Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

[Chief]

This thread is Continued in Part 5:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 5

Continued From Part 4: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-4.1257360/

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[Baltimore Jack]

He was saying that the news report stated that the teacher is not able to be disciplined for refusing to get a COVID test despite being a close contact.
He is not happy with that as an outcome if true.

Do you see it as an acceptable outcome? For me it could be that there is some legal issues/ legislative power limit that prevents punishment for non compliance but I will admit I do not know the laws. Obviously the "moral" thing in a pandemic is to cooperate, you are one of the lucky people who gets to engage in work while others are locked down. But we know that morals and $2 buys you a small fries at maccas.

And my response was "if you believe the Herald Sun, then you deserve all the angst you've got coming your way"

But lets look at the evidence........oh right there is zip, zero, nada, zilch
It is the Murdog way of things

 

[andrewmillman]

And my response was "if you believe the Herald Sun, then you deserve all the angst you've got coming your way"

But lets look at the evidence........oh right there is zip, zero, nada, zilch
It is the Murdog way of things

Herald sun has been broadly accurate re pandemic news, if more cases got added last night after their story, it doesn't make their reporting to that time incorrect.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Alright. I'd like the names, addresses and contact details of 19 of your closest family, friends and loved ones. I'll let them know for you that you'd view their deaths as statistically insignificant.

Why should we let you kill our families?

perhaps it costs too much to mitigate the risk that they die.
Taking a perhaps stupid example, say I have a patient who is suicidal because he has no where to live (not uncommon by the way)
Should the government provide a house for this person to prevent suicide (assumes no availability at crisis accommdoation - which is generally not available)?

We don't currently expect government to do this as the cost is significant (say $500000 for a house).

Yet the cost of lockdowns per life saved is something along these lines (lockdowns are costed - admittedly by financial type people who may have biases - to run in the billions). If a lockdown costs $1 billion per week, it would need to save 2000 lives a week just to meet that same threshold of cost effectiveness.

This is a discussion which has not happened in public. Yes it is incredibly distasteful. But it needs to occur and probably needs to be driven by economists more than health care professionals.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Herald sun has been broadly accurate re pandemic news,

No it hasn't

Ah, I miss the old days of providing false reports of over 1000 cases a day or the changing of transcripts, the doctored Road Map.....and on it goes

Yeah, that's Murdog for you

 

[Crankyhawk]

And my response was "if you believe the Herald Sun, then you deserve all the angst you've got coming your way"

But lets look at the evidence........oh right there is zip, zero, nada, zilch
It is the Murdog way of things

well, perhaps the question should be asked at the press conference "what sanctions can occur on someone who refuses to take a COVID test even if a close contact" this would eliminate the issues with "herald sun/ news. com"

 

[andrewmillman]

No it hasn't

Ah, I miss the old days of predicting over 1000 cases a day or the changing of transcripts, the doctored Road Map.....and on it goes

Yeah, that's Murdog for you

Transcripts - that was Baxendale of the Oz, not the sun.
Road map - that was a draft and was substantially correct, despite dan saying it "had no basis".
1000 cases - May need a bit more detail on your claim.

 

[Gethelred]

You are a flat out idiot and thank god you're not in charge or working in the medical profession. That is a childlike attitude plain and simple. I can only hope you're young because that sort of binary perspective belongs in a 12 year old.

"You are a flat out idiot," is not an answer to the question I asked.

People die. Get it? Society has always made choices about how much resources to spend on trying to save and protect lives but normally they're hidden from people like you. You are the strawman people are pointing to when they say why don't we ban all cars to stop the road toll.

I am the person informing you that I'd prefer it if 19 of my family didn't die from covid. You're the ******* complaining about having to stay inside while it's raining.

Until you can inform me why I should let you (potentially) kill my family, you can stew in the juices of your discontent until you rot.

I'm in favour of the current lockdown but the idea we will live endlessly in lockdown where you cant go to a school or a playground or see relatives to save 3000 lives a year when 160000 die of other causes is just ridiculous.

... one wonders how you'd have gone during the bombing of Perth, or if you were Chinese when the Japanese invaded.

Thankfully while I can't stand Dan, I am 100% confident he understands that reality. We need higher vaccination rates but it will never be 100% and unvaccinated people will die. Deal with it.

Such unequivocation for someone who has not addressed the post he's quoting in any way whatsoever.

Tell me, do you talk past people in standard conversation? Perhaps lockdown is best for you, then; it might spare those who know you from the odiousness of having to deal with you ignoring them when you speak.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

well, perhaps the question should be asked at the press conference "what sanctions can occur on someone who refuses to take a COVID test even if a close contact" this would eliminate the issues with "herald sun/ news. com"

There are no sanctions for refusing a test as I understand it.

