th, 4th, 6th, 12th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 4th, 18th, 6th, 12th, 16th, 17th, 5th, 4th, 11th, 7th, 1st, 2nd.

26/77 non-shortened games he passes the low bar of 20 disposals. A midfielder's bare minimum requirement.
That is 1 in 3 games. If we raise the bar to 25 touches it is now 4/77. 2/77 for 30+

2018: 18 disp 4.5 tackles 1.4 clearances
2019: 18.2 - 5.5 - 2.85
2020 (extrapolated): 19.3 - 7.5 - 3.5
2021: 18.6 - 5.6 - 3.2

See nothing but 4 years of stagnation. Still nothing more than 6th wheel in the midfield.. and wheels 1-5 are 33yo, 31yo, 30yo and 29yo x2. Not getting any younger yet Parfitt and Narkle do not take the next step. Their apparent ceiling is mid role player at best.

"How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that"

After 5 seasons had gone past the low bar of 20 disp

Duncan: 47 times
Bartel: 40 times.
Corey: 33 times
Ling: 55 times
Kelly: 32 times
Christensen: 45 times

So please please never again compare him to Selwood as you did earlier.
It is utterly insulting.

" Parfitt literally just produced a season equivalent to what Joel just did and is getting slammed for it. "

That was the remark and is downright insulting to Joel Selwood.

 

[Strange Cat]

Big whoop. He tackles.

Can't hit 20 touches a game.
Can't kick over a jam tin.
Panics under pressure.
Not good user by foot.
Average at best as a clearance player.

His point of difference you have as tackles?

He got 15 more than the captain who you are taking a dump on over his B&F finish. Who also got more of the footy (4 touches a game) and more clearances (2 per game) led the club for goal assists.

You're pumping up the 5 year start of a bloke who can't even better our captain on his last legs.
His games above 20 touches v oppo ladder position (2020 shortened games left off): 9th, 5th, 2nd, 16th, 10th, 6th, 5th, 15th, 4th, 6th, 12th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 4th, 18th, 6th, 12th, 16th, 17th, 5th, 4th, 11th, 7th, 1st, 2nd.

26/77 non-shortened games he passes the low bar of 20 disposals. A midfielder's bare minimum requirement.
That is 1 in 3 games. If we raise the bar to 25 touches it is now 4/77. 2/77 for 30+

2018: 18 disp 4.5 tackles 1.4 clearances
2019: 18.2 - 5.5 - 2.85
2020 (extrapolated): 19.3 - 7.5 - 3.5
2021: 18.6 - 5.6 - 3.2

See nothing but 4 years of stagnation. Still nothing more than 6th wheel in the midfield.. and wheels 1-5 are 33yo, 31yo, 30yo and 29yo x2. Not getting any younger yet Parfitt and Narkle do not take the next step. Their apparent ceiling is mid role player at best.

"How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that"

After 5 seasons had gone past the low bar of 20 disp

Duncan: 47 times
Bartel: 40 times.
Corey: 33 times
Ling: 55 times
Kelly: 32 times
Christensen: 45 times

So please please never again compare him to Selwood as you did earlier.
It is utterly insulting.

" Parfitt literally just produced a season equivalent to what Joel just did and is getting slammed for it. "

That was the remark and is downright insulting to Joel Selwood.

Parfait is playing the defensive role in the midfield as no one else is prepared to do that , we have **** all defensive side there when he’s injured

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Parfait is playing the defensive role in the midfield as no one else is prepared to do that , we have fu** all defensive side there when he’s injured

Well the French contingent of cats fans are impressed at least

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Parfait is playing the defensive role in the midfield as no one else is prepared to do that , we have fu** all defensive side there when he’s injured

If he could do anything else then he would and someone else would be the defensive mid.
Regardless, he was nearly bettered at his role by his cooked captain. Purely because Joel never gives in and always gives 100%.

Being 'the guy' in our midfield to do the defensive work at stoppages like blocks and tackles shouldn't preclude actually getting the football.

Keays, Laird, Zorko, Lyons, Walsh, Merrett, Miller, Greenwood, Taranto, Kelly, Mitchell, Viney, Brayshaw, Neal-Bullen, Petracca, Oliver, Drew, Boak, Wines, Amon, Graham, Steele, B.Crouch, Parker, Rowbottom, Kennedy, Liberatore, Macrae, Bontempelli - Parfitt, Selwood. All over 100 tackles.

Under 20 disp per game from that list: Parfitt, Greenwood, Neal-Bullen, Drew and Rowbottom.
That list is a who's who of AFL mids. Many AA's in there, heaps that get the footy 25-35 times a game. So can do it offensively and defensively.

Our Brandon falls into the same category of tacklers as the best of the 'role player'
To read the assertion that Parfitt had a equivalent year to Selwood. Yeah no way sunshine.

 

[Warhorse]

Big whoop. He tackles.

Can't hit 20 touches a game.
Can't kick over a jam tin.
Panics under pressure.
Not good user by foot.
Average at best as a clearance player.

His point of difference you have as tackles?

He got 15 more than the captain who you are taking a dump on over his B&F finish. Who also got more of the footy (4 touches a game) and more clearances (2 per game) led the club for goal assists.

