Analysis How the state of the game has evolved, is the increased rate of injuries a result of of the evolution

[Lavender Bushranger]

The biggest issue, is overcoaching.


No matter what tweaks or full blown rule changes are implemented, the coaches will work out ways to stifle the opposition from executing the basic skills of the game.

And that's the issue. The game is so ugly and boring because players are being coached to prevent the basic skills of the game being executed.

Spoiling, bumping and tackling used to be the ways to achieve that. The use of these skills didn't detract from the game.

But now coaches have developed methods of clogging up the game and negating the opposition that do detract from the game.

And they'll continue to do so, cause it's their job.



The AFL must reduce the influence of coaches on game day.

This is THE way to improve the game.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Disagree. What you’ll see is a clear discrepancy between the super aerobic athletes breaking away from the contests. This will make the less fitter footballers stay up forward rather than getting sucked up the ground then breaking off in a big zone.

We will return to good old fashioned one on one footy. Traditional positions will be far visible and blokes will have ‘think’ about their positioning rather than interchanging after 2 minutes because they’re cooked.

At 90 rotations a game you’ve basically got a rotation every 1.5 minutes.

in my opinion one on one footy is in the same place as blockbuster video.

team defense is here to stay. zone defense isn't very tiring at all if it's done right. yes it is constant movement but it's not high intensity. it's like the back 4 in soccer pushing up and back all game. they only run hard when the ball is in their vicinity. in my opinion the reduced rotations hampers the offense more than the defense. i believe that the rotations explosion was a reaction to team defense, not the cause.

it's hard to find interchange data earlier than this but the mid 2000s seems to be the consensus start point for the paul roos team defense era.

 

[Furn2]

Less rotations means more athletes, not less. High scoring footy isn't attractive when it's 20 goals against 20 goals, there is no contest there.

So then why not have 10 or 15 or 50 on the bench and unlimited rotations ?

If no rotations is bad then more must be good.

What we do know is 4 on the bench isn't working.

 

[smasha]

Absolutely agree. I don't blame supporters for liking the sport when their team is winning - but as I said, I think this is an entirely different discussion to the actual game itself.

Most supporters would love watching their team win 1 goal to 0 as long as they win. Most coaches would be happy with it too.

But unfortunately, neutrals wouldn't be. And aren't. The facts are that ratings are on the decline.


Imagine if Richmond and Collingwood weren't up and about this season? And instead, say, North and the Saints were? Imagine what the ratings would look like then!

But Richmond kick over 100 points a game.

 

[living_in_syd]

Honestly if they stopped scheduling shitty games on prime time this wouldnt be as a big an issue

Plus a lot of teams seem to be in transitional stage

 

[Equus]

Have the coin toss replaced with an arm wrestle.

 

[mxett]

Except that it won't work. If it starts to do that, clubs will start recruiting athletes over footballers and congestion will remain the same, but with players that are genuinely poorly skilled. Won't that just be a joy to watch

Clubs are already recruiting athletes in preference to true footballers. This change may see a return to skilled players rather than elite runners. What have we got to lose? it's not like a smaller bench and less rotations has never been part of the game. Either way the current levels of congestion are lowering skills and resulting in an unwatchable mess for most games

 

[mxett]

What's with all the Richmond supporters getting defensive about this topic?

because their team is succeeding using a strategy many now believe is bad for the game and requires changing

 

[Masqualero]

I get that running and bouncing is now iconic because it’s been a stupid historic rule so we probably have to keep it. But increase the distance to 25m and tell the umpires to rule on the side of caution and only pay the really obvious ones. Like in the NBA they don’t pay travels harshly because it increases the spectacle.

You actually might be on to something

Maybe change the wording of prior opp to 4 steps with the ball or something like that so it can't be interpreted so inconsistently.

