Hayden named "Best Batsman of Past Decade" by Wisden.

[usalion]

Well done, Matty
CHAMPION
Wisden- the Bible of Cricket (and I'm agnostic- so no cracks about Christian crackpots, please)- the designation is there to stay

 

[hirthy]

Well deserved Haydos!! Has changed the game in my opinion with his awesome attacking. Also managed to get himself out of a slump recently. What a champion!

 

[Calcium Man]

i agree Tendulkar, Dravid, Lara, Kallis and Ponting all better to name a few

Better Batsman yes!! but better consitently no!!

Tendulkar was brilliant in the 90's but has trailed ofk recently, probaly due to injury

Lara certainly struggled through out the middle of his career, it was tough to find time to play cricket in between dating models!!

Dravid's form has really only been great since 01-02

Ponting is very similar to Dravid, was alright in the 90's but since 01-02. Has been the best batsman in the world for the last 2 years

Kallis is a good solid batsman but is overrated for his bowling ability, his influence on the game as an all rounder is unsurpassed (freddie is catching though) but it has people over rating his batting!!! Especially considering all the above batsman have multiple double and triple centuries, Kallis doesnt have one!!

Haydos has been brilliant since 2001 and 5 years of 1000+ plus runs shows consitency and his influence on Australia's dominence on the game in those years!!

 

[Heisenberg_]

Better Batsman yes!! but better consitently no!!

Tendulkar was brilliant in the 90's but has trailed ofk recently, probaly due to injury

Lara certainly struggled through out the middle of his career, it was tough to find time to play cricket in between dating models!!

Dravid's form has really only been great since 01-02

Ponting is very similar to Dravid, was alright in the 90's but since 01-02. Has been the best batsman in the world for the last 2 years

Kallis is a good solid batsman but is overrated for his bowling ability, his influence on the game as an all rounder is unsurpassed (freddie is catching though) but it has people over rating his batting!!! Especially considering all the above batsman have multiple double and triple centuries, Kallis doesnt have one!!

Haydos has been brilliant since 2001 and 5 years of 1000+ plus runs shows consitency and his influence on Australia's dominence on the game in those years!!

Kallis averages about 55 with the bat, definatly not over rated and i hate South Africa

 

[johnnyhoward]

Dravid's form has really only been great since 01-02

So has Hayden's...

 

[The Passenger]

It's pretty hard to split Hayden, Ponting, S. Waugh, Kallis, Tendulkar, Dravid and Lara over the past 10 years IMO.

Anyone of them have a case for being number 1.

Might expand later.......not sure if i can be bothered.

 

[Bentleigh]

Haydos 2001 onwards = machine

1994  1  2  0  0  0  15  20  10.00  1  0  
1996  1  2  0  0  0  5  5  2.50  2  0  
1997  5  8  0  0  1  125  236  29.50  5  0  
2000  5  8  0  2  0  69  267  33.38  6  0  
[B]2001[/B]  14  25  3  5  5  203  [B]1391  63.23[/B]  11  0  
[B]2002[/B]  11  17  1  3  6  197  [B]1160  72.50[/B]  10  0  
[B]2003[/B]  12  21  4  3  5  380  [B]1312  77.18[/B]  23  0  
[B]2004[/B]  14  27  1  6  3  132  [B]1123[/B]  [B]43.19  [/B]17  0  
[B]2005[/B]  15  29  3  4  5  138  [B]1380[/B]  [B]53.08[/B]  22  0  
[B]2006[/B]  1  2  0  1  0  90  [B]94[/B]  [B]47.00[/B]  0

Champion.

 

[POBT]

The method of calculating this is flawed and, even as a huge Hayden admirer, I can't agree with the result. IMO, Tendulkar is the best batsman over the past 10 years, without question.

One of the best tests of a batsman is how he performs overseas. I haven't limited it to the last ten years but here's how the top players have performed away from home....

Hayden avg 43
Kallis avg 54
Tendulkar avg 55
Lara avg 47
Ponting avg 49
Dravid avg 64

 

[F/D]

Averaging 43 overseas?


Biggest FTB ever.

 

[manmountain]

And yet when the heat was on, the good bowlers bowling to Hayden, he failed badly.

Like at the SCG test when Lee bowled 50 balls to Kallis, off which he scored 2 runs - at a time when they were trying to get a move on to set a reasonable target?

Kallis bats for Kallis and no one else, and in any event, has not dominated the past 5 years the way Hayden has. Hayden has dominated every attack in the world bar England in last year's Ashes, and even then he managed a ton, aside from which he had dominated England in previous encounters anyway.

