Analysis How the state of the game has evolved, is the increased rate of injuries a result of of the evolution

[NoobPie]

in my opinion one on one footy is in the same place as blockbuster video.

team defense is here to stay. zone defense isn't very tiring at all if it's done right. yes it is constant movement but it's not high intensity. it's like the back 4 in soccer pushing up and back all game. they only run hard when the ball is in their vicinity. in my opinion the reduced rotations hampers the offense more than the defense. i believe that the rotations explosion was a reaction to team defense, not the cause.

it's hard to find interchange data earlier than this but the mid 2000s seems to be the consensus start point for the paul roos team defense era.

Great post. The only thing that rotations potentially enable (or make more feasible) are aggressive forward presses.

Getting rid of interchange may well just see more midfielders skew defensively in their running.

It's not going to stop teams organising defensively and it is not going to stop teams using congestion as a strategy - if anything it will increase these

 

[NoobPie]

When the premiership coach openly admits they look at a draftees tackling ability over his skill I reckon it's incontrovertible that the game is effed up

Can you please provide the actual quote?

 

[mxett]

Great post. The only thing that rotations potentially enable (or make more feasible) are aggressive forward presses.

Getting rid of interchange may well just see more midfielders skew defensively in their running.

It's not going to stop teams organising defensively and it is not going to stop teams using congestion as a strategy - if anything it will increase these

if thats the case the only way to stop this congestion problem is zones, which is a bloody shame

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Can you please provide the actual quote?

Hardwick said it on the couch.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Absolutely agree. I don't blame supporters for liking the sport when their team is winning - but as I said, I think this is an entirely different discussion to the actual game itself.

Most supporters would love watching their team win 1 goal to 0 as long as they win. Most coaches would be happy with it too.

But unfortunately, neutrals wouldn't be. And aren't. The facts are that ratings are on the decline.

Imagine if Richmond and Collingwood weren't up and about this season? And instead, say, North and the Saints were? Imagine what the ratings would look like then!

There'd be fewer Richmond and Collingwood people watching and more North & St.Kilda.

It's not simply that we're winning; those there for the winning will go missing when the wheel turns. It's the long and often-painful journey we've been on which makes the current state of affairs so sweet. People like Maher and Whateley want to shit all over that, so I say "Get ****ed!".

We're not 2005 Sydney which ranked 14th/16 for scoring while playing on a miniature ground with a stoppage-based game. I've seen plenty of shit footy, and this ain't it.

 

[Pessimistic]

You'd have thought tackling was easier to develop as an adult than good kicking

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It's not simply that we're winning; those there for the winning will go missing when the wheel turns. It's the long and often-painful journey we've been on which makes the current state of affairs so sweet. People like Maher and Whateley want to shit all over that, so I say "Get ******!".

Dude, you're completely missing the point.

No one gives a stuff about Richmond in this debate. Winning or losing, is not the point. The 'state of affairs' is irrelevant - it's the state of the game that's the issue.

People are switching off, for good reason. And that's a big problem.

 

[CholEstrol]

Everyone should have to wear a bib in accordance with the position they are playing. These players are then only allowed to move in an allocated 1/3 area of the field.

Also, once a player takes possession of the ball, they can only take one step before passing it - which may only come in the form of a throw.

Finally some common sense. Also bumping into a player also going for the ball is contact - free against.

 

[Scotland]

Would people rather watch congested footy with 25 player inside 50 or a Bowden brothers special with 250 uncontested marks?

 

[Ron The Bear]

People are switching off, for good reason. And that's a big problem.

Are they? Crowds are at an eight-year high, and 2018 ranks third-highest ever after six rounds. Do you have the ratings figures that are supposedly down?

I'd laugh in the past when the media would talk games up because the AFL under Demetriou would be prodding them in the back. Now they're depressed and want to talk it down? Well go ahead, but don't expect me to acquiesce.

 

[HTT]

which has a greater impact on skills? Fatigue or the amount of time players have to dispose of the ball, or the margin of error to pass to a player in heavy traffic due to the heavy congestion we see now?

Players will fatigue no matter which structure is used. The idea of less rotations is they will fatigue earlier if they play a congested gameplay, which will result in poor performance compared to a team that reserves energy by playing in their positions.

If you have fatigued players, they will still be able to congest play - the ball won't be able to move as quickly due to decreased skills so they won't have to.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Can you please provide the actual quote?

Hardwick on the couch a few weeks ago.

 

[NoobPie]

if thats the case the only way to stop this congestion problem is zones, which is a bloody shame

Or pay more holding the ball and ball it up as soon as the play breaks down rather than 15 seconds after

 

[NoobPie]

Hardwick on the couch a few weeks ago.

What date? I'll look it up and check the actual quote

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Are they? Crowds are at an eight-year high, and are at the third-highest level ever after six rounds. Do you have the ratings figures that are supposedly down?

Gerard Whateley does. He spoke about it on the radio this morning. This is why the AFL are meeting about the state of the game next week.

It's a problem.

