FTA-TV Homeland *Spoilers*

[NitroFan]

As it stood when the old dude took over there would be no place for Saul given their relationship. It'll be much more plausible now if Saul continues to work for the CIA IMO.

yeah, but saul couldve got rid of him for good. as grizzly pointed out, the reasons saul gave for not doing so dont stand up to much scrutiny.

 

[grizzlym]

yeah, but saul couldve got rid of him for good. as grizzly pointed out, the reasons saul gave for not doing so dont stand up to much scrutiny.

That's it. He could have taken him out, told him to nick off quietly or he'd ruin him.

Saul held every card and could have got exactly what he wanted and saved the agency from the government hawks.

 

[Elixuh]

yeah, but saul couldve got rid of him for good. as grizzly pointed out, the reasons saul gave for not doing so dont stand up to much scrutiny.

That's it. He could have taken him out, told him to nick off quietly or he'd ruin him.

Saul held every card and could have got exactly what he wanted and saved the agency from the government hawks.

But in the story its been said many times that the CIA is one more scandal away from being shut down. How would it look if the soon to be director was found to have been giving and receiving information from an Israeli agent? The CIA would be done for.

I thought what happened struck a nice balance between what Saul wanted to do, and what Saul did. It shows that he doesn't think he is bigger than the agency and that he is just one cog in the wheel.

+ he didn't want anything to fall back onto his wife.

As an aside to that I think its a smart play by Saul. He could have told him to nick off quietly but then the old dude would have just been replaced by another 'political hawk'. At least now Saul has some control via his leverage. Its probably his hope that now there won't be as much political scrutiny.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

I'm happy to buy what he said about the CIA couldn't afford something like that to happen. There'd just been a big song and dance about this guy becoming the new head of the CIA and a day or so out he pulls out?

 

[speedybundy]

Did we ever resolve who was the mole inside the CIA from season one? The whole thing with the guy who managed to kill himself in custody.

Wasn't it just implied that it was Brody who handed him the razor blade? It was a really an irrelevant by the Q&A episode though.

The only thing this season lacks in comparison to S1 is realism, we're always going to get high quality production from Homeland. Damian Lewis in this episode was brilliant.

Interesting sidenote, found out that Homeland writers originally planned Brody to detonate the bomb in the S1 finale but Showtime thought Damian Lewis was too good to lose. Reckon that could have contributed to the slightly erratic nature of the past two seasons, although it does seem to be slowly connecting.

One last point, loved the connection between Saul and Nazir through Brody's hallucination, essentially both men have manipulated and controlled him to advance their causes. This is what bugs me when people accuse Homeland of being racist/stereotypical to other (particularly Arabic/Middle Eastern) nations, often times they're having more of a dig at how the US defends/conducts itself then anything else.

 

[grizzlym]

But in the story its been said many times that the CIA is one more scandal away from being shut down. How would it look if the soon to be director was found to have been giving and receiving information from an Israeli agent? The CIA would be done for.

I thought what happened struck a nice balance between what Saul wanted to do, and what Saul did. It shows that he doesn't think he is bigger than the agency and that he is just one cog in the wheel.

+ he didn't want anything to fall back onto his wife.

As an aside to that I think its a smart play by Saul. He could have told him to nick off quietly but then the old dude would have just been replaced by another 'political hawk'. At least now Saul has some control via his leverage. Its probably his hope that now there won't be as much political scrutiny.

I get what you're saying, I just think Saul had the cards to stay in there on his own terms. The Dick Cheney type would do anything, in my opinion, to avoid any scandal.

 

[grizzlym]

Wasn't it just implied that it was Brody who handed him the razor blade? It was a really an irrelevant by the Q&A episode though.

The only thing this season lacks in comparison to S1 is realism, we're always going to get high quality production from Homeland. Damian Lewis in this episode was brilliant.

Interesting sidenote, found out that Homeland writers originally planned Brody to detonate the bomb in the S1 finale but Showtime thought Damian Lewis was too good to lose. Reckon that could have contributed to the slightly erratic nature of the past two seasons, although it does seem to be slowly connecting.

