Hawthorn and Sam Mitchell selling out Clarko

[5ammy]

Doesn't look like he feels sold out to me.

What a bloody legend, love this man

 

[Dewyyyyy]

So if you believe that, you have to accept the decision making process was horrifically flawed and unprofessional? What, Clarko and Mitchell had a 20 minute discussion or whatever it was claimed to be, started the process, and then at the first sign of some nuts and bolts of the deal, after announcing it to the world and coincidentally after the media had just started saying hey there's internal frustrations about this, they decide it's all too hard and quit it? Geez.

It f

Has it been reported anywhere that its a full payout. There was one report i saw that it was 900k. There were rumours that we still had $1.8m owing him

It's around 950k. He's taken a paycut.

 

[SA HAWK]

Quite possibly the dumbest decision an AFL club has ever made. Getting rid of a once in a generation coach for a cocky rookie coach in these uncertain covid times. Kennet putting his ego ahead of anything else, gambling with the clubs future.

So even though he has completely cooked our list over the last 5 years we should just keep him indefinitely because he had success in the past?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Clarkson is a 4/5 goal better coach than almost all other coaches. He is easily the smartest in the room (as opposed to Scott who thinks he is...sorry couldn't help myself).

The club took the punt to go for another flag...on top of the 3 in a row. Does anyone believe it was Clarkson's decision alone to roll the dice?

The was always going to have to be a rebuild. As happened at the Lions. As will happen to the Tiges either end of this year or next. And at the start of the rebuild, Clarko has the list showing plenty of promise. What did people expect?

Something else is at play here. Is this simply Kennett doing a Kennett? He was always going to get one over on Clarko. I guess he finally got his man. And meanwhile, a contender for GOAT coach walks. With almost $1m in a suitcase. And a hit to the soft cap. And a rookie coach taking over.

Nice one Kennett

Clarkson wanted to continue with the top up as he thought he could get these players to climb the mountain again. Couldn’t open him for doing it in 2016/17 but he was doing as recently as 18 months ago. It’s why he and Wright clashed at times.

He kept playing Stratton, Gibson, Poppy etc when they were all cooked instead of getting games into kids. He’s done it again this year with Shiels, and many Hawks also think he’s doing it with Burgoyne.

His loyalty and belief in his players is also one of his biggest weaknesses.

 

[SA HAWK]

Clarkson wanted to continue with the top up as he thought he could get these players to climb the mountain again. Couldn’t open him for doing it in 2016/17 but he was doing as recently as 18 months ago. It’s why he and Wright clashed at times.

He kept playing Stratton, Gibson, Poppy etc when they were all cooked instead of getting games into kids. He’s done it again this year with Shiels, and many Hawks also think he’s doing it with Burgoyne.

His loyalty and belief in his players is also one of his biggest weaknesses.

I have no doubt he promised Burgoyne 400 games because he didn’t want him leaving for the Gold Coast.

2005 Clarko would have cut him the second he walked through the door.

Was done at Hawthorn but would still be a great coach elsewhere.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Some mail floating around about the possible scenario playing out....

- If Kingsley gets the gig at Collingwood
- Increase in soft cap
- Following departure of Leppa and then Kingsley, space in cap wouldn't be a problem
- Clarko to head assistant with Dimma at Richmond


It certainly could just be the old 2+2 = 5 thing... who knows.

What is true is that, if Kingsley does get the Pies job, it would only leave XClarke, McQualter and Lonergan under Dimma...
Pretty sure Richmond would want to bolster that significantly, also considering they have recently lost Carracella and Rutten from that group as well.

maybe this has legs

 

[WillHayward]

Should be a three term limit for club presidents and board members mandated in all club constitutions.

Jeff has simply stayed too long.

Him and Eddie both did good things but both stayed too long.

Both clubs ended up becoming personal vanity projects and dictatorships.


Both men left their clubs in a deep ditch of s**t

 

[WillHayward]

Clarkson wanted to continue with the top up as he thought he could get these players to climb the mountain again. Couldn’t open him for doing it in 2016/17 but he was doing as recently as 18 months ago. It’s why he and Wright clashed at times.

He kept playing Stratton, Gibson, Poppy etc when they were all cooked instead of getting games into kids. He’s done it again this year with Shiels, and many Hawks also think he’s doing it with Burgoyne.

His loyalty and belief in his players is also one of his biggest weaknesses.

Fair point.
Clarko drank his own bathwater and believed he was a "supercoach" where his coaching would overcome lack of cattle.