Past decade is a bit rich, given that it takes in a few years where Tendulkar and Lara were at their peak, but over the last five years, Hayden has been peerless IMHO.

 

[F/D]

Like at the SCG test when Lee bowled 50 balls to Kallis, off which he scored 2 runs - at a time when they were trying to get a move on to set a reasonable target?

Kallis bats for Kallis and no one else, and in any event, has not dominated the past 5 years the way Hayden has. Hayden has dominated every attack in the world bar England in last year's Ashes, and even then he managed a ton, aside from which he had dominated England in previous encounters anyway.

Past decade is a bit rich, given that it takes in a few years where Tendulkar and Lara were at their peak, but over the last five years, Hayden has been peerless IMHO.

Maybe, just maybe, he couldnt move his elbow and didnt play after that? What? injuries are excuses? atleast he played unlike that soft captain of yours, funny how he made runs too


Hayden averages 43 away from his home, that is pathetic.

Kallis averages 60 odd at home and 55 away, thats very good.

He also has roughly the same SR as Dravid, why no critisizes for him?


Kallis >> Hayden.

 

[kaysee]

...
Hayden averages 43 away from his home, that is pathetic.

Kallis averages 60 odd at home and 55 away, thats very good.

He also has roughly the same SR as Dravid, why no critisizes for him?


Kallis >> Hayden.

Over what time period are those averages??? The last 10 years.

For the record the article stated they used purely statistics which show Hayden is a far more consistant batsman.

For exmaple how many times has Kallis or Tendulker failed (<20 runs)? Hayden very rarely fails... infact is Ashes form slump is the only one he has had

 

[F/D]

Over what time period are those averages??? The last 10 years.

For the record the article stated they used purely statistics which show Hayden is a far more consistant batsman.

For exmaple how many times has Kallis or Tendulker failed (<20 runs)? Hayden very rarely fails... infact is Ashes form slump is the only one he has had

10 years is a better indication than 5 years.

 

[Bennycoff]

Hayden was well deserving.

Don't think Tendulkar has done a great deal for a long time now due to injuries however he;s just not as good currently.

Hayden is a gun! Better than Kallis IMO. If you needed someone to win you a match on the last day Hayden would be more likely to then Kallis.

Ponting, Kallis, Lara all awesome bats however Hayden has been the most consistent in the past five seasons perhaps and well Dravid is too slow even though hes a good bat.

 

[F/D]

Hayden was well deserving.

Don't think Tendulkar has done a great deal for a long time now due to injuries however he;s just not as good currently.

Hayden is a gun! Better than Kallis IMO. If you needed someone to win you a match on the last day Hayden would be more likely to then Kallis.

Ponting, Kallis, Lara all awesome bats however Hayden has been the most consistent in the past five seasons perhaps and well Dravid is too slow even though hes a good bat.

Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid >>> Hayden.


Dont look at 5 years, look at their whole careers.

 

[crownie]

I would choose those 5 ahead of Haydos if I were picking a team, however I reckon he has them all licked for consistency.

how many of those 5 have opened the batting all of their test careers?

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Anyone seen the criterium used to determine the award?

Very, er... interesting.

Exactly - it's not opinion based or anything, it's purely statistics.

Therefore, whether you agree with it or not, while they use that formula it isn't wrong.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Averages bloat with not outs.

If they averaged a batsman based simply on runs/innings batted, you'd have far different results. Tendulkar and Steve Waugh for instance have far higher averages because of their not outs, and would probably be lower compared to players like Lara who have far fewer not outs.

Averages done this way is really the only way to determine who is better given all else. You could perhaps put a difficulty factor to runs scored against certain opposition. For instance, runs scored against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, New Zealand at home would be at 1, while runs scored against India in India, England in England, SA in SA, would be worth higher.

So you get averages vs each country, home and away, and multiply by difficulty factor, and you'd get a clearer picture.

 

[crownie]

Averages bloat with not outs.

If they averaged a batsman based simply on runs/innings batted, you'd have far different results. Tendulkar and Steve Waugh for instance have far higher averages because of their not outs, and would probably be lower compared to players like Lara who have far fewer not outs.

Averages done this way is really the only way to determine who is better given all else. You could perhaps put a difficulty factor to runs scored against certain opposition. For instance, runs scored against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, New Zealand at home would be at 1, while runs scored against India in India, England in England, SA in SA, would be worth higher.