And as I said, imagine if two clubs with low followings were 'up and about' instead of big clubs like Richmond and Collingwood! There'd be even less people watching.

 

[master bate]

Step 1. Stop complaining footy is broken

Step 2. Enjoy.

Barring that of all the bigger changes that have been suggested 16 a side makes more sense to me. 2 less bad players getting a game each week. More space on the ground. Regardless of what tactics coaches use if there's a higher percentage of good players getting the ball it almost has to be better doesn't it?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Gerard Whateley does. He spoke about it on the radio this morning. This is why the AFL are meeting about the state of the game next week.

It's a problem.

And as I said, imagine if two clubs with low followings were 'up and about' instead of big clubs like Richmond and Collingwood! There'd be even less people watching.

Don't make vague assertions based on Whateley's whining, give me facts. What are the numbers?

Crowds to Round 6:

Year|Crowd
\2018|38,777
\2017|36,738
\2016|35,950
\2015|34,121
\2014|33,947
\2013|35,087
\2012|33,682
\2011|38,415
\2010|40,043

I'd argue that crowds aren't necessarily a barometer of the spectacle, but you can't argue that people are losing interest in the face of the above. Normally they'd be trumpeting "Crowds are up almost three thousand per game...".

What will lead to disinterest is the media fostering dissent, because many people are like sheep.

Edit: 2018 figure corrected. Crowds are up 2K per game on the same point last year.

 

[felixflea]

its was from the first on the couch for the season. a small part of the entire conversation was replayed on monday's ep.

 

[footyfan1978]

"If we want to change congestion I think the best way to do that is to probably nearly eradicate interchange altogether” - Isaac Smith

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You'd have thought tackling was easier to develop as an adult than good kicking

It is, not much can be done about your kicking once you get to senior level.

 

[mxett]

If you have fatigued players, they will still be able to congest play - the ball won't be able to move as quickly due to decreased skills so they won't have to.

Players will be less capable of getting to each contest, which will free up play. This is what happens towards the end of each match. The start is very congested and scrapy, the end is more free scoring as players tire out

Or pay more holding the ball and ball it up as soon as the play breaks down rather than 15 seconds after

possibly, but I think players will adapt to these changes as well. Who knows?

 

[mxett]

"If we want to change congestion I think the best way to do that is to probably nearly eradicate interchange altogether” - Isaac Smith

interesting. Seems to support reduced bench players and rotations

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Don't make vague assertions based on Whateley's whining, give me facts. What are the numbers?

Crowds to Round 6:

Year|Crowd
\2018|39,470
\2017|36,738
\2016|35,950
\2015|34,121
\2014|33,947
\2013|35,087
\2012|33,682
\2011|38,415
\2010|40,043

I'd argue that crowds aren't necessarily a barometer of the spectacle, but you can't argue that people are losing interest in the face of the above.

What will lead to disinterest is the media fostering dissent, because many people are like sheep...

Married at First Sight was the highest rating TV show with nearly 2m viewers. Do you think that's evidence that TV has never been better?

2017 Average Crowds (top 4):
Richmond Tigers 52,562
Essendon Bombers 46,351
Collingwood Magpies 45,636
Adelaide Crows 41,383

2018 Average Crowds (top 4):
Richmond Tigers 65,449
Collingwood Magpies 61,105
Essendon Bombers 48,473
Hawthorn Hawks 47,939


Collingwood are winning, and hey presto they are suddenly averaging 15k more to each game. Richmond win the flag, and hey presto they're up 13k each week. There's your answer as to why crowd numbers are up. And it has nothing to do with the game being in awesome shape. Hawthorn have a won a few this year, and they've also jumped 8k per week. When the big clubs are winning, their big fan base turn up to watch them win - not for the spectacle of the game.

It does not in any way reflect on the quality of the game. It's that people like you, love watching their team do well. As I said, the average punter doesn't care what the game looks like when their team is winning. But the neutral fan does. So even though crowd numbers are up for these clubs (and as a result, for the whole comp), the TV ratings are down.

Neutrals are switching off. It's boring. Dull, and ugly.

 

[HTT]

Players will be less capable of getting to each contest, which will free up play. This is what happens towards the end of each match. The start is very congested and scrapy, the end is more free scoring as players tire out

possibly, but I think players will adapt to these changes as well. Who knows?

So for one season, you might see this present entertaining footy. Before they start valuing athletic capabilities of football abilities, because by turning it into a grind, that skill goes out the window. Currently, pressuring the ball is the 'in' tactic. You won't be able to change that except by coming up with an actual tactic to beat it.

 

[M Malice]

Cap the interchange at around the 40 mark, IIRC the total interchanges during our 3peat were around 30-40 per game, Simon Black played every minute of the 2003 GF. The better players will spend more time on the ground with less interchanges.

I also like Nathan Buckley's idea of getting rid of prior opportunity, it would stop those back and forth handballs in congestion, would result in more tap on's, bashing the ball forward, kicking off the ground which would open up the ground. If you take possession you must dispose of it legally, no such thing as knocked out in the tackle, free against.

At least worth a try in the JLT to see what happens.