 

[frenchconnection]

See i don't see congestion itself as a problem. the problem is the scrappy skills many sides have when trying to navigate through it which has been really noticeable since we started restricting interchanges.

in 2013 (highest scoring season in last decade) when interchanges were at their maximum the game was still congested but i don't remember everyone complaining that the game was unwatchable. the players were rested enough to run,spread from contests and execute effectively.

I think most of the complaining about congestion comes from the 'back in my day' mentality. the modern game looks different to how it did in the 90s but when it's played well is fine as a spectacle. I think the quality of the product will improve if we stop making players tired on purpose

That's the problem though only the teams towards the top of the ladder have this skill which obviously makes a lot of games a bit of eyesaw to watch as a spectator. How many times do you hear the comments when a top side plays a bottom side that the bottom side have more or less brought the top side down to their playing level. Also for those spectators at the ground when the play is congested and play is down the other end it's almost impossible to see what is really happening as the whole 36 players seem to be down one end which makes it so congested. Goodness knows how the umpires can see when to play a free kick etc. the game needs opening up!

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

Its got nothing to do with Richmond. Modern footy is horrific as a spectacle, Richmond play the best version of it but it's ******* horrible.

Your second point is silly, the game used to be played by part time players who drank heaps and ran way less and they were far more skilled than the modern players.

Actually previous generations could barely kick, run or handball.

The myth of their greatness is perplexing.

Go watch an old game and you’ll realise it’s just a bunch of average non-athletic unprofessional suburban blokes from the same city all having a kick.

Less than 5% of the past generation would even get a game today.

A dud today would’ve been a gun back then... today’s players are way, way more skilled and that’s why there’s so many defensive tactics to stop them.

 

[smasha]

It's awful. Ugly, boring.

It's the 'winningest' style of footy, but it's far from 'great' in terms of being entertaining to neutral observers of the sport (ie. me).

Of course,I hated it when Hawthorn won games but their football was terrific.

Richmond play a fantastic brand of footy right now!

 

[Taylor]

Yes. That's why nobody should have "Ross Lyon" or any coach within earshot of any AFL forum discussing the state of the game!

The same Ross Lyon who scored the highest total just two round ago in thumping rain?

Don't get sucked in.

 

[HTT]

Clubs are already recruiting athletes in preference to true footballers. This change may see a return to skilled players rather than elite runners. What have we got to lose? it's not like a smaller bench and less rotations has never been part of the game. Either way the current levels of congestion are lowering skills and resulting in an unwatchable mess for most games

Why would it do that? It's crazy talk
Rule changes aren't going to change the fact that coaches want to provide maximum pressure on the ball carrier. As many have pointed out, pressure was up a few years ago when rotations were 140+, but the players weren't fatigued and could kick accurately all the time. You say the game has gotten uglier, so you're saying that when there was unlimited rotations, it was better. Fatigue has a far greater effect on skills than it has on running capacity.
As I elaborated on earlier, make stoppages faster. Get rid of the third man up rule, don't worry about having a perfect throw, don't wait for anyone, pay frees against those who slow it down. When congestion causes the game to slow down, why allow this congestion to form?

 

[Taylor]

So then why not have 10 or 15 or 50 on the bench and unlimited rotations ?

If no rotations is bad then more must be good.

What we do know is 4 on the bench isn't working.

That's a false equivalency. The only standard between the two is that the team that can run to contest more contests will win more games, so the coaches will still want a team that can play the same way.

You effectively gave me the same argument back that not drinking is the opposite of drowning. You're throwing primary school arguments out.

The coaches will demand of the players a game plan to win, that won't be less running work. No team has won a flag through putting in less effort than their opponent on purpose.

That Adelaide game against the Suns showing a lot of players near the ball still had a side score over 100 points. The 69 to 86 score of the Swans Geelong game was far more enticing.

