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News Heavy training phase

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wish it would stay in house to be honest. It's like there is greater expectations placed on them now but truth be told, it is nothing out of the ordinary and you can be certain many of the current top 8 clubs have, or are currently going through their very own mid year training programs as we speak.
Who can manage their injury load from now until late August is the real issue as you'd hate to be doing the training load and then copping crucial injuries to key personnel along the way.
Port Adelaide are an example of this you would suspect.
 

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wish it would stay in house to be honest. It's like there is greater expectations placed on them now but truth be told, it is nothing out of the ordinary and you can be certain many of the current top 8 clubs have, or are currently going through their very own mid year training programs as we speak.
Who can manage their injury load from now until late August is the real issue as you'd hate to be doing the training load and then copping crucial injuries to key personnel along the way.
Port Adelaide are an example of this you would suspect.

Ok what do you know about Ports training phase ? Are they in the middle of a hard phase now ?
 
I'd be more impressed if they came up with a plan to rotate every player over the age of 25 for at least one additional week for the rest of the season. Given that we went into a game against an underwhelming Western Bulldogs forward line with Lonergan, Taylor, Rivers, Mackie and Enright, I'd say that's not on the agenda. And given the depth of our squad in every position currently, besides key forward (where we have options, but just nothing anywhere near what Hawkins has been providing), we should be putting some faith in the younger players, who are currently being starved of opportunities. About time the match committee grew a set between them.
 
Ok what do you know about Ports training phase ? Are they in the middle of a hard phase now ?
3 losses out of the last 4 games. They aren't doing it properly if they are. Top sides usually grind out most of their games (the odd loss) during the mid season heavy training period. And the biggest impact is slow starts, not fade outs. Usually I've noticed.
 
Bomber said on 360 tonight he had heard that Port were going thru heavy training phase and implied perhaps that helped the Bombers on the day. So I suspect all clubs do this heavy training phase at sometime in the year. And it obviously takes a bit of the edge of the team's performance if Bomber's comment is anything to go by.
 
I'd be very surprised if any clubs going through a heavy training phase did theirs too much differently to any other club. Start too early or finish too late and the players will either not be peaking for finals or they'll be still fatigued during finals.

There will be differences between clubs as they all search for the magic formula (no- not Dank's magic formula!!) - eg differences in exactly what their extra load entails from week to week or player to player, or how they rotate that load through the players so the whole team isn't flat at the same time. And each club will experiment a bit and tweak what they tried the previous year, in order to gain an advantage over their opponents.
 
The training load thing is clearly not myth, and as Stokesy put it, the science behind it is to push harder instead of doing recovery only to increase the limits to which players can load themselves and push themselves later on - the mysterious peaking….

Every club does it but clearly fathers not disclose when it happens. You would think the results of it at the time are more present in older teams where players are looking more for recovery than anything else. The effects, well, tell you in September…

Go Catters
 

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The training load thing is clearly not myth, and as Stokesy put it, the science behind it is to push harder instead of doing recovery only to increase the limits to which players can load themselves and push themselves later on - the mysterious peaking….

Every club does it but clearly fathers not disclose when it happens. You would think the results of it at the time are more present in older teams where players are looking more for recovery than anything else. The effects, well, tell you in September…

Go Catters
We must have forgotten to do it the last two years then... :D
 
I'd be more impressed if they came up with a plan to rotate every player over the age of 25 for at least one additional week for the rest of the season. Given that we went into a game against an underwhelming Western Bulldogs forward line with Lonergan, Taylor, Rivers, Mackie and Enright, I'd say that's not on the agenda. And given the depth of our squad in every position currently, besides key forward (where we have options, but just nothing anywhere near what Hawkins has been providing), we should be putting some faith in the younger players, who are currently being starved of opportunities. About time the match committee grew a set between them.
I'd say the fact we have an extra bye coming up in the coming weeks has something to do with not resting players as much this year.
 
I'd say the fact we have an extra bye coming up in the coming weeks has something to do with not resting players as much this year.

We had two byes in 2011, the last year that we clearly and constantly rotated players, almost on a weekly basis. We rested veterans far more in 2011, than we did in the past two years, even though the bye weeks fell perfectly for us that year. And I don't really see why two byes/one bye is that important. Every team is in the same boat. Since we've got so many crucial older players, I'd argue that the amount of rest we'd like to get into our players should be relative to our competitors in 2014, not what we had in 2013 and before. We want our players to be fresher/healthier than Fremantle's, Sydney's and Hawthorn's.
 
We had two byes in 2011, the last year that we clearly and constantly rotated players, almost on a weekly basis. We rested veterans far more in 2011, than we did in the past two years, even though the bye weeks fell perfectly for us that year. And I don't really see why two byes/one bye is that important. Every team is in the same boat. Since we've got so many crucial older players, I'd argue that the amount of rest we'd like to get into our players should be relative to our competitors in 2014, not what we had in 2013 and before. We want our players to be fresher/healthier than Fremantle's, Sydney's and Hawthorn's.
Good points. But I think in 2011 we also displayed we were a much more dominant side, giving us more freedom in the ability to rest players. 2012, 13 & 14 not so dominant, so we probably haven't had quite the same freedom to do that. Particularly this year, we are only really scraping over the line against mediocre sides, so resting senior guys is maybe seen as too risky? We can't afford to lose a game because that is basically top 4 gone.

