NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Del191229]

Wish I could like this multiple times - this is plainly evident but there is more denialism in this poster than Donald Trump's office.

What impact has it had on us? Clsrkson is starting on his contracted date.

If we're using lines from US Presidents, time for you stop being like George W Bush and rejoin the reality based community

 

[eastfreo75]

Yeah nah.

The ex players have seriously heavyweight representation.

I hope they do.

 

[Del191229]

no that is a separate issue, the article is the
but yeah its fine you can keep bitching about that on your team board, or the fourth estate board or a thread about it because its not relevant to much else

I started a separate thread on it but it got merged in here.

Time for a meeting at Chaddy food court?

 

[Laphroaig]

Jackson's article is based on interviews with families that took part in the truth telling process for the report.

An over used and increasingly misused pair of words there.

Does this mean that when the persons on the receiving end of these serious allegations are interviewed and state the allegations to be not true that they by definition must be lie telling?

Asking for a friend.

 

[sr36]

Oh man.

I've posted the link to The Age article where they invite the participants to come to them and make clear they see this as part of their remit multiple times.

I'd recommend you get up to speed on this whole thing.

It's moved a great deal since Rusty's story


I'm fine with how this is playing out for North too.

Clsrkson is starting on his contracted date.

The only impact on North was the President had to whack a a little dog yapping defamation round the chops until he scurried off with his tail between his legs

Their lawyers are talking about options. This could very well be one of the referred to options. Personally, I think they'll go the AFL route as the terms look pretty favourable.

 

[Gralin]

It is funny how nobody ever engages with the Yoo-Rook Commission stuff.

Noting it was Jack Latimore who wrote this, oh that he'd got the Egan report first. Though I reckon Egan didn't go to him because he knew Latimore wouldn't just lap it all up.

Hawthorn players urged to speak to Yoorrook truth and justice commission

The independence of the AFL racism probe into Hawthorn has come under question as the royal commission-style Yoorrook inquiry invites sports people to tell their stories.

www.theage.com.au

What does this even mean?

 

[Maddo11]

What does this even mean?

Now that he's established "doubt" over Jackson's credibility, he's slowly expanding it to Egan and the review so that he can call that premature/ half baked/ whatever to try and paint that poorly as well.

 

[ferball]

no that is a separate issue, the article is the article

it was published and from then on he's been attacked by members of the AFL community

but yeah its fine you can keep bitching about that on your team board, or the fourth estate board or a thread about it because its not relevant to much else

I already mentioned the one line in the article that I think has caused this situation to explode. I dunno about how clever it was to include that line and I hope its a direct quote.

There was a thread to discuss the other issue. A couple of us were only posting in it and had left this thread well alone. Then it got merged with this one so obviously we have to post in here if we want to discuss it. So this is the thread we're expected to talk about it in and now you want me to be quiet about it?

Both the things I've mentioned in this post - the tweet and the alleged quote about Clarkson making someone "Kill their kid" are pretty full on uses of language. Its not what I'd call reporting. Its inflamatory as ****. Everything else .. basically the same accusations without that line ... I don't have a problem with really. But that sticks out.

Simply by including that line Jackson's made it hard for any mediation (the recommended outcome according to Egan) to work.

Unless Ian specifically wanted that said in the article then as far as I'm concerned its sus as.

If its an invented quote then its even worse.

After the tweet I'm more inclined to assume he's made it up for effect.

 

[Maddo11]

Unless Ian specifically wanted that said in the article then as far as I'm concerned its sus as.

If its an invented quote then its even worse.

After the tweet I'm more inclined to assume he's made it up for effect.

Go on, say the line, you know you want to

Its in the public interest to know whether an employer asked/demanded an employee to terminate a pregnancy, to not report it or to report it inaccurately would be worse as a journo.

 

[Del191229]

Their lawyers are talking about options. This could very well be one of the referred to options. Personally, I think they'll go the AFL route as the terms look pretty favourable.

I hope so but I reckon Judy Courtin wants to play this one on media street.

 

[Del191229]

What does this even mean?

It means Jack Latimore wouldn't have just accepted it all without question and without running a proper journalistic process.

That's what he did with this excellent piece on Senator Lidia Thorpe recently.

Lidia Thorpe, the Greens senator who annoys the establishment

Read Indigenous affairs reporter Jack Latimore’s earlier profile of Lidia Thorpe as she announces her split from the Greens.

www.theage.com.au

Note how it includes several voices, including those who offer very different perspectives, something Jackson didn't.

