News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Hawk1986]

Hodge reveals a bit more…

Round 12 - Hawthorn Investigation and news of the week (03.06.23) - Crunch Time

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pca.st

The inconsistent use of the baseline facts/timelines annoys me across all the conversations. Two points in this audio as an example;

1. Hodge said we sat on the report for a “long time”. The below is the timeline from the HS a few weeks back, which certainly doesn’t suggest we did (unless we were getting updates between May and Sept, and if that’s what he is referring to, he should be specific)



2. Whately saying we just lobbed it on the AFL and should have told the players that may happen when (1) That’s the AFL rules (2) was a recommendation in the report

 

[brad sue well]

Your commitment to the principle of guilty until proven innocent is commendable. You and Robespierre would have been great mates.

When you have heard these things first hand, it stays with you. Make a judgement of me, but it was believable. There was nothing to gain in telling me, years ago. Marrying public knowledge that I had as a close follower of HFC and what I was told would have been a genius of a story if fabricated.

*thanks for the compliment! He earned the nickname "the incorruptible" for his adherence to strict moral values.

 

[m0zza]

Is that the same Andrew Newbold that sits on the AFL Commission.....hmmmmm.......conflict of interest AFL........

Yes
I am amazed that there has been literally no mention of this

 

[Alite]

All that the clubs do for the players is for their benefit. If you get a job at Woolworths they aren't going to organise for you to live with one of the General Managers, won't give you a mentor, won't help you with drug and alcohol advice, won't pick you up at the airport, won't fly your parents to your first game and a million other things that make clubs far more than just employers. Now that doesn't mean there shouldn't be boundaries though.

You take all that support, guidance and help away and players like Nick Daicos will probably be just fine. Some kid drafted from a regional community - no chance.

I Agree with all that you wrote with one minor change, “All that the clubs do for the players is intended for their benefit”. Might I suggest that the intention has not married up well for the complainants.

If financial control is disassociated from the assistance that you state above, the current situation is much less likely to have happened.

 

[macdaddio]

The inconsistent use of the baseline facts/timelines annoys me across all the conversations. Two points in this audio as an example;

1. Hodge said we sat on the report for a “long time”. The below is the timeline from the HS a few weeks back, which certainly doesn’t suggest we did (unless we were getting updates between May and Sept, and if that’s what he is referring to, he should be specific)

View attachment 1704624

2. Whately saying we just lobbed it on the AFL and should have told the players that may happen when (1) That’s the AFL rules (2) was a recommendation in the report

Hodge has chosen the side of his 2 past coaches.
It’s like every time he talks he just puts the blame solely on the Hawks.

 

[brad sue well]

All that the clubs do for the players is for their benefit. If you get a job at Woolworths they aren't going to organise for you to live with one of the General Managers, won't give you a mentor, won't help you with drug and alcohol advice, won't pick you up at the airport, won't fly your parents to your first game and a million other things that make clubs far more than just employers. Now that doesn't mean there shouldn't be boundaries though.

You take all that support, guidance and help away and players like Nick Daicos will probably be just fine. Some kid drafted from a regional community - no chance.

Not sure I agree with the generalisation of regional folk…

Elite sport is a massive commitment, administrators have a duty of care to support players in whatever form. AFL/PA and clubs all agree. To commit is an unbalanced life in so many ways.

 

[brad sue well]

Why? No one has come forward saying they endured similar fates.

Why is every other club upset with HFC then?

There are so many ways I could answer this… this is all I have time for.

 

[Rocket72]

Yes
I am amazed that there has been literally no mention of this

Yardie said:
Is that the same Andrew Newbold that sits on the AFL Commission.....hmmmmm.......conflict of interest AFL........
Yardie

I am shocked and not surprised at the same time, if that makes sense?

 

[seysearles]

What is clear is that four past employees of our club have been aggrieved.

Four people is enough to say that there are opportunities for our club to be better. So that these grievances cannot occur again.