One last point, loved the connection between Saul and Nazir through Brody's hallucination, essentially both men have manipulated and controlled him to advance their causes. This is what bugs me when people accuse Homeland of being racist/stereotypical to other (particularly Arabic/Middle Eastern) nations, often times they're having more of a dig at how the US defends/conducts itself then anything else.

Yes, Brody is just an asset who is being used, abused, turned and manipulated by both sides. They are doing the same thing to each other.

Dunno about the mole. There are various things, least of all the bombing, that would appear to point towards someone inside the CIA being a mole. Who knows? With another 2 seasons and a handful of episodes of this season to play out, every permutation will no doubt be covered.

 

[Dry Rot]

I get what you're saying, I just think Saul had the cards to stay in there on his own terms. The Dick Cheney type would do anything, in my opinion, to avoid any scandal.

Not sure I agree. The Senator is now Saul's bitch - not a bad outcome.

He can be the figurehead, while Saul quietly does the (dirty) work.

 

[Elixuh]

I get what you're saying, I just think Saul had the cards to stay in there on his own terms. The Dick Cheney type would do anything, in my opinion, to avoid any scandal.

Saul doesn't control his own tenure though (well I wouldn't have thought). If the old dude stepped down then there would be some kind of political oversight committee or something like that which would be circling and probably choose another PR heavyweight politician to replace him. It was a choice between the unknown of a new candidate who would come in (so Saul has 0 control) vs Saul having some control and predictability.

 

[DIG]

Saul doesn't control his own tenure though (well I wouldn't have thought). If the old dude stepped down then there would be some kind of political oversight committee or something like that which would be circling and probably choose another PR heavyweight politician to replace him. It was a choice between the unknown of a new candidate who would come in (so Saul has 0 control) vs Saul having some control and predictability.

This. Along with his concern about his wife, is certainly enough to explain his actions I would've thought, without it being considered a plot hole.

 

[RW]

Yes, Brody is just an asset who is being used, abused, turned and manipulated by both sides. They are doing the same thing to each other.

Nailed it. I have often wondered about Saul's motivations on the show -- where do his allegiances lie really? But in this episode he really shone.

Two scenes in particular stood out for me: first, his conversation with Lockhart which proved that he genuinely had the best interests of the agency at heart, and Lockhart knew it, which was why he caved to his demands, even though he might not like Saul's methods; and second, when he revealed the true extent of his plans to Carrie. While the parallel to the Nazir/Brody plot in S1 was clear for all to see, it was also clear from his conversation with Carrie that Saul's motivation is to use Brody as an agent to bring about peace, not war. It is a gutsy, some might say far fetched, plan, but I think Saul genuinely believes that he can use his links to Javadi to break down barriers with Iran.

Homeland may have its plot holes, but this is the reason why it stands above anything else currently on TV (and why Saul is the best character on TV at the moment). Remember Mandy Patinkin is a noted pacifist and previously pulled out of Criminal Minds because he didn't like the direction the show was taking. He wouldn't stay with a show unless he believed in its message.

 

[speedybundy]

Saul doesn't control his own tenure though (well I wouldn't have thought). If the old dude stepped down then there would be some kind of political oversight committee or something like that which would be circling and probably choose another PR heavyweight politician to replace him. It was a choice between the unknown of a new candidate who would come in (so Saul has 0 control) vs Saul having some control and predictability.

I agree, but didn't Lockhart say something about Saul being able to make himself director if he went to the press?

 

[Elixuh]

I agree, but didn't Lockhart say something about Saul being able to make himself director if he went to the press?

Well that is correct. Saul would still be director by default but for how long nobody knows.

 

[Vincent Chase]

That's it. He could have taken him out, told him to nick off quietly or he'd ruin him.

Saul held every card and could have got exactly what he wanted and saved the agency from the government hawks.

Yeah, i didn't understand that either.

He said he wanted to save his wife some embarrassment... you know like walking in on your partner cheating on you with another dude. She deserves it.

