Greatest allrounder

[aflcliche]

Average, Strike rate, economy

Sobers: 34.03, 91.9, 2.22
Kallis: 32.63, 69, 2.83

Kallis is a better bowler.



Monty Noble.

Really? Based on stats, right?

 

[Black Diamond]

Really? Based on stats, right?

Lets see, he concedes fewer runs per wicket, and takes a wicket every 11.5 overs rather than 15.2 overs. So yes, Kallis better.

 

[chargers 09]

I'd like to change my answer to Imran Khan if I had the chance. POBT, could you show some evidence of those stats you mentioned before? Astonishing if true.

 

[sherb]

Lets see, he concedes fewer runs per wicket, and takes a wicket every 11.5 overs rather than 15.2 overs. So yes, Kallis better.

Some of that strike rate difference would be explained by the fact that Sobers also bowled spin.

The figures wouldn't be available, but it would be interesting to know what Sobers' strike rate was when he was in fast medium mode.

 

[Black Diamond]

Some of that strike rate difference would be explained by the fact that Sobers also bowled spin.

The figures wouldn't be available, but it would be interesting to know what Sobers' strike rate was when he was in fast medium mode.

Agreed, it would be interesting. But it's still an immense difference.

 

[aflcliche]

Lets see, he concedes fewer runs per wicket, and takes a wicket every 11.5 overs rather than 15.2 overs. So yes, Kallis better.

Fair enough. But you know Sobers also bowled spin so the stats get affected and secondly being able to bowl spin and pace I would say makes him more valuable. Therefore I would argue we cannot judge Kallis as better on stats alone.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Comparing Kallis and Sobers is folly.

Played in vastly different eras with vastly differing conditions - so stats don't tell the full picture, but they are still very compelling.

You'd be hard pressed to find better records than Kallis and Sobers. If I had to be pushed I'd say Sobers purely on the reported speed at which he scored his runs. Fast paced scoring gives your team the best opportunity to win.

Of course the counter-argument is Kallis had a better strike rate bowling.

All in all - two wonderful cricketers who would quite comfortably bat at 6 in the best XI of all time

 

[Black Diamond]

Fair enough. But you know Sobers also bowled spin so the stats get affected and secondly being able to bowl spin and pace I would say makes him more valuable. Therefore I would argue we cannot judge Kallis as better on stats alone.

I know he bowled spin. I definitely think Sobers was better. I just think his batting is the main reason.

 

[CAS79]

Comparing Kallis and Sobers is folly.

Played in vastly different eras with vastly differing conditions - so stats don't tell the full picture, but they are still very compelling.

You'd be hard pressed to find better records than Kallis and Sobers. If I had to be pushed I'd say Sobers purely on the reported speed at which he scored his runs. Fast paced scoring gives your team the best opportunity to win.

Of course the counter-argument is Kallis had a better strike rate bowling.

All in all - two wonderful cricketers who would quite comfortably bat at 6 in the best XI of all time

Agreed you cant compare era's like that....

oh and I think we need to look at Geroge Giffen and Mr Grace v These 2 as well......

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

The stats that POBT mentioned on Imran Khan are correct. I just had a check and between 1981 and 1991, the final ten year of his career, he averaged 49.50 with the bat and 19.18 with the ball.

Astonishing and something that I wouldn't have known at all. Despite not being in my top three initially, those stats make him the greatest all-rounder to me in my opinion. I honestly cannot get over how good his final ten years were. Incredible.

 

[POBT]

I'd like to change my answer to Imran Khan if I had the chance. POBT, could you show some evidence of those stats you mentioned before? Astonishing if true.

No evidence as I just remember seeing/hearing it but Statsguru might give you the answer. I'll look it up if I get the chance.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

SpanMatRunsHSBat Av100WktsBBIBowl Av5CtSt
unfiltered 1971-1992 88 3807 136 37.69 6 362 8/58 22.81 23 28 0 Profile
filtered 1981-1992 55 2624 136 49.50 5 234 8/58 19.18 15 19 0


Not well formatted but, Imran Khan's stats for what it is worth

 

[dan warna]

Kallis used to be a demon fast bowler when he was young, but he slowed down over time.
was in the 28/29 area for his bowling for his first 200 odd test wickets.

 

[dan warna]

in the current era, 50 is the pass mark for a test cricketer pretty much.

In sobers era, it was a rare thing.

 

[Black Diamond]

I reckon Imran often gets overlooked. IIRC, in the last 10 years of his career, he averaged around 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball. That is phenomenal. He'd be in my top 3.

I'd like to change my answer to Imran Khan if I had the chance. POBT, could you show some evidence of those stats you mentioned before? Astonishing if true.

I recall this stat. Just popping over to Cricinfo now, Imran Khan:

Imran just got better and better: in his last 10 years of international cricket he played 51 Tests, averaging a sensational 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Not only is Kallis clearly the best all rounder, he is also the best batsman of the last 30 years or even since Bradman.
I feel so sorry for this guy who is just panels ahead of the next best in his own era and is not even recognised as such.
He has Lara and Tendlulka covered in stats. he has arguably played on harder wickets to score runs than Tendulka consistantly.
Tendulka is treated as some genius yet Kallis averages better than him???
Why is he not rated as the worlds greatest batsman by the length of the flemington straight?
Tendulka 190 tests at 55, kallis 157 tests at 58.

When is this guy going to be credited with what he deserves?
What does he need to play more tests to prove himself???????????????

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Lol who voted for Watson?

And why is Watson in the poll?

 

[dan warna]

Keith Miller.

