How to solve the fixture problem

[NarniMagic]

This is an idea I came up with in my head and I was curious as to what you all thought about it. Now interestingly, I didn't take "business trip" over to America in order to come up with what I consider to be the best possible solution, I just used common sense. In this "model" you can still have lots of blockbuster games and also, I'm throwing other models (like the EPL 1 home and away game per opponent) out of the equation because legistically speaking, you can't have players play a 34 week season, and the AFL will refuse to trim the fixture down to 17 games (so I'm sticking with 22 games). Now I don't know how long and detailed my post will end up being but bare with me. Here is how you "fix" the fixture and make the AFL as fair, even and competetive as possible

• First off, you have all 18 teams play against each other in the first 17 rounds. This is the only (minor) roadblock in my extremely fair draw, because ultimately you will have half of the teams with a 9-8 ratio of home and away games, with the other half 8-9. To fix this, any team that has a 9-8 home and away game ratio will have a 8-9 ratio the next year and vice versa.
• From these opening 17 rounds, you take the ladder. I'm taking this ladder because it factor in the closest to true form possible, everyone has played each other once each.
• Then here is where things get interesting. Because we're sticking with a 22 round fixture, each team needs to have 5 return games. This is where you take the ladder from the first 17 rounds. From this ladder, you split it into 3 groups of 6, those groups being, 1st to 6th place, 7 to 12th place and 13th to 18th place. Then you simply have the return games made up from the teams in these three groups facing each other. Now you can go about this two ways.
• a. Use the ladder (from round 17) from the previous year to make up the return games. This may be the preferred model seeing as you'll have to organise venues, dates ect for the game. or
• b. Use the ladder from the current year. This would be more true to form and avoid discrepancies such as events where a team like Adelaide last year shoot up to the top four, but because of the model get return games against average teams. It could still be achievable despite the problems cited above.

This is in my opinion, the best way to solve the problem. Now think about it, this model I've proposed will still allow big time, "blockbuster" matches. The biggest matches later in the year are hardly games with "big" (as in high drawing) clubs. They're the matches that are important to ladder position. If you have all the teams from 7th to 12th fighting it out against each other in the last 5 rounds, you have a smorgasbord of massive matches literally deciding finals spots. Same goes for teams 1st to 6th fighting it out for top 4 spots. There would be no such thing as an "easy" draw because any return matches are relative to your team's level. Also with the teams down the bottom facing each other, it will give fans of those clubs a reason to care, with the chances of a win greatly increased, as opposed to the countless dead rubber matches we have this time of year. Just look at games from this weekend as an example, did anyone really give a crap about St Kilda vs Hawthorn on a Friday night?

Anyway, rant over.

 

[walhawk]

Did you miss the other 500 threads saying the same thing ages ago?

 

[Admiral Byng]

For commercial reasons the fixtures of who plays who at which venue need to be published in advance for the whole season. You can't leave a significant chunk of the season up in the air and sort it out later.

 

[exe ex machina]

Ideas are in the air

 

[NarniMagic]

For commercial reasons the fixtures of who plays who at which venue need to be published in advance for the whole season. You can't leave a significant chunk of the season up in the air and sort it out later.

I did mention that and admitted using the ladder from a previous season would be the most likely option.

Did you miss the other 500 threads saying the same thing ages ago?

This exact idea? I know there have been 1000 threads talking about fixturing but come on

 

[blue harvest]

Did you miss the other 500 threads saying the same thing ages ago?

Yet another one was started about 2 days ago!

And the conclusion for this system is that the top 6 teams all have to play hard games, whilst the 7th and 8th team get much easier games and a free pass to the top 4 -like Fremantle have got this year with return games against average sides.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I did mention that and admitted using the ladder from a previous season would be the most likely option.

The ladder changes so much from one year to the next. We got Adelaide and West Coast twice this year for example. Now Kevin Sheedy is claiming we got a soft draw. At the start of the season this would have been considered a difficult challenge, but as things have panned out it now looks like it isn't.

 

[SuperSub17]

You would seriously get the 6th placed team at the end of round 16 trying to lose in round 17 to drop to 7th and get a much easier draw in the last five rounds.

 

[Catgirl]

That's a pretty reasonable idea. What happens in finals?

I don't really have a problem with the current fixturing system. If you're good enough to win the flag, you'll beat a team regardless of their position. Also doesn't really count for much during finals, when usually the teams with the easier draws end up being exposed and eliminated anyway.

 

[HugeJohnson]

So the team that finishes say 5th after the first 17 rounds then has to play 5 games against the top 6, while team that is 7th gets to play their 5 games against teams 7-12, making it easier to leapfrog team 5?

 

[cammo78]

Cannot wait for Dan26's dissection of this wickedly new idea.

 

[NarniMagic]

You would seriously get the 6th placed team at the end of round 16 trying to lose in round 17 to drop to 7th and get a much easier draw in the last five rounds.

Put them against Melbourne, like to see them lose that
But in all seriousness, these are good points that I considered . Constructive criticism is a good thing. I'd like to see a discussion to try and perfect an idea pertaining to solving to fixture problem, because unfortunately we can never have a comp where every team plays each other once, and even the 17 round idea would never work because teams with one less away game would bitch endlessly even if it did alternate on a year to year basis.