So you get averages vs each country, home and away, and multiply by difficulty factor, and you'd get a clearer picture.

i just dont see how people on this board can use statistics and nothing else to make up their mind.

averages dont show how many times a batsman gets droped or in what situation he has made the runs and how it effects the team.

also showing averages against different countries can be misleading as not to sure but didnt the both times Warne played in India he was coming back or on an injury cloud.

 

[Exe Gesis]

i just dont see how people on this board can use statistics and nothing else to make up their mind.

averages dont show how many times a batsman gets droped or in what situation he has made the runs and how it effects the team.

also showing averages against different countries can be misleading as not to sure but didnt the both times Warne played in India he was coming back or on an injury cloud.

You make good points. I guess why statistics are so relied upon is that statistics is all that spectators, commentators, and the players have to compare themselves and their achievments. I guess to back up your post, when Richie Benaud, Ian Botham, or Gary Sobers, etc, come out and say things about the best players they have seen, the best teams they have seen, the best players/teams they've played against/with....and they have seen/played players/teams years and years ago that only some of us have seen....then we should respect their opinion much more and really genuinely try to consider what they say if it goes against what WE think is right about past players we have scant vision of.

 

[crownie]

You make good points. I guess why statistics are so relied upon is that statistics is all that spectators, commentators, and the players have to compare themselves and their achievments. I guess to back up your post, when Richie Benaud, Ian Botham, or Gary Sobers, etc, come out and say things about the best players they have seen, the best teams they have seen, the best players/teams they've played against/with....and they have seen/played players/teams years and years ago that only some of us have seen....then we should respect their opinion much more and really genuinely try to consider what they say if it goes against what WE think is right about past players we have scant vision of.

agreed, if one batsman averages 50 in his career and another averages 55. i dont think you can split that to say the guy averaging 55 must of been the better player.

also cricket these days tends to be more batting friendly then it was say 20 years ago.

 

[dan warna]

congrats to haydo's.

Its not his fault if Wisden selected him, I applaud him on an outstanding career and I hope he returns to his imperious best and tears the boks a new one!

 

[POBT]

Averages bloat with not outs.

If they averaged a batsman based simply on runs/innings batted, you'd have far different results. Tendulkar and Steve Waugh for instance have far higher averages because of their not outs, and would probably be lower compared to players like Lara who have far fewer not outs.

I take your point but my impression is that Lara has had quite a few not outs. Comes from being the only decent batsman in the side - he's scored a few not out double hundreds as well as his 400n.o. - these inflate the average.

 

[Exe Gesis]

I take your point but my impression is that Lara has had quite a few not outs. Comes from being the only decent batsman in the side - he's scored a few not out double hundreds as well as his 400n.o. - these inflate the average.

Lara has only had 6 not outs his whole test career. Overall, as a test average this would have a hugely reduced effect compared with say Steve Waugh who has had 46 not outs and a bloated average.

Here are some comparisons....

Player		Inn		NO	Runs		Current Ave	Real Ave

Lara		214		6	11,204		53.86		52.36
Tendulkar	208		22	10,430		56.07		50.14
Kallis		161		28	7,613		57.24		47.29
S Waugh	        260		46	10,927		51.06	        42.03
Hayden		141		12	6,988		54.17		49.56
Gilchrist	116		18	4,918		50.18		42.40
Viv Richards	182		12	8,540		50.23		46.92
Bradman	         80		10	6,996		99.94	        87.45

 

[The Passenger]

Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid >>> Hayden.


Dont look at 5 years, look at their whole careers.

but the thread is about who has performed best over the last 10 years??

Therefore you really need to exclude what happened in Hayden's early years.


As I said earlier It's pretty hard to single any of Hayden, Ponting, S. Waugh, Gilchrist, Lara, Kallis, Tendulkar or Dravid above the other over the past 10 years.

Hayden's average of 43 overseas is still actually pretty solid. To call it pathetic is just totally ignorant.

Personally, I would've probably had Tendulkar on top from Ponting with Hayden at 3.

Couldn't, however, have disagreed with any of them if they were given the honour.

When it comes to downright intimidation of the opposition there is no one around now that matches Hayden. He's big (6'4), strong, and can just bludgeon a bowler out of the attack, and he does it so consistently and spectucularly. Not even Gilly does it as often.

When it comes to skill and guile and bringing their team back from the brink and ability to carry their own team then B. Lara is the number 1 man in that category.

For overall talent Tendulkar would be number 1....

For toughness you've got S. Waugh...

It's really just to hard to single any of those 8 above the other.