Good episode though, Damian Lewis was immense, looking forward to seeing the mission play out.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Yeah, i didn't understand that either.

He said he wanted to save his wife some embarrassment... you know like walking in on your partner cheating on you with another dude. She deserves it.

Good episode though, Damian Lewis was immense, looking forward to seeing the mission play out.

A bit harsh on her - she sacrificed a lot for Saul's career and she "fell in love" with a man whose sole purpose was to charm the pants off her. Saul understood this.

 

[jackn]

So, Saul has incriminating stuff on the soon to be head of the CIA..... No, he doesn't. He makes the utterly stupid demand of "some more time before your inauguration" .

I thought there was a few reasons for it, most of which have already been mentioned by Elixuh and others. He doesn't want to further de-stabalise the CIA, which it's already been mentioned is in a precarious position. He also wants someone who he can have some sway over in charge and doesn't want to embarrass his wife.

Another reason (and I think equally as improtant) which hasn't been mentioned may be that he just doesn't want to be in charge any more. He really wants to give his marriage the time it needs and is glad to hand over the reigns but just wants to get his pieces in play before taking the back seat. He had a D&M with his wife about working on their marriage, which would mean less time at work you'd think.

 

[grizzlym]

I thought there was a few reasons for it, most of which have already been mentioned. He doesn't want to further de-stabalise the CIA, which it's already been mentioned is in a precarious position. He also wants someone who he can have some sway over in charge and doesn't want to embarrass his wife.

Another reason which hasn't been mentioned may be that he just doesn't want to be in charge any more. He really wants to give his marriage the time it needs and is glad to hand over the reigns but just wants to get his pieces in play before taking the back seat. He had a D&M with his wife about working on their marriage, which would mean less time at work you'd think.

Sure. I can see reasons both ways.

I guess, my view of it is if he wanted to work on his marriage and step back, he could also ensure the agency didn't fall into the hands of guys like the senator.

But, you know, like most things on Homeland, everything has more turns than a Mobius Strip in a wind tunnel.

 

[BACCS]

The show has seriously picked up since the start of the season, and I'm enjoying it more than ever. It will be very interesting to see how the Brody play works out, because it's impossible to predict anything with Homeland!

 

[Gasometer]

...so did we endure the Dana-centric first few yawn fests of this season for the 5 minutes of I hate you Dad in the Motel Room?

LOL'd at the '16 days later' slide.

Anywho, aside from the ^^ above issues, it has picked up the last few eps and I echo the sentiments regarding next week.

Soon as I here 'drones' I shiver.

 

[Elixuh]

RE: wanting to save his wife embarrassment (and I'm contradicting a bit of what I said above) had Saul chosen to it would have been handled quietly. The senator would have withdrawn quietly and Saul's wife would have been none the wiser. So I think that's really a non-issue.

The senator pulling out would be terrible for PR but also would not de-stabilise the agency further or cause it to collapse.

 

[FRUMPY]

Ive felt that this is Saul's last job and after the job is done he will walk away from the CIA, its just a feeling i get and reason why he didnt push harder to out the new boss. Especially after he was overlooked for the main job. After that he has rekindled his marriage a bit and to me looks ready to move away from the CIA.

 

[speedybundy]

I thought Homeland was getting far fetched, apparently not
http://www.news.com.au/world/penny-...to-double-agents/story-fndir2ev-1226769144936

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Love how it is effectively setting up series next to be a mirror of series one. Brody as a 'hero' commiting an act of domestic terrorism. Except Saul is now Abu Nazir.

 

[rumply]

Ive felt that this is Saul's last job and after the job is done he will walk away from the CIA, its just a feeling i get and reason why he didnt push harder to out the new boss. Especially after he was overlooked for the main job. After that he has rekindled his marriage a bit and to me looks ready to move away from the CIA.

Agree, as otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense.

btw, cool username

 

[dart]

I fell off the homeland bandwagon during episodes 2 & 3, but had some spare time on my hands this week so I have caught up and am now up to date, very glad I put in the effort, it's really delivered in the last handful of episodes.