 

[sr36]

I hope so but I reckon Judy Courtin wants to play this one on media street.

She's trying to negotiate terms through the media, but I'm pretty confident that the inquiry itself will be confidential - Except for the findings.

 

[Del191229]

She's trying to negotiate terms through the media, but I'm pretty confident that the inquiry itself will be confidential - Except for the findings.

The terms of the AFL inquiry aren't changing now due to her media pressure.

I also doubt the Yoo-Rook Commission are going to pay too much heed to another white lady with a saviour complex.

They will decide anything on their terms, as it right, and how this always should have been handled

 

[sr36]

The terms of the AFL inquiry aren't changing now due to her media pressure.

I also doubt the Yoo-Rook Commission are going to pay too much heed to another white lady with a saviour complex.

They will decide anything on their terms, as it right, and how this always should have been handled

Why are you calling her a "white lady with a saviour complex"?

She's a lawyer who has been employed by her clients to represent them. Why are you racialising her work and painting her with a patronising brush?

 

[Maddo11]

The terms of the AFL inquiry aren't changing now due to her media pressure.

I also doubt the Yoo-Rook Commission are going to pay too much heed to another white lady with a saviour complex.

They will decide anything on their terms, as it right, and how this always should have been handled

Oh but anyone who attacks Dr Sonja Hood, with her doctorate in population health is a cowboy journo with an agenda lol

 

[Del191229]

Why are you calling her a "white lady with a saviour complex"?

She's a lawyer who has been employed by her clients to represent them. Why are you racialising her work and painting her with a patronising brush?

She is a white lady and she does love taking on these cases where she can represent the poor and marginalised against big evil institutions.

I think her comparing the AFL with the Catholic Church covering up paedophilia was stomach churning, but I know she did good work on CSA previously.

She's very smart, but she's still fundamentally a do-gooder type.

The world needs them.

 

[Stars align]

Is truth telling and yarn telling one and the same?

 

[sr36]

She is a white lady and she does love taking on these cases where she can represent the poor and marginalised against big evil institutions.

I think her comparing the AFL with the Catholic Church covering up paedophilia was stomach churning, but I know she did good work on CSA previously.

She's very smart, but she's still fundamentally a do-gooder type.

The world needs them.

Can you actually comment on this story without making grubby insinuations against someone who may stand in the way of the messiah raising your team out of the trough?

It's akin to someone saying: Well Clarko is white with a reputation for being ruthless and controlling ... hmmmm....

 

[Saucery]

I agree that the aggrieved on both sides have the right not to participate, especially given the AFL's track record and unseemly rush to get this done.

I'm not expecting the AFL to do anything different from their other cover-up investigations like into Melbourne tanking, which apparently didn't happen even though they got fined $500,000 and two people lost their jobs. Or Essendon where they fought tooth and nail to make it go away, finally having to be brought to heal by WADA.

I think the AFL investigation should go ahead, but there should be no expectation that anyone involved attend. I don't believe the time allowed will bring about any rigours, authentic judgements that will put matters to rest and that this and the original Hawthorne investigation will just end up as foot notes in other larger, wider, more in-depth investigations; issued by other bodies with true 'independence' from the league.

Then of course there's the inevitable civil action likely from both sides, though a pay out with non disclosure clauses will not clear the air around Fagan and Clarkson; even if it lets Gil and the AFL move on.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

They should have legal representation; they should have had it from the start. And of course they can talk to anyone they want, but talking to a journalist and naming names has consequences. Their allegations were always going to be challenged by the coaches and would have to be tested somewhere or other. If they don't want to be involved in the AFL inquiry that is fair enough. But to seemingly not have an alternative in mind before going public was reckless. What has happened since the article came out has been entirely predictable, yet they seem unprepared for it.

Your right, these traumatised players from traditional indigenous communities, probably without much coin, should have planned ahead and strolled down to the local lawyer, who charges in ten minute intervals, to advise them on the best course of action. While they were at it, they also should have employed a top line PR firm do they can ‘get ahead’ of it.

Do you seriously stop for even one second and try to view the player’s perspectives not from what you would do if you were in their shoes based on your life experiences, but what is reasonable for them to do based on their life experiences?