You're pumping up the 5 year start of a bloke who can't even better our captain on his last legs.
His games above 20 touches v oppo ladder position (2020 shortened games left off): 9th, 5th, 2nd, 16th, 10th, 6th, 5th, 15th, 4th, 6th, 12th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 4th, 18th, 6th, 12th, 16th, 17th, 5th, 4th, 11th, 7th, 1st, 2nd.

26/77 non-shortened games he passes the low bar of 20 disposals. A midfielder's bare minimum requirement.
That is 1 in 3 games. If we raise the bar to 25 touches it is now 4/77. 2/77 for 30+

2018: 18 disp 4.5 tackles 1.4 clearances
2019: 18.2 - 5.5 - 2.85
2020 (extrapolated): 19.3 - 7.5 - 3.5
2021: 18.6 - 5.6 - 3.2

See nothing but 4 years of stagnation. Still nothing more than 6th wheel in the midfield.. and wheels 1-5 are 33yo, 31yo, 30yo and 29yo x2. Not getting any younger yet Parfitt and Narkle do not take the next step. Their apparent ceiling is mid role player at best.

"How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that"

After 5 seasons had gone past the low bar of 20 disp

Duncan: 47 times
Bartel: 40 times.
Corey: 33 times
Ling: 55 times
Kelly: 32 times
Christensen: 45 times

So please please never again compare him to Selwood as you did earlier.
It is utterly insulting.

" Parfitt literally just produced a season equivalent to what Joel just did and is getting slammed for it. "

That was the remark and is downright insulting to Joel Selwood.

His lack of improvement is the most concerning part. He was in and out of the side a couple of years ago with back problems and was still averaging what he averages now. I would still hold onto him as a depth midfielder. Perhaps he can play the role of a Hewitt who can perhaps lock down an opponent.

 

[Shadow89]

Big whoop. He tackles.

Can't hit 20 touches a game.
Can't kick over a jam tin.
Panics under pressure.
Not good user by foot.
Average at best as a clearance player.

His point of difference you have as tackles?

He got 15 more than the captain who you are taking a dump on over his B&F finish. Who also got more of the footy (4 touches a game) and more clearances (2 per game) led the club for goal assists.

You're pumping up the 5 year start of a bloke who can't even better our captain on his last legs.
His games above 20 touches v oppo ladder position (2020 shortened games left off): 9th, 5th, 2nd, 16th, 10th, 6th, 5th, 15th, 4th, 6th, 12th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 4th, 18th, 6th, 12th, 16th, 17th, 5th, 4th, 11th, 7th, 1st, 2nd.

26/77 non-shortened games he passes the low bar of 20 disposals. A midfielder's bare minimum requirement.
That is 1 in 3 games. If we raise the bar to 25 touches it is now 4/77. 2/77 for 30+

2018: 18 disp 4.5 tackles 1.4 clearances
2019: 18.2 - 5.5 - 2.85
2020 (extrapolated): 19.3 - 7.5 - 3.5
2021: 18.6 - 5.6 - 3.2

See nothing but 4 years of stagnation. Still nothing more than 6th wheel in the midfield.. and wheels 1-5 are 33yo, 31yo, 30yo and 29yo x2. Not getting any younger yet Parfitt and Narkle do not take the next step. Their apparent ceiling is mid role player at best.

"How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that"

After 5 seasons had gone past the low bar of 20 disp

Duncan: 47 times
Bartel: 40 times.
Corey: 33 times
Ling: 55 times
Kelly: 32 times
Christensen: 45 times

So please please never again compare him to Selwood as you did earlier.
It is utterly insulting.

" Parfitt literally just produced a season equivalent to what Joel just did and is getting slammed for it. "

That was the remark and is downright insulting to Joel Selwood.

I'd argue that both had good seasons, with Parfitt being more of a role player, and Selwood getting to play his preferred role as an inside mid.

Selwood had a better season, but Parf (as Strange Cat pointed out) has to play that accountable defensive role, which gives him more tackles and a higher pressure rating - but less disposals.

It's the same thing Guthrie got lambasted for when he played that same role, because TK, Danger and Sel were all attacking mids. TK wrote an article about how important Guth's role was for the team, and just how good he was at it.

Parf does very much the same thing, and in time, the baton will be handed on to someone else - which will then mean he'll get to play that more attacking role. In his best game against the Saints back in 2018 in that role, he had 30+ and kicked 3 goals. Not to mention, that for most of his career he's played that difficult high half forward role, which nets you only around 15-20 possessions a game at best anyway.

While I do agree that Selwood had a better season, it could be argued that Parfitt's self-sacrificial role, much like Guth prior to him, was that much more important to the team.

Both finished Top 10 in the B+F, and both had great seasons (they only finished 7 votes apart and played a similar amount of games so the differential is inconsequential IMO).

************************************

TL; DR both respective players can be lauded for their respective outputs/roles they played for the team this year. You don't have to sh*t on one, just to defend the other.

 

[MacStradbroke]

Alistair Lord to Geelong surely! (I have no idea what even he looks like tbh)

 

[foodles05]

AFL Draft Combine results

NAB League Boys players recorded the top results among all participants in each physical test at this week’s NAB AFL Draft Combine in Melbourne.

www.afl.com.au

14th in the running vertical leap
7th in the 2km time trial
Equal 1st in the yo, yo test

Pretty decent results for a taller mid, IMO.

Yeah that's what I thought that he tested well and better than he looked to me on the field. Hope I was wrong about him. Really really wrong cause he never had anything that excited me about him although I only watched a few times.