Rumour GFC 2023 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt1

[cats_09]

As we are now getting into the season and we are starting to get a bit more serious with discussion, seems a suitable time to post the following as it's repeatedly shown itself to be a value reference tool in trade & draft discussion

And as per normal, thanks to Lore for putting this together - always a fantastic reference tool



And yes this post is now stickied - makes it easy to keep track of (can easily reverse this though if needed)

 

[catempire]

I remember losing Allen Christensen and being disappointed that we got Rhys Stanley. Paid off well.

I remember saying we won that trade and being laughed at.

 

[gocats88]

I’m probably someone who laughed at you back then. The only positive I felt at the time was knowing he was a good runner to have won a gf sprint.

Probably was a good aphrodisiac for some partners also

 

[BORIS332]

I remember saying we won that trade and being laughed at.

View attachment 1571720

He’s still close to the worst first ruck in the comp.

 

[D BRIDGE]

He’s still close to the worst first ruck in the comp.

Harsh... but true.

You sound just like me.

We still won the trade though.

 

[Two Planks]

He’s still close to the worst first ruck in the comp.



Depends which one of him turns up.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I remember saying we won that trade and being laughed at.

View attachment 1571720

To be fair at the time paying a top 25 pick for stanley given how little he had shown at the saints was real overs. Luckily for us that draft pool in 2014 turned out to be absolutely average and lacking in depth and bundys career never reached great heights at brisbane. Turned out ok in the end.

 

[Shadow89]

He’s still close to the worst first ruck in the comp.

Mmm, I wouldn't go that far...he's not the best, but he's also not the worst.

Ahead of:

Marc Pittonet (Carlton)
Darcy Cameron (Collingwood)
Sam Draper (Essendon)
Braydon Preuss (GWS)
Ned Reeves (Hawthorn)

On par with:


Reilly O'Brien (Adelaide)
Oscar McInerney (Brisbane)
Scott Lycett (Port)
Toby Nankervis (Richmond)
Tom Hickey (Sydney)

Behind:

Sean Darcy (Fremantle)
Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast)
Max Gawn (Melbourne)
Todd Goldstein (North)
Rowan Marshall (Saints)
Nic Nat (West Coast
Tim English (Bulldogs)

************************

So he's either ahead of, or on par with, 10 other ruckmen at opposition clubs - and behind 7 others. Definition of solid but unspectacular - which is what most GF ruckmen are over the past decade or so.

Also doesn't hurt his standing, that the standard of competition across the comp for rucks is decidedly average these days - as it's nowhere near the priority it once used to be.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Shadow89 for someone usually pretty switched on, your rating of Stanley v other rucks seems wild to me.

I'm so pumped he is a premiership ruckman... but he had been a liability in his position for many years.

 

[Shadow89]

Shadow89 for someone usually pretty switched on, your rating of Stanley v other rucks seems wild to me.

I'm so pumped he is a premiership ruckman... but he had been a liability in his position for many years.

No argument here about him being a liability, but I'm not really pumping him up at all, tbh (he's still one of the players I yell at on the TV, haha) - I'm more highlighting his rating in comparison to others. Much like you might consider someone more intelligent if they're standing amogst a group of people who are less intelligent than them, it doesn't make the person objectively more intelligent - it just appears that way because the standard within that particular group isn't as high as it might be outside the group (i.e. mids, forwards and defenders in the AFL).

If you look at the list I posted, the quality of first ruck now is quite stark in contrast to the rest of the elite talent distributed throughout the AFL. He is what he is, a player with talent who is injury prone and only tries when he feels like it. His best is good enough to match the best rucks in the comp, but his worst is worse than some of the worst rucks across the comp.

If the clubs listed had better talent (and some may in the future with the case of Draper and TDK for example), then he'd be much worse in comparison. As it stands though, he's currently shown more/is good enough to match, 10 other sides' ruckmen in the comp, even on his average days.