I'd like to see more rotations as well, it's beneficial for players at both extremes of the age bracket - more rest for the senior guys to get their bodies right and a chance for the young guys to get some experience and show what they've got, but given our inability to comfortable put sides away we don't have that luxury I guess.

Wasn't suggesting that it was right, just that it may be the way they are looking at it. The next fortnight is as good a time as we will see to rest some guys, so that might tell us some more.
 
Good points. But I think in 2011 we also displayed we were a much more dominant side, giving us more freedom in the ability to rest players. 2012, 13 & 14 not so dominant, so we probably haven't had quite the same freedom to do that.
+ we had greater depth in 2011
 

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Good points. But I think in 2011 we also displayed we were a much more dominant side, giving us more freedom in the ability to rest players. 2012, 13 & 14 not so dominant, so we probably haven't had quite the same freedom to do that. Particularly this year, we are only really scraping over the line against mediocre sides, so resting senior guys is maybe seen as too risky? We can't afford to lose a game because that is basically top 4 gone.

So be it. Maybe then, they'd see categorically which ones are up to it and which ones aren't, rather than carrying about a dozen fringe players on the list for a year or two more than is justified, because they might come good. We didn't give enough opportunities to several younger players in 2013 and we're doing the same thing in 2014. At some point, the match committee has to do something to justify all those words we've been hearing for several years about building a team that's going to be competitive 'now and five years from now'. Because it's not apparent how their week to week selections reflect this. But then they get rid of proven quality AFL players at the end of the season and keep the guys who haven't proven anything because they don't get games. And continue to play those guys in the VFL. It makes no sense whatsoever.

You can easily target lines where a player or two could be rotated, especially in the three-game Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, GWS block. Against the Bulldogs, it was the perfect chance to rest one (even two) of our veteran defenders and bring in one of Brown/Hamling and perhaps Thurlow. It was a shocking day for forwards in the first place and the Bulldogs were going in with three forwards who had played a combined nine games. This week, it could again be a defender, or, with Cross out for Melbourne, possibly a midfielder. At some stage, we should probably rest Hawkins as well, either with one of our defenders going forward for the game and Brown going to defence, or Brown/Walker teaming up with Kersten. Should that lineup still be able to beat a team like Brisbane in Geelong in Round 23, given they are playing the likes of Darcy Gardiner and Daniel McStay in defence? Of course it should.

I'd like to see more rotations as well, it's beneficial for players at both extremes of the age bracket - more rest for the senior guys to get their bodies right and a chance for the young guys to get some experience and show what they've got, but given our inability to comfortable put sides away we don't have that luxury I guess.

Wasn't suggesting that it was right, just that it may be the way they are looking at it. The next fortnight is as good a time as we will see to rest some guys, so that might tell us some more.

Sure. It just frustrates me, because the way we're tracking at the moment this season (probably a second or third week finals exit) is another relatively successful year for Chris Scott. I don't think his job will ever be safer for the rest of his career than it is right now, unless he wins another premiership. So, if he's not going to make these bold, long-term decisions right now, how's he going to go when his job is on the line down the track and he thinks he's going to get shitcanned if he doesn't get a win? The indications are that he'll leave the kids to rot in the VFL, by and large.

It all probably gets back to the topic in this thread, too. It's like something from the Price is Right. What would be the goal for this year (regardless of who plays in the team)? To get the best possible ladder position, or to set the team up to be peaking in finals, while risking a lower ladder position? Money or the box? The heavy training load stuff suggests it's to peak in finals, but the lack of rotations suggests that it's about ladder position. It's not a consistent message, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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It all probably gets back to the topic in this thread, too. It's like something from the Price is Right. What would the goal for this year (regardless of who plays in the team)? To get the best possible ladder position, or to set the team up to be peaking in finals, while risking a lower ladder position? Money or the box? The heavy training load stuff suggests it's to peak in finals, but the lack of rotations suggests that it's about ladder position. It's not a consistent message, as far as I'm concerned.
Agree 100% with all of that, especially the bolded. They've been inconsistent with so many things. Openly admitting at various stages we were too tall yet still persisting with two No. 1 ruckmen for too long. Saying we don't play underdone players and they have to earn it - enter Billie Smedts, when you have Thurlow, Jansen, JK, Hartman, Hamling, Brown etc all showing solid consistent form in the magoos and even playing Sheringham, an absolute clogger in front of them. Honestly, I think they are confused and I don't actually blame them. As a team I think we are in quite an awkward position, we're not performing that badly that they can just say "let's go full rebuild, play kids" and our best football and talent appears good enough to possibly go all the way if we can 'click', we just can't bring it consistently. The flag is like a carrot dangling in front of us but to be a realistic chance we need to finish top 4, without any wriggle room to slip, which is blocking out the kids.