What I would like to hear (if it has not yet been stated because I may have missed it) is what has the HFC done to ensure that this doesn't happen again?

What learnings have been taken from this issue?
What changes have they made?
What steps have been implemented so that it cant happen again?

Irrespective of what they were obligated to report to the AFL, I hope they have done a full internal review and made some changes and improvements.
I don't know if that has happened.

If the grievances have merit then I hope they learn but by the same token if the grievances aren’t reasonable I don’t want to pretend that they are and shuffle the deckchairs around to act like we are taking action just to satisfy the mob. This is a good opportunity to make it clear that football is a performance industry and participation in it at the highest involves some sacrifices from both the players and their partners in return for significant social and financial compensation. This really looks like being a debate about what level of discipline and structure can the coaching group exert over the playing group and what constitutes an over reach. I’m old school on this and think that the sacrifice and compromise is a part and parcel of the glory.

 

[Mercy Seat]

The inconsistent use of the baseline facts/timelines annoys me across all the conversations. Two points in this audio as an example;

1. Hodge said we sat on the report for a “long time”. The below is the timeline from the HS a few weeks back, which certainly doesn’t suggest we did (unless we were getting updates between May and Sept, and if that’s what he is referring to, he should be specific)

View attachment 1704624

2. Whately saying we just lobbed it on the AFL and should have told the players that may happen when (1) That’s the AFL rules (2) was a recommendation in the report

Yeah there is definitely speculation from obviously Hodge but also elsewhere in media that maybe this timeline isn’t entirely correct?

Hodge is pretty close to the situation, he’s part of the overall investigation and obviously super close with Clarkson and Fagan, so maybe there’s truth.

 

[seysearles]

it makes some of the people involved look like very small men.

Thats an incredibly heightest thing to say. Disgusting!

 

[Alite]

I don’t have an answer for three accused to continue working. At best I am very uncomfortable. All three are in charge of the same situations they were in at HFC, Burt doing it at a school. All three need to work on their cultural awareness and until they do, are a risk. It is their livelihoods, can they sit out of employment for years this may take to resolve? Probably not. Generally, it isn’t a conflicted position for this HFC issue to remain although two North delistings were dodgy, yes, two.

Newbold remains on the commission, I believe an unpaid. WTF is going on when he remains in a position where he will judge on an HFC penalty. If he is left out of these decisions, the commission still have him as a formal colleague. It shows the disregard for the commission for the whole process, ever since the “Hawthorn thing lobbed” (Goyder). He has done extremely well to avoid the scrutiny that will inevitably come his way. The guy is loaded, it ain’t for money. I hope the soon to step down Prof Milroy (Palyku) is a quiet protest.

From the bold above:
1st: Ironically, all three are now the least likely to be a risk as all three will likely be excessively cautious and aware of such situations in the future.

2nd: A penalty on the HFC will state to all other clubs that they should bury any instances that they have had at their club. A sanction will be counter productive for everyone.

If people want change then they will have to forgo punishment ... though to think that the three and the HFC have not already been punished is not accurate.

 

[mookieb]

Not sure I agree with the generalisation of regional folk…

Elite sport is a massive commitment, administrators have a duty of care to support players in whatever form. AFL/PA and clubs all agree. To commit is an unbalanced life in so many ways.

I imagine that cultural sensitivity would play into the fact that different groups would require different amounts of help in settling into new surroundings.

 

[Rocket72]

Yeah there is definitely speculation from obviously Hodge but also elsewhere in media that maybe this timeline isn’t entirely correct?

Hodge is pretty close to the situation, he’s part of the overall investigation and obviously super close with Clarkson and Fagan, so maybe there’s truth.

What do you think he means by 'sat on the report'? Is he claiming that we had the final version earlier than we claim?

 

[Rocket72]

I imagine that cultural sensitivity would play into the fact that different groups would require different amounts of help in settling into new surroundings.

Makes you wonder what they look for in potential new recruits. Ability to adapt to change?

