How long until we see a top-heavy period like the late 2000's/early 2010's again?

[BallaratBulldog]

The funny thing about the era mentioned in the OP is the Bulldogs are an afterthought/not even mentioned. They didn't have the same peak, but I'd argue that despite not making a grand final, they were consistently better for longer than St Kilda over practically the same era. Utterly loaded around 2009 and then added Barry Hall in 2010 (but dropped off a bit due to other players starting to decline).

Picking your favourite flag is like picking your favourite child, but removing the emotion, I think 2009 has a very strong case. That's as stacked a top four as I've ever seen. Just three kick arse teams in their absolute prime and one team just about to hit one of the most dominant 18 month stretches we've seen in the last 30 years.

Unfortunately, we had our chance in 2008 and 2009 prelim and fluffed it. Inaccuracy and unironically did not have the rub of the green.

 

[Blackas87]

During that period we saw some incredibly special teams:

• Geelong from 2007-2011
• Collingwood from 2009-2012
• Saint Kilda from 2009-2011

The Western Bulldogs were another pretty strong team during that period, 2008-2010 finishing top 4 those 3 years and losing in the prelim each year. Topping up with Akermanis and Barry Hall they were exciting, a pretty good challenger to those super teams.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Fair enough. No-one cares that Andy Murray’s career has run parallel to Roger, Rafa and Novak. It’s only about beating who is in front of you.

I think people do care. I've heard it multiple times that Murray would have had more success at Grand Slams if he played in a different era, say parallel to Lleyton Hewitt.

 

[BF Tiger]

I think people do care. I've heard it multiple times that Murray would have had more success at Grand Slams if he played in a different era, say parallel to Lleyton Hewitt.

That’s the point I’m making. No-one say Sampras would have less slams if he played in the era of the Big 3. It’s about beating who is in front of you right at that moment.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

That’s the point I’m making. No-one say Sampras would have less slams if he played in the era of the Big 3. It’s about beating who is in front of you right at that moment.

Huh? That is another thing that people say. Tennis fans do hypothesise how Sampras would go if he played in the Nadal/Federer/Djokovic era. And I think they all conclude he would certainly have won less slams.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Based on what? You got a club statement or anything. Or are you “in the know”

Well, Dimma, players, the footy department, the club administration have all said it. And they have structured how we approach the seasons that way, so I sort of believe them.

 

[SuperVolley11]

Well, Dimma, players, the footy department, the club administration have all said it. And they have structured how we approach the seasons that way, so I sort of believe them.

So it should be easy to find one article or video.

 

[maskmcgee]

During that period we saw some incredibly special teams:

• Geelong from 2007-2011
• Collingwood from 2009-2012
• Saint Kilda from 2009-2011

If you want to extend the period out a little, you can include teams like Hawthorn and Sydney.

Western Bulldogs?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Just here waiting for Richmond supporters to make this about Richmond.

Well it's obviously a troll thread.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Well it's obviously a troll thread.

Seems like a perfectly legitimate discussion to me.

You might just be being a snowflake

 

[Ron The Bear]

Seems like a perfectly legitimate discussion to me.

You might just be being a snowflake

Eh, if you want to discuss the great St.Kilda side that fell short of the top, knock yourself out.

 

[cherrypie]

The funny thing about the era mentioned in the OP is the Bulldogs are an afterthought/not even mentioned. They didn't have the same peak, but I'd argue that despite not making a grand final, they were consistently better for longer than St Kilda over practically the same era. Utterly loaded around 2009 and then added Barry Hall in 2010 (but dropped off a bit due to other players starting to decline).

Picking your favourite flag is like picking your favourite child, but removing the emotion, I think 2009 has a very strong case. That's as stacked a top four as I've ever seen. Just three kick arse teams in their absolute prime and one team just about to hit one of the most dominant 18 month stretches we've seen in the last 30 years.

I have no doubt our side from that era would have won a couple of flags in the 2010s, just had horrible luck to be a great side with even greater teams at the same time

 

[Cuzz09]

At the end of the day no one cares about eg.StKilda 09-11 etc if they dont win a flag.



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

It could be there were more great teams, different talent distribution, a weaker rest of the comp.

The one factor that hasn’t been mentioned is that this was an era of historical weakness for the non-Vic teams, and the dominant teams were all Victorian.

The Crows, Power, Eagles, Dockers and Lions were all pretty trash over this era. They all had maybe 1 good year over that era. Only the Swans made the finals consistently, and even then it was only as an after thought.

Having very few tough games on the road makes it easier to rack up crazy W/L records. There’s a reason all 5 teams that have won 20 games were Victorian, and all 5 teams did it in seasons where the rest of the top 4 were other Vic clubs.

In 1995, 2000, 2008, 2009 and 2011, the only non-Vic team to make the top 4 was West Coast in 2011. The other 19 spots were Vic clubs.

 

[justlookingaround]

2009 was a great year of footy.

 

[Roddy]

I heard a great quote a while back....
"Nostalgia is denial."
It went on to say: "the name for this denial is golden age thinking - the erroneous notion that a different time period is better than the one ones living in - its a flaw in the romantic imagination of those people who find it difficult to cope with the present."
And here we go again. It just goes on and on and on, in football, in movies, in music, and I'm sure it happens in many other areas of human endeavour.
"Things were so much better in the good old days!" It's just a vacuous slogan.
In 2030-35, people will be saying "why can't we have great teams like Richmond were in the late 2010s-early 2020s?"
And on and on it will go......