 

[Pessimistic]

Clubs are already recruiting athletes in preference to true footballers. This change may see a return to skilled players rather than elite runners. What have we got to lose? it's not like a smaller bench and less rotations has never been part of the game. Either way the current levels of congestion are lowering skills and resulting in an unwatchable mess for most games

Isnt this a ten year old opinion? If you cant kick you don't get a game at Hawthorn (except one or two) isn't the pendulum swinging the other way?

 

[frenchconnection]

Disagree. What you’ll see is a clear discrepancy between the super aerobic athletes breaking away from the contests. This will make the less fitter footballers stay up forward rather than getting sucked up the ground then breaking off in a big zone.

We will return to good old fashioned one on one footy. Traditional positions will be far visible and blokes will have ‘think’ about their positioning rather than interchanging after 2 minutes because they’re cooked.

At 90 rotations a game you’ve basically got a rotation every 1.5 minutes.

Really miss the Carey v Jakovich days and others like them - it was very interesting to watch the duals between 2 competitive brutes!

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

You actually might be on to something

Maybe change the wording of prior opp to 4 steps with the ball or something like that so it can't be interpreted so inconsistently.

Incorrect disposal is a blight on the game, players are that good these days they can handball and kick very quickly almost as soon as they receive the ball so I don’t see why they need an eternity for prior opportunity.

 

[mxett]

Why would it do that? It's crazy talk
Rule changes aren't going to change the fact that coaches want to provide maximum pressure on the ball carrier. As many have pointed out, pressure was up a few years ago when rotations were 140+, but the players weren't fatigued and could kick accurately all the time. You say the game has gotten uglier, so you're saying that when there was unlimited rotations, it was better. Fatigue has a far greater effect on skills than it has on running capacity.
As I elaborated on earlier, make stoppages faster. Get rid of the third man up rule, don't worry about having a perfect throw, don't wait for anyone, pay frees against those who slow it down. When congestion causes the game to slow down, why allow this congestion to form?

which has a greater impact on skills? Fatigue or the amount of time players have to dispose of the ball, or the margin of error to pass to a player in heavy traffic due to the heavy congestion we see now?

Players will fatigue no matter which structure is used. The idea of less rotations is they will fatigue earlier if they play a congested gameplay, which will result in poor performance compared to a team that reserves energy by playing in their positions.

 

[mxett]

Isnt this a ten year old opinion? If you cant kick you don't get a game at Hawthorn (except one or two) isn't the pendulum swinging the other way?

it's a factor, but so is running capacity.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Isnt this a ten year old opinion? If you cant kick you don't get a game at Hawthorn (except one or two) isn't the pendulum swinging the other way?

Nope, 17 other clubs think recruiting kids who have not proven they can play is the answer. The Hawks are the only club who have worked out that by drafting ready made footballers instead of colts you can win flags. Most of the other clubs continue on the colts rebuild program.

 

[Coaster2012]

Why don't they bring in goal line technology like in the EPL? Surely they could afford it. They would know instantly if its a goal or not.

 

[Damon_3388]

in my opinion one on one footy is in the same place as blockbuster video.

team defense is here to stay. zone defense isn't very tiring at all if it's done right. yes it is constant movement but it's not high intensity. it's like the back 4 in soccer pushing up and back all game. they only run hard when the ball is in their vicinity. in my opinion the reduced rotations hampers the offense more than the defense. i believe that the rotations explosion was a reaction to team defense, not the cause.

it's hard to find interchange data earlier than this but the mid 2000s seems to be the consensus start point for the paul roos team defense era.

Pretty much completely kills the fallacy that reduced interchanges will lead to better attacking football.

 

[The Gong]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/mo...s/news-story/f146af57e145b54f8b6b1ee5413564f5

I'm with Buckley on this one. Rather than stupidly counter intuitive fixes like zones just fix HTB and reward the tackler. Give them a free and it'll pen up play.

 

[Ian Dunross]

When the premiership coach openly admits they look at a draftees tackling ability over his skill I reckon it's incontrovertible that the game is effed up