Was bigger than cricket, much like shane warne. He'd probably be one of the biggest personalities in cricket since the big ship by all accounts.

Not only does his cricket stats stand. although slightly inferior to others, he played AFL at state level as well as club level, kicking 8 goals from CHF, was a gun tennis player, also a golfer, dominated at baccarat (james bond card came, its like blackjack), screwed half the english royalty, and BOMBED berlin.

100% win.

also came back with one of the greatest cricket quotes of all time when asked about pressure..."What? ... “Pressure, I'll tell you what pressure is. Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, playing cricket is not"

was a bad boy and cool at the same time.

I know he had a lot of character flaws, probably his ego was one of them, as was his drinking (legendary tales of rocking up to the MCG in a tux after a night of hard core drinking)

even the serious grump the don enjoyed having Miller around.

 

[Slax]

Not only is Kallis clearly the best all rounder, he is also the best batsman of the last 30 years or even since Bradman.
I feel so sorry for this guy who is just panels ahead of the next best in his own era and is not even recognised as such.
He has Lara and Tendlulka covered in stats. he has arguably played on harder wickets to score runs than Tendulka consistantly.
Tendulka is treated as some genius yet Kallis averages better than him???
Why is he not rated as the worlds greatest batsman by the length of the flemington straight?
Tendulka 190 tests at 55, kallis 157 tests at 58.

When is this guy going to be credited with what he deserves?
What does he need to play more tests to prove himself???????????????

Definitely agree on being better than Tendulkar, comparision with Lara is different, Lara was a devistating batsman who could rip apart an attack scoring quickly and big hundreds.

As far as best batsman since Bradman, that is laughable. when you look at the stats maybe, but then look closer at players like Greg Chappell and Viv Richards, they were the only players to average over 50 in an era dominated by the ball. Currently a good batting average is 50, top batting average 55, in the 70s early 80s in was good low 40s top class 48+. This is why a topic like this is such a good debate.

 

[krisholio14]

I reckon Imran often gets overlooked. IIRC, in the last 10 years of his career, he averaged around 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball. That is phenomenal. He'd be in my top 3.

Goes Sobers, Imran, Kallis for mine.

Just for fun, you know that Paul Reiffel has a higher batting average AND lower Bowling average than Benaud? Just saying stats can be fun - Reiffel was seriously under-rated as a player, but not quite in Benaud's league (only playerd 35 tests).

I'd go Sobers - purely because I believe he is in the Top 5 batsmen ever (I rank him No 2). While some of the others are close, I don't think any of them rate in the Top 10 bowlers of all time (nor Kallis as a bat).

And where's the Freddie Flintoff option?

Hadlee is definitely in the top 10. Imran's record suggests he wouldn't be too far away from it either.

 

[POBT]

I recall this stat. Just popping over to Cricinfo now, Imran Khan:

Cheers. Unbelievably impressive.

 

[Gough]

If we factor drinking and living it up to the equation Sobers clearly wins with Miller and Botham probably shading Kallis as well.
Just as a by the way, Warne also scored over 3000 Test runs, the most, I believe by anyone without scoring a century.

 

[Natho]

Kallis. Never saw sobers.

 

[Maddhew]

Keith Miller.

Was bigger than cricket, much like shane warne. He'd probably be one of the biggest personalities in cricket since the big ship by all accounts.

Not only does his cricket stats stand. although slightly inferior to others, he played AFL at state level as well as club level, kicking 8 goals from CHF, was a gun tennis player, also a golfer, dominated at baccarat (james bond card came, its like blackjack), screwed half the english royalty, and BOMBED berlin.

100% win.

also came back with one of the greatest cricket quotes of all time when asked about pressure..."What? ... “Pressure, I'll tell you what pressure is. Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, playing cricket is not"

was a bad boy and cool at the same time.

I know he had a lot of character flaws, probably his ego was one of them, as was his drinking (legendary tales of rocking up to the MCG in a tux after a night of hard core drinking)

even the serious grump the don enjoyed having Miller around.

They need to make a movie about Keith Miller, consider this in modern terms.

Australian Cricketer (team of the century VC), League and Rep Footballer, Fighter Pilot, loveable rogue, rumored affair with royalty, world class womaniser, flawed character

People need to read his Wiki - some highlights

As a batsman, Miller was out for four in the first innings, not offering a shot to an inswinger.[286] In the second innings, Miller's first ball was a hat-trick ball from English captain Norman Yardley; he survived a loud leg before wicket appeal and then hit a six into the grandstand, on his way to 74.[287] Australia declared at 7/460, 595 runs ahead.[288] Miller took three catches as Australia won by 409 runs.[289][290]
After the Lord's Test, Miller enjoyed a night out and returned to the team hotel after daybreak the next morning.[291] Australia were due to play Surrey at The Oval that day. With Australia in the field, Bradman sent Miller to the fine leg boundary as a punishment—between overs, he was forced to walk the length of the field. One of the spectators felt sorry for Miller and lent him his bicycle, which Miller used to cycle around the circumference of the ground

 

[worbod]

I agree. Apparently was an innovative captain too who introduced a new kind of culture and team spirit.

In relation to Benaud as a captain, Ray Illingworth once wrote a book about captaincy in 1980. At the end of the book he analysed some of the more successful captains in cricket history, detailing their strengths and weaknesses. When it came to listing Benaud's weaknesses as a skipper, Illingworth claimed that Richie had none at all. He concluded by writing something along the lines of, "After spending an hour in conversation with Benaud he could convince you to sell your own grandmother."