I'm with you I would rather take a little more risk and bring in some kids, it may even bring a bit of energy and enthusiasm back to the squad, especially if spots in the seniors don't feel so 'secure'.
 
Agree 100% with all of that, especially the bolded. They've been inconsistent with so many things. Openly admitting at various stages we were too tall yet still persisting with two No. 1 ruckmen for too long. Saying we don't play underdone players and they have to earn it - enter Billie Smedts, when you have Thurlow, Jansen, JK, Hartman, Hamling, Brown etc all showing solid consistent form in the magoos and even playing Sheringham, an absolute clogger in front of them. Honestly, I think they are confused and I don't actually blame them. As a team I think we are in quite an awkward position, we're not performing that badly that they can just say "let's go full rebuild, play kids" and our best football and talent appears good enough to possibly go all the way if we can 'click', we just can't bring it consistently. The flag is like a carrot dangling in front of us but to be a realistic chance we need to finish top 4, without any wriggle room to slip, which is blocking out the kids.

I'm with you I would rather take a little more risk and bring in some kids, it may even bring a bit of energy and enthusiasm back to the squad, especially if spots in the seniors don't feel so 'secure'.

That can definitely happen. Someone like Thurlow or Hamling is obviously no match for the incumbents in their nominal positions in the senior team, but to inject a bit of their energy in to the side in a relatively 'easy' game can help the team. And it can also light a fire under the veterans playing alongside them that they will have to step up that game, both in providing leadership and direction to the young bloke, as well as in a more general sense that there's no opportunity to coast, because Mackie/Enright/Lonergan/whoever isn't there.
 
That can definitely happen. Someone like Thurlow or Hamling is obviously no match for the incumbents in their nominal positions in the senior team, but to inject a bit of their energy in to the side in a relatively 'easy' game can help the team. And it can also light a fire under the veterans playing alongside them that they will have to step up that game, both in providing leadership and direction to the young bloke, as well as in a more general sense that there's no opportunity to coast, because Mackie/Enright/Lonergan/whoever isn't there.

Not to mention probably the best thing about doing that - it illustrates to say Thurlow or Hamling what the gap is between seniors and reserves and they get a better appreciation of exactly what they need to do better to stay at that level. Every minute in the senior team is golden for young and developing players. But still the mindset persists that it should be easy or instant to perform at the top level. Go through our players with less than 100 games under their belt. I'd argue with a couple of exceptions it's a linear progression with Duncan being the best; to Motlop and Christensen; and so on. It's not a coincidence.
 
I have a theory, but you’ll have to wait to the end of this long post to read it…

If this is a notional ‘best 22’ in 2014 – i.e. excluding Menzel and Vardy:

B: Enright Lonergan Rivers
HB: Mackie Taylor Kelly
C: Duncan Caddy Christensen
HF: Motlop Hawkins Stokes
F: Varcoe Kersten Bartel
R: McIntosh Johnson Selwood
Int: Guthrie GHS Murdoch Blicavs

Then that 22 has played 273 out of a possible 330 games. I.e. 57 games have been missed in the following breakdown:

Allen Christensen 12
Shane Kersten 12
Josh Caddy 8
Steven Motlop 6
Mathew Stokes 3
Steve Johnson 2
Andrew Mackie 2
Hamish McIntosh 2
Corey Enright 2
George Horlin-Smith 2
Jared Rivers 2
James Kelly 1
Travis Varcoe 1
Harry Taylor 1
Tom Lonergan 1

Or by position:

mid 34
fwd 12
def 9
ruc 2

Who has been the beneficiary of the 57?

Dawson Simpson 11
Taylor Hunt 7
Jackson Sheringham 7
Jed Bews 6
George Burbury 5
Josh Walker 4
Jesse Stringer 4
Billie Smedts 4
Mitchell W. Brown 3
Lincoln McCarthy 2
Brad Hartman 2
Darcy Lang 1
Jackson Thurlow 1

These players haven’t missed any games:

Jimmy Bartel
Joel Selwood
Mitchell Duncan
Cameron Guthrie
Tom Hawkins
Jordan Murdoch
Mark Blicavs

The theory is – our midfield has been severely stretched for most of the season – 34 games across 15 rounds is at least 2 preferred midfielders out each week. This has caused obvious and well-documented problems in clearances and contested possessions. Those issues have placed additional stresses on our backline. However, our backline has held up remarkably well – conceding only 9 points more after 15 games than at the same time in 2013. This has been, at least in significant part, to a relatively settled back 6 which has missed a combined total of 9 games over the 15 games. I think the MC has probably felt that it wasn’t in a position to ‘rest’/’manage’ the backline players too much because of the stresses it was under due to our midfield issues. This has meant, Bews aside, no games to the likes of Hamling and Kolo and only one to Jackson Thurlow. When backline openings have come up they've gone to players perceived as safe options like Hunt and Sherringham. In a different scenario where our midfield was not as stretched as it has been, I think the MC would have been more minded to put additional games into untried players.
 

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