Of course they are going to make mistakes, the systems aren’t designed for them and they are traumatised. Maybe pause for one second though, and instead of blaming the players and feeling sorry for accused or your football team, think about how maybe, just maybe, the coaches and the AFL system brought this situation onto themselves.

I get it sucks to be a North supporter. North did nothing wrong in hiring Clarkson. But this has happened, and the far, far bigger issue is what has allegedly happened to these players and their families, and what may have happened more broadly across the league.

Take your blinders off. Kangaroos are meant to have good peripheral vision.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I dont expect to get to the bottom of these claims & the allegations will certainly stick.

Kids robbed of their AFL dream & looking to blame others for not making the grade, might have an axe to grind. I've not seen anyone admit they werent good enough.

Its certainly not new that clubs try to lead recruits away from activities/people who might contribute to a player not reaching the players potential.

Justice isnt likely for any of the parties.

I am not aware of anyone saying the players were unfairly delisted based their playing ability. Can you point me towards where this was referenced?

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Go on, say the line, you know you want to

Its in the public interest to know whether an employer asked/demanded an employee to terminate a pregnancy, to not report it or to report it inaccurately would be worse as a journo.

Yeah, but… my football team!!

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

It means Jack Latimore wouldn't have just accepted it all without question and without running a proper journalistic process.

That's what he did with this excellent piece on Senator Lidia Thorpe recently.

Lidia Thorpe, the Greens senator who annoys the establishment

Read Indigenous affairs reporter Jack Latimore’s earlier profile of Lidia Thorpe as she announces her split from the Greens.

www.theage.com.au

Note how it includes several voices, including those who offer very different perspectives, something Jackson didn't.

Seriously, we have to go through this again? It had been explained multiple times that Jackson gave several parties and clubs an opportunity to respond, including via email and phone and offering to extend the publication timeframe. None responded.

You have made some good contributions to this thread, but you are losing the plot on Jackson. He said something mean about your club on twitter - probably after copping a barrage of bs from all angles since the report. What Jackson said on Twitter wasn’t okay. Even he accepted that and apologised. But this doesn’t mean his initial reporting wasn’t solid and there is zero basis to suggest otherwise. His article is entirey consistent with the Egan review. The players are clearly comfortable that it captured their views.

It’s time to move on from Jackson. Create a seperate thread to unpack the mean things he said on twitter if you like, but it has nothing to do with the racism inquiry and what the players allegedly experienced.

 

[perplexed]

Your right, these traumatised players from traditional indigenous communities, probably without not much coin, should have planned ahead and strolled down to the local lawyer, who charges in ten minute intervals, to advise them on the best course of action. While they were at it, they also should have employed a top line PR firm do they can ‘get ahead’ of it.

Do you seriously stop for even one second and try to view the player’s perspectives not from what you would do if you were in their shoes based on your life experiences, but what is reasonable for them to do based on their life experiences?

Of course they are going to make mistakes, the systems aren’t designed for them and they are traumatised. Maybe pause for one second though, and instead of blaming the players and feeling sorry for accused or your football team, think about how maybe, just maybe, the coaches and the AFL system brought this situation onto themselves.

I get it sucks to be a North supporter. North did nothing wrong in hiring Clarkson. But this has happened, and the far, far bigger issue is what has allegedly happened to these players and their families, and what may have happened more broadly across the league.

Take your blinders off. Kangaroos are meant to have good peripheral vision.

So smug. They have access to any number of free legal services to assist them with claims of this type, they chose the media route. Their choice. You were previously falsely suggesting I was denying the players agency and they had a right to their own choices. Now you are criticising me for not understanding their life experiences and how this excuses their mistakes. Who is denying them agency now?

Yes, I'm a North supporter and I want this resolved. It seems to be only North supporters proposing avenues for resolution in this thread. Many others are simply trolling or offering empathy and debate but no route to a just outcome. The players have serious grievances which need to be dealt with by a proper and respected body. We all know the AFL are too compromised to run the investigation and manage its findings. But if the players don't take this elsewhere, that's what they'll get.

 

[King Huskii]

The thing that gets me about this whole situation is

1. Players remain anonymous
2. Players go to the ABC and the ABC create a picture that Clarkson and Fagan are guilty
3. Even if Clarkson and Fagan are completely innocent of all allegations it will permanently staine their reputation.

I personally don't know who is or isn't guilty and I feel that it's been trial by media. If Clarkson isn't guilty then he may chose to go after people making false allegations.

This could go for a long time.