 

[PapaJ]

Yeah, millions of threads on this issue - but to be fair it's because the fixture is and will always remain under the current system, the single most iniquitous* thing in the AFL. It's a joke that such a 'professional' sporting code has a hap-hazard system.

To the OP, not a bad idea, but will never happen because of block-busters, MCC/AFL/Collingwood contract commitments to play gazzilion games at the MCG, Derbys, Showdowns, Q-clashs, ANZAC day, Len Hall games, this that and the other day etc. etc.

* thought I'd throw a word that hasn't been in all the other 500 threads on this topic.

 

[CF]

oh goody another pointless useless thread about the fixture. Thank you all.

 

[caterina]

Yet another one was started about 2 days ago!

And the conclusion for this system is that the top 6 teams all have to play hard games, whilst the 7th and 8th team get much easier games and a free pass to the top 4 -like Fremantle have got this year with return games against average sides.

But that criticism could be solved if at the end of 17 rounds the teams that finished 1-6 were the top 6, and the remaining five games were to determine which of those six finished top 4. The teams finishing 7-12 would then only play off for 2 final spots

This exact idea? I know there have been 1000 threads talking about fixturing but come on

Yep

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/fixing-the-fixture.886044/#post-22714363

 

[Badesumofu]

That is ridiculously unfair (in such obvious ways that I'm not even going to go into it, been gone over before anyway), very difficult to implement in practice and achieves very little. Also, this exact idea was suggested a couple of months ago.

 

[NarniMagic]

But that criticism could be solved if at the end of 17 rounds the teams that finished 1-6 were the top 6, and the remaining five games were to determine which of those six finished top 4. The teams finishing 7-12 would then only play off for 2 final spots




Yep

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/fixing-the-fixture.886044/#post-22714363

Ok well played That WAS from two years ago to be fair but you're spot on.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Cannot wait for Dan26's dissection of this wickedly new idea.

He probably thinks we need to privatise it.

 

[DarwinRoo]

They need to workout a system where over a certain number of years every team plays each other equally. If it takes 10 years to do it then so be it.

North should play the same amount of games against Collingwood as it does against GWS.

If it means one derby or showdown some years then stiff.

 

[NarniMagic]

They need to workout a system where over a certain number of years every team plays each other equally. If it takes 10 years to do it then so be it.

North should play the same amount of games against Collingwood as it does against GWS.

If it means one derby or showdown some years then stiff.

They also have to start factoring in Home/Away ratios against opponents. Prior to today, we had played Adelaide at Etihad 4 times in a row, while on the flipside, 5 of our last 6 games against West Coast have been at Paterson's (our one home game in Tassie).

 

[FootyJunkie]

Cannot wait for Dan26's dissection of this wickedly new idea.

He's gonna "knock out" NarniMagic.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

• a. Use the ladder (from round 17) from the previous year to make up the return games. This may be the preferred model seeing as you'll have to organise venues, dates ect for the game.

Would be my 2nd preferred option if mine wasn't approved (play everyone once except the rival which gets played twice per year, and play everyone the 2nd time once every four years)

 

[jko'neal]

Play each other twice, everyone travels the same amount of times, and everyone has the same amount of home ground advantage games. Until you have that, throw shit up in the air and see who it lands on

 

[FootyJunkie]

Play each other twice, everyone travels the same amount of times, and everyone has the same amount of home ground advantage games. Until you have that, throw shit up in the air and see who it lands on

And if the AFL decides to expand to 20 sides, which will ultimately happen one day, then a 38 game season? Might work for EPL, but endurance levels between the two sports can't compare.

Time for NFL style divisions... if the AFL want to have return "blockbuster" games, at least put some structure behind it.

Big 4, Melbourne, St.Kilda in the Central division
Geelong, Bulldogs, join WA and SA sides in the South West division
North and Hawthorn, join NSW and QLD sides in the North East division

The Central division comes about by...
- Original 8 VFL sides
- Take away Geelong, so Original 7 Melbourne sides
- Take away relocated South and merged Fitzroy, 5 Melbourne sides
- Add the next Melbourne side from 1908, Richmond, 6 Melbourne sides.

The 1925 VFL entrant sides and Geelong join the non Vic sides in the other divisions.

10 intra division games (home and away), 12 inter division games = 22 games.

3 division winners and next best side regardless of division get spots 1-4.
However... perform a re-rank, so that if the non division winner has a better record than a division winner outside it's own division, then adjust the rankings accordingly.
ie. Winning your division only guarantees you a double chance, but you still may end up 4th.

Next best 4 sides regardless of division get spots 5-8.

Finals as we have now.

I guarantee that given time, games such as Melbourne v St.Kilda, Geelong v Bulldogs, and North v Hawthorn would have more added interest than they have right now.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

For commercial reasons the fixtures of who plays who at which venue need to be published in advance for the whole season. You can't leave a significant chunk of the season up in the air and sort it out later.

Correct. I can't stop laughing about Demetriou being overseas to see what can be done about equalisation of our competition. He allows lop sided fixturing in order to maximise attendances and $$$$$$, offers special favours to some clubs over others (fixturing, salary caps), etc, and yet he pretends to be interested in making the competition even for everyone. Get off the grass Demetriou.