 

[The hands of stone]

Hodge has chosen the side of his 2 past coaches.
It’s like every time he talks he just puts the blame solely on the Hawks.

Hodge/Lewis are a fascinating study on the relationship and bond that is created between coach and player.

Hodge from ball one backs the coaches to the clubs detriment in most cases.
I have found his comments interesting , but his default is back the coach and he really cannot articulate why .

Lewis is even more interesting . Clarko stamps his papers pretty much , overlooks him as captain.
In the media he is then critical of Clarko's gameplan and failure to rebuild.
Yet in this ......backs the coach .

Whately was 100% on the club , then has Malcolm Speed on .....does a 180 and now is in the ' yes be angry at HFC ' but they havent done anything to be punished .

All totally seperate to the issues at hand but a seperate fascinating look at the power of a coach over player

 

[Rocket72]

2nd: A penalty on the HFC will state to all other clubs that they should bury any instances that they have had at their club. A sanction will be counter productive for everyone.

If people want change then they will have to forgo punishment ... Though to think that the three and the HFC have not been punished already is not accurate.

I think it might give pause. Collingwood experienced mostly positive outcomes from their review so there's counter data out there.

 

[seysearles]

I imagine that cultural sensitivity would play into the fact that different groups would require different amounts of help in settling into new surroundings.

The funny thing is that when people call for cultural sensitivity they’re fundamentally calling for people of different ethnic groups to be treated differently to everyone else. Am I the only one that sees the irony in that?

 

[Mercy Seat]

What do you think he means by 'sat on the report'? Is he claiming that we had the final version earlier than we claim?

Not sure details, he just said re hawthorn ‘they held onto it for a long time is what I’ve been told’. When quizzed by Edmund he emphasised that we held onto it for a ‘long time’ and that’s why it leaked.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

The funny thing is that when people call for cultural sensitivity they’re fundamentally calling for people of different ethnic groups to be treated differently to everyone else. Am I the only one that sees the irony in that?

Treat everyone as you want to be treated yourself, except for them, them, and them

 

[Rocket72]

The funny thing is that when people call for cultural sensitivity they’re fundamentally calling for people of different ethnic groups to be treated differently to everyone else. Am I the only one that sees the irony in that?

We might be about the same age, yes, I do see the irony. I grew up with the universal declaration of human rights on my wall, with the staunch view that everyone is equal. A more modern view retains all that, with the nuance that people have different backgrounds, preferences and might respond better to different treatment. Others can probably say it better, just my quick thoughts.

 

[Rocket72]

Not sure details, he just said re hawthorn ‘they held onto it for a long time is what I’ve been told’. When quizzed by Edmund he emphasised that we held onto it for a ‘long time’ and that’s why it leaked.

Thanks, I missed the bold bit which is important. We will never have absolute clarity on some of this stuff.

 

[brad sue well]

Makes you wonder what they look for in potential new recruits. Ability to adapt to change?

Niall wrote an article on this were a GP? of all people found private schools dominate the draft (although they can tend to poach public kids… C McDonald?).

I think this is a factor, clubs need to be realistic of their capabilities. Juniors would be far less likely to perform and attract attention if their social situations were a big, big hindrance?

Are recruiters themselves equipped to assess this very specific area that is essentially not football.

 

[Roby]

If the grievances have merit then I hope they learn but by the same token if the grievances aren’t reasonable I don’t want to pretend that they are and shuffle the deckchairs around to act like we are taking action just to satisfy the mob. This is a good opportunity to make it clear that football is a performance industry and participation in it at the highest involves some sacrifices from both the players and their partners in return for significant social and financial compensation. This really looks like being a debate about what level of discipline and structure can the coaching group exert over the playing group and what constitutes an over reach. I’m old school on this and think that the sacrifice and compromise is a part and parcel of the glory.

If your suggesting that people should give up their relationships and children to perform better, that is just a whole heap of codswallop.

 

[Bugs1977]

Thanks, I missed the bold bit which is important. We will never have absolute clarity on some of this stuff.

Who da faq told him this? Gil?