The reality is cattle and list management are every bit as important as coaching.

Also on top of a weak list, clarko lost a lot of good assistants .

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I have no doubt he promised Burgoyne 400 games because he didn’t want him leaving for the Gold Coast.

2005 Clarko would have cut him the second he walked through the door.

Was done at Hawthorn but would still be a great coach elsewhere.

Yes I think he will be a good coach elsewhere to but at the same time I will not be at all surprised to find that the game has passed him by because it seemed to take quite a bit to get him to see where our list was at over the last 2-3 years.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

maybe this has legs

can you explain why Clarkson would want to be an assistant to Hardwick?

 

[HairyO]

So even though he has completely cooked our list over the last 5 years we should just keep him indefinitely because he had success in the past?

He was going for 4 in a row. Would you rather he dumped players at the end of 2015 and hit the draft? Really?

Was he meant to know Cyril would retire early? Rough would get cancer and miss a year? Birchall would spend 2 years injured? Mitchell would break his leg?

It is simply ridiculous to think that any other coach wouldnt have gone for 4 in a row, and wouldnt have found themselves in the exact same position on the ladder.

I assume Brisbane should have dumped Lethal in 2004...

With half our best 10 players out injured for basically the entire year we have still managed to draw with Melbourne and beat the Swans and GWS. There is no way Mitchell would have done better.

And now Mitchell is taking over as senior coach a year early we now have a green coach who has to work out how to rebuild in less time.

Unless he always knew he was going to be senior coach in 2022...

 

[SA HAWK]

Fair point.
Clarko drank his own bathwater and believed he was a "supercoach" where his coaching would overcome lack of cattle.

The reality is cattle and list management are every bit as important as coaching.

Also on top of a weak list, clarko lost a lot of good assistants .

Fagan was the biggest loss Clarko seemed to lose his way after he left.

 

[SA HAWK]

He was going for 4 in a row. Would you rather he dumped players at the end of 2015 and hit the draft? Really?

Was he meant to know Cyril would retire early? Rough would get cancer and miss a year? Birchall would spend 2 years injured? Mitchell would break his leg?

It is simply ridiculous to think that any other coach wouldnt have gone for 4 in a row, and wouldnt have found themselves in the exact same position on the ladder.

I assume Brisbane should have dumped Lethal in 2004...

With half our best 10 players out injured for basically the entire year we have still managed to draw with Melbourne and beat the Swans and GWS. There is no way Mitchell would have done better.

And now Mitchell is taking over as senior coach a year early we now have a green coach who has to work out how to rebuild in less time.

Unless he always knew he was going to be senior coach in 2022...

No problem with going for 4 in a row but after 2016 he should have realised a rebuild had to happen.

Took him 3 years too long to acknowledge this imo.

 

[HairyO]

No problem with going for 4 in a row but after 2016 he should have realised a rebuild had to happen.

Took him 3 years too long to acknowledge this imo.

We got to 4th spot in 2018. Why the hell would we rebuild after 2016?

 

[Duskfire]

We got to 4th spot in 2018. Why the hell would we rebuild after 2016?

I think the main issue is that Clarkson traded a lot to get players like O'meara and Wingard. Going for more finals is fine, but in hindsight what happened after those trades and the worth of those players is pretty damning. And I think what ultimately has hurt Clarkson in the eyes of Hawthorns Board.

 

[HairyO]

I think the main issue is that Clarkson traded a lot to get players like O'meara and Wingard. Going for more finals is fine, but in hindsight what happened after those trades and the worth of those players is pretty damning. And I think what ultimately has hurt Clarkson in the eyes of Hawthorns Board.

Richmond had 1 more crack. Didnt work.
Geelong are having a crack. May not work.
Any team wanting greatness will take a risk or 3.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Yes I think he will be a good coach elsewhere to but at the same time I will not be at all surprised to find that the game has passed him by because it seemed to take quite a bit to get him to see where our list was at over the last 2-3 years.

My my my...how some of you blokes have turned on him. You would not be surprised if the game has passed him by. Haha...complete and utter dribble. The guy is easily the best coach in the comp. Easily! No grey whatsoever.

Some Hawks poster (was it you?) rattled off 2016 as when the rebuild should have started. And yet Clarko had the team finishing top 4 in 2018.

Some of you blokes are delusional. You're embarrassing yourselves in the rush to justify Kennett's decision making. And you're leader of the pack.

 

[nineteen eighty]

He was going for 4 in a row. Would you rather he dumped players at the end of 2015 and hit the draft? Really?