 

[justlookingaround]

At the end of the day no one cares about eg.StKilda 09-11 etc if they dont win a flag.



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

I dunno, people still talk about them and they're often considered the best team not to win a flag.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

During that period we saw some incredibly special teams:

• Geelong from 2007-2011
• Collingwood from 2009-2012
• Saint Kilda from 2009-2011

If you want to extend the period out a little, you can include teams like Hawthorn and Sydney.

It felt like, around about 2009-2010 or so, there were three all-time great squads up and running. Saint Kilda and Geelong had both been building up since the early 2000's. Collingwood since about the mid 2000's. Great lists that were able to realize and reach their full potential, thanks to great coaches at the helm.

During those periods, they went:

• Geelong 2007-2011 = 105-20
• Collingwood from mid 2009-mid 2012 = 66-13-2
• Saint Kilda from mid 2008-2010 = 48-14-2

I feel like if Saint Kilda had come 3-4 years earlier with this team, they'd have won it all, multiple times. Hell, they were that close to winning twice while going up against all-time great competition.

There are periods where there's an abundance of significantly talented teams, and other periods where there might only be one, if at all any. I think, over the last 5 years, we've been in a lesser period. Ever since Hawthorn and Sydney dropped off, in my opinion. Richmond has been dominant, but I don't feel like they've gone up against the quality of opposition that the 3 teams listed above had to. I even think Sydney was more of a foil to Hawthorn than any of the teams over the last 5 years have been to Richmond.

But that's just my opinion.

Each of these 3 tremendous late 2000's/early 2000's sides had a different origin story.

Geelong broke out in 2004, making the top 4, going all-the-way to a prelim final. They had a tremendous list that disappointingly underperformed in 2005 and 2006. It seemed like more of the same 3-4 games into 2007 before everything changed. I don't think too many people were surprised by how good they became, because the potential was always there.

The story was fairly similar for Saint Kilda. They burst onto the scene in 2004 as well, winning something like their first 10 or 11 games. They finished in the top 4, and lost a close prelim final in Adelaide. They had, by far, the best list in the AFL — and it was fairly young to boot. They had Nick Reiwoldt, who had just broken the marks record. They had Gehrig, who kicked 100+ and won the Coleman. They also had arguably the best small FWD in the game in Milne — someone who'd go on to kick huge 60-70 as a small.

They also had Koschitzke too. Talk about a stacked FWD line.

Their midfield was tremendous, with lots of young, blossoming talent. Luke Ball, Lenny Hayes, Brendan Goddard, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, etc, etc...

Like Geelong, they failed to take the next step after 2004. Despite having the best list in football, they couldn't reach their full potential. Grant Thomas out, Ross Lyon in, a few roster changes, gameplan, that list maturing — things were back on track by 2008. 2009 is when they finally arrived.

Collingwood's journey was a little different. They bottomed out in 2004 and 2005 after back-to-back grand final appearances. You could say they overachieved. They made the right list changes and were back on the right track by 2006. I'm not sure what happened between 2006 and 2009, but perhaps they completely flushed out remnants from the 2002-2003 era team. They were very young when they started playing top-notch football halfway through the 2009 season.

It’s St Kilda... it’s not and never has been Saint Kilda. The suburb is named after a ship, which was in turn named after the Scottish island.

St Kilda, Scotland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It’s possible St Kilda was mistakenly adapted from an old Norse name, Skildir. It’s actually never been about a saint.

 

[Always Ballin]

I heard a great quote a while back....
"Nostalgia is denial."
It went on to say: "the name for this denial is golden age thinking - the erroneous notion that a different time period is better than the one ones living in - its a flaw in the romantic imagination of those people who find it difficult to cope with the present."
And here we go again. It just goes on and on and on, in football, in movies, in music, and I'm sure it happens in many other areas of human endeavour.
"Things were so much better in the good old days!" It's just a vacuous slogan.
In 2030-35, people will be saying "why can't we have great teams like Richmond were in the late 2010s-early 2020s?"
And on and on it will go......

Delusional. Recency bias and nostalgia are two sides of the same coin. What matters is proper analysis. I think most people would agree with the agenda of this thread.

Can you provide a good argument otherwise? I doubt it.

 

[Always Ballin]

Well it's obviously a troll thread.

You provide no value to this forum.

 

[Summer Nights]

Delusional. Recency bias and nostalgia are two sides of the same coin. What matters is proper analysis. I think most people would agree with the agenda of this thread.

Can you provide a good argument otherwise? I doubt it.

Exactly. I thought at the time (2009-11) that it was the best standard of footy at the top I’d ever seen, and I hold the same view today. Describing it as golden age thinking is cringe.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

It’s St Kilda... it’s not and never has been Saint Kilda. The suburb is named after a ship, which was in turn named after the Scottish island.

St Kilda, Scotland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It’s possible St Kilda was mistakenly adapted from an old Norse name, Skildir. It’s actually never been about a saint.

This, people just look stupid when the rabbit on about "Saint" Kilda