On his bad IDGAF days, he's probably the worst, but when taking his entire career into consideration, he is what he is - a decidedly average ruckman with glimpses of talent, who can't do it on a consistent basis. Not bad enough to have anyone else surpass him, yet not good enough to unequivocally never have his spot in doubt like the Top 7 listed.

I'm not even a fan, it's just the decline in quality of ruck across the comp, that sees his standing where it is. I'll be grateful for the day Conway takes over, but until then, he's the best we've got and now has a flag to show for it - as some of the other on par average rucks I listed, do as well.

 

[bulletproof]

He’s still close to the worst first ruck in the comp.

Sorry but this is absolute rubbish.

Stanley is comfortably in the second tier of rucks. There is a tier one (Gawn, Darcy, and a few others). Then the second tier, all of these second tier rucks, have good days and bad days.

Tom Hickey’s extremely bad day happened on Grand Final day for example. The week before Collingwood’s man got thumped by Hickey in the first half.

I said this long before the finals, so this not re-writing history now he is a premiership player.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Nankervis is twice the footballer Stanley is.

 

[goyoucatters]

Seems like this pointless (and borderline histrionic) Stanley-bashing should get its own thread. You would think he cost us the flag, rather than what he actually provided for the Cats in season 2022. A more than adequate performance as first ruck that allowed others to shine and our system to thrive.

To feel the need to denigrate our premiership ruckman in the aftermath of his most consistent season in the hoops is just bemusing to me.

 

[Shadow89]

Nankervis is twice the footballer Stanley is.

So put him ahead of Stanley then if you want...doesn't change the fact that Stanley is still on par with, or ahead of, more than half the comp.

 

[Sky]

Mmm, I wouldn't go that far...he's not the best, but he's also not the worst.

Ahead of:

Marc Pittonet (Carlton)
Darcy Cameron (Collingwood)
Sam Draper (Essendon)
Braydon Preuss (GWS)
Ned Reeves (Hawthorn)

On par with:


Reilly O'Brien (Adelaide)
Oscar McInerney (Brisbane)
Scott Lycett (Port)
Toby Nankervis (Richmond)
Tom Hickey (Sydney)

Behind:

Sean Darcy (Fremantle)
Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast)
Max Gawn (Melbourne)
Todd Goldstein (North)
Rowan Marshall (Saints)
Nic Nat (West Coast
Tim English (Bulldogs)

************************

So he's either ahead of, or on par with, 10 other ruckmen at opposition clubs - and behind 7 others. Definition of solid but unspectacular - which is what most GF ruckmen are over the past decade or so.

Also doesn't hurt his standing, that the standard of competition across the comp for rucks is decidedly average these days - as it's nowhere near the priority it once used to be.

Wouldn’t Darcy Cameron be better since Collingwood willingly got rid of Brodie Grundy?

I’d prefer Stanley to Goldstein in 2023 also.

 

[goyoucatters]

So put him ahead of Stanley then if you want...doesn't change the fact that he's still on par with or ahead of, more than half the comp.

Statements like this one about Nank are just spurious. If Toby was twice as good as Stanley, he'd be as good (or better) than Gawn. Which is clearly not the case.

 

[Shadow89]

Wouldn’t Darcy Cameron be better since Collingwood willingly got rid of Brodie Grundy?

I’d prefer Stanley to Goldstein in 2023 also.

Collingwood think he's better, but he got absolutely owned by Hickey in the Prelim...so I think it's just a case of them not having much cash and going the money ball option in Cameron who is as good as 'crap Grundy', but nowhere near 'elite Grundy.' They'll definitely rue that decision when they're getting close to winning a flag...but they're missing that key ingredient in Grundy - like we were for pretty much a decade.

Goldy is still objectively a better ruckman on natural talent, so that's why I have him in that elite category. With that said, Xerri is now preferred, and Goldy likely retires soon - probably end of next year even, to make way for the CCJ and Xerri combo. I'd have Stanley ahead too, but overall, Goldy's vast body of elite work as a ruck, still has him as a far superior option when he's at his best, compared to Stanley.