Was he meant to know Cyril would retire early? Rough would get cancer and miss a year? Birchall would spend 2 years injured? Mitchell would break his leg?

It is simply ridiculous to think that any other coach wouldnt have gone for 4 in a row, and wouldnt have found themselves in the exact same position on the ladder.

I assume Brisbane should have dumped Lethal in 2004...

With half our best 10 players out injured for basically the entire year we have still managed to draw with Melbourne and beat the Swans and GWS. There is no way Mitchell would have done better.

And now Mitchell is taking over as senior coach a year early we now have a green coach who has to work out how to rebuild in less time.

Unless he always knew he was going to be senior coach in 2022...

Exactly. As if Clarko should have known that all those would get injured or retire.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

My my my...how some of you blokes have turned on him. You would not be surprised if the game has passed him by. Haha...complete and utter dribble. The guy is easily the best coach in the comp. Easily! No grey whatsoever.

Some Hawks poster (was it you?) rattled off 2016 as when the rebuild should have started. And yet Clarko had the team finishing top 4 in 2018.

Some of you blokes are delusional. You're embarrassing yourselves in the rush to justify Kennett's decision making. And you're leader of the pack.

I haven’t turned on him at all. We will forever be indebted to him for all the joy that he’s brought this footy club, and I believed in pretty much everything he was trying to do, but at the end of the day we’ve been pretty crap for the last three years at least and there’s been large periods of seasons where we’ve looked completely incapable of matching it with sides. If anything I’m just trying to understand the decision and makes sense of it.

I’m not saying the game has passed him by, but in hindsight and with the knowledge that those in the football department (two of his biggest supporters in the past) decided that his time was up, combined with some of the list management decisions, the match selections, the continual slow starts….you would have to at least ask the question, wouldn’t you?

 

[nineteen eighty]

I haven’t turned on him at all. We will forever be indebted to him for all the joy that he’s brought this footy club, and I believed in pretty much everything he was trying to do, but at the end of the day we’ve been pretty crap for the last three years at least and there’s been large periods of seasons where we’ve looked completely incapable of matching it with sides. If anything I’m just trying to understand the decision and makes sense of it.

I’m not saying the game has passed him by, but in hindsight and with the knowledge that those in the football department (two of his biggest supporters in the past) decided that his time was up, combined with some of the list management decisions, the match selections, the continual slow starts….you would have to at least ask the question, wouldn’t you?

Nah I wouldn't question it for one second. Who are these "biggest supporters in the past" who have made the call?

You're surely not going to tell me that anyone other than Kennett made the call?

And surely you're not trying to justify getting rid of him because of the teams slow starts?!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Nah I wouldn't question it for one second. Who are these "biggest supporters in the past" who have made the call?

You're surely not going to tell me that anyone other than Kennett made the call?

Vandenburg and McCartney, the two heads of the footy dept.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Vandenburg and McCartney, the two heads of the footy dept.

Do you really believe these 2 blokes have been instrumental in turfing Clarko? Especially the way it's played out. Surely you don't believe that. Surely you understand the level of control Kennett has over this.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Do you really believe these 2 blokes have been instrumental in turfing Clarko? Especially the way it's played out. Surely you don't believe that. Surely you understand the level of control Kennett has over this.

They are key members of the football sub committee that report to the board on football matters.
How can they not be?

I hate Kennett as much as the next guy but this was a decision driven by the football dept, the board and then ultimately the players and Clarko himself to end it this week.

You’ve wedded yourself to a ‘side’, without understanding the full picture.

P.s take note of today’s game. Mitchell plays Nash is a midfielder at Box Hill and he dominates yet Clarkson brings him in and plays him as a forward pocket. He finally starts as a midfielder today and he’s had five clearances the half time and given our midfield a much different look. Hawthorn supporters have been asking for this for a month.

 

[HairyO]

They are key members of the football sub committee that report to the board on football matters.
How can they not be?

I hate Kennett as much as the next guy but this was a decision driven by the football dept, the board and then ultimately the players and Clarko himself to end it this week.

You’ve wedded yourself to a ‘side’, without understanding the full picture.

Reeves got a 5 year contract. What did these 2 guys get offered ?

 

[Scotland]

How much longer is Kennett El Presidente? Can he go full Putin and just keep putting his name in the ring or is that not allowed?

 

[HairyO]

How much longer is Kennett El Presidente? Can he go full Putin and just keep putting his name in the ring or is that not allowed?

He doesnt even run. I think its been about 15 years since members got a vote.