 

[thejester]

Sorry but this is absolute rubbish.

Stanley is comfortably in the second tier of rucks. There is a tier one (Gawn, Darcy, and a few others). Then the second tier, all of these second tier rucks, have good days and bad days.

Tom Hickey’s extremely bad day happened on Grand Final day for example. The week before Collingwood’s man got thumped by Hickey in the first half.

I said this long before the finals, so this not re-writing history now he is a premiership player.

I'd only add to this that Stanley is also Exhibit A for the way ruckmen get blamed for the sins of their midfielders.

 

[bulletproof]

I would group Stanley with the Big O, Hickey, English, Nankervis, Lycett, Jacobs.

English will be much better (may have already moved out of this group), Nankervis was better. But right now, they are at similar level.

Given Geelong’s stars in other areas, this is the right level ruck for us from a salary cap usage point of view.

 

[Drunkcat]

Stanley like a few has had very bad Finals, but like a few others he played good finals footy this year

 

[AM]

I would group Stanley with the Big O, Hickey, English, Nankervis, Lycett, Jacobs.

English will be much better (may have already moved out of this group), Nankervis was better. But right now, they are at similar level.

Given Geelong’s stars in other areas, this is the right level ruck for us from a salary cap usage point of view.

Hmm! Wouldn't say no to Gawn tho.

 

[calder_daddy]

Seriously who gives a crap about whether Stanley is good or not.
He’s a premiership ruckman who had a very good season by his standards.

A lot of blokes on here just like to find something to complain about

 

[catempire]

To be fair at the time paying a top 25 pick for stanley given how little he had shown at the saints was real overs. Luckily for us that draft pool in 2014 turned out to be absolutely average and lacking in depth and bundys career never reached great heights at brisbane. Turned out ok in the end.

Recruiting isn’t about paying for what a player has shown. It’s about paying what you think they can produce in future. Wells smashed that trade. To be fair.

 

[catempire]

Mmm, I wouldn't go that far...he's not the best, but he's also not the worst.

Ahead of:

Marc Pittonet (Carlton)
Darcy Cameron (Collingwood)
Sam Draper (Essendon)
Braydon Preuss (GWS)
Ned Reeves (Hawthorn)

On par with:


Reilly O'Brien (Adelaide)
Oscar McInerney (Brisbane)
Scott Lycett (Port)
Toby Nankervis (Richmond)
Tom Hickey (Sydney)

Behind:

Sean Darcy (Fremantle)
Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast)
Max Gawn (Melbourne)
Todd Goldstein (North)
Rowan Marshall (Saints)
Nic Nat (West Coast
Tim English (Bulldogs)

************************

So he's either ahead of, or on par with, 10 other ruckmen at opposition clubs - and behind 7 others. Definition of solid but unspectacular - which is what most GF ruckmen are over the past decade or so.

Also doesn't hurt his standing, that the standard of competition across the comp for rucks is decidedly average these days - as it's nowhere near the priority it once used to be.

And he often holds his own with the best rucks in the league. It’s his stinkers that people remember.

 

[Strange Cat]

And he often holds his own with the best rucks in the league. It’s his stinkers that people remember.

I think it’s more the frustration that we can all see that he can be a very good player and has all the attributes and skills for his role …it’s just that he can tend to have big blocks of bad games and create a rut for himself his consistency is a big issue

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Recruiting isn’t about paying for what a player has shown. It’s about paying what you think they can produce in future. Wells smashed that trade. To be fair.

I agree but stanley wasnt really giving any indication he would produce much in the future (6 years in,inconsistent player). He has also been inconsistent with us but the last 2 years it has really paid off for us. A calculated gamble that paid off.
My point was more about the varying quality of draft pools..in a better draft 21 would have been serious overpay..as that draft pool turned out to be very poor we did well.