What happens is you are automatically treated like a positive.

The neg in this case is her students are therefore automatically deemed close contacts

 

[Baltimore Jack]

well, perhaps the question should be asked at the press conference "what sanctions can occur on someone who refuses to take a COVID test even if a close contact" this would eliminate the issues with "herald sun/ news. com"

You mean like real journalism?

And here we are back at the beginning again

 

[tandino]

There are no sanctions for refusing a test as I understand it.

What happens is you are automatically treated like a positive.

The neg in this case is her students are therefore automatically deemed close contacts

Not the sort of person I'd want to have care of children if they are so divorced from reason and reality.

 

[Gethelred]

perhaps it costs too much to mitigate the risk that they die.
Taking a perhaps stupid example, say I have a patient who is suicidal because he has no where to live (not uncommon by the way)
Should the government provide a house for this person to prevent suicide (assumes no availability at crisis accommdoation - which is generally not available)?

We don't currently expect government to do this as the cost is significant (say $500000 for a house).

Yet the cost of lockdowns per life saved is something along these lines (lockdowns are costed - admittedly by financial type people who may have biases - to run in the billions). If a lockdown costs $1 billion per week, it would need to save 2000 lives a week just to meet that same threshold of cost effectiveness.

This is a discussion which has not happened in public. Yes it is incredibly distasteful. But it needs to occur and probably needs to be driven by economists more than health care professionals.

I think the notion that people should not be involved in the decision to potentially kill some of them off to ensure economic prosperity is kind of sick.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Not the sort of person I'd want to have care of children if they are so divorced from reason and reality.

Yeah it's pretty shitty behaviour imo

 

[tandino]

I think the notion that people should not be involved in the decision to potentially kill some of them off to ensure economic prosperity is kind of sick.

Governments make those decisions every day of every week

 

[utility]

We need details on the in community numbers before we freak

If someone took a few days to get tested from when an exposure site was listed, they are in community.

To be 100% in iso it means you've been in iso pretty much just 1-2 days after infection. It's a great metric because it's a sign the tracers are on the heels of the spread

Reality is with homeless hookers and illegal parties, people are likely to be outside the vision of CTs, so we're relying on them coming forward

Homeless hookers and 'illegal' parties is rage pr0n for media outlets. Most people who are exposed are via family, colleagues or simply going to a supermarket. In other words, daily life.

 

[fs88]

This is surely going to drag on for the next 3 weeks. If the bulk of yesterday's (and presumably today's) numbers were from Al-Taqua day 13 tests, then we'll have to wait another week and a bit for the day 13 tests from the engagement party (also presuming they play ball and to the right thing). Then we'll need to see the day 13 tests from the sex worker cluster too. High chance September is wiped out so October looks more realistic.

 

[Nikita Blue]

I never thought I'd say this but any freedumb supporters who protest on the weekend deserve the water cannon treatment.

 

[Gethelred]

Governments make those decisions every day of every week

And? Do you have a point?

Governments are elected to represent us; we relinquish our direct control to them to act in our best interests. Tell me, how is making a decision to allow me or 19 of my family to die acting in my best interest?

See, this is where I'm struggling here. You can point to things 'that just happen' as though they're a fact of life, which is begging the question. I can point to any number of things over time that were once a fact of life that are now not, ergo the assumption that you've built your argument upon is false. We can live with lockdowns, and survival is what matters.

Which is the point of the question: why should we let you kill our families?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Homeless hookers and 'illegal' parties is rage pr0n for media outlets. Most people who are exposed are via family, colleagues or simply going to a supermarket. In other words, daily life.

The areas of concern right now for unlinked cases are stkilda and Glen Eira council. Where was the hooker and the party Deidre Chambers?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

And? Do you have a point?

Governments are elected to represent us; we relinquish our direct control to them to act in our best interests. Tell me, how is making a decision to allow me or 19 of my family to die acting in my best interest?

See, this is where I'm struggling here. You can point to things 'that just happen' as though they're a fact of life, which is begging the question. I can point to any number of things over time that were once a fact of life that are now not, ergo the assumption that you've built your argument upon is false. We can live with lockdowns, and survival is what matters.

Which is the point of the question: why should we let you kill our families?

I think he means if you and your family die and he and his family don't, he sees that as being benificial to him

Sounds like a very nice chap

 

[toomuch]

We need details on the in community numbers before we freak

If someone took a few days to get tested from when an exposure site was listed, they are in community.

To be 100% in iso it means you've been in iso pretty much just 1-2 days after infection. It's a great metric because it's a sign the tracers are on the heels of the spread

Reality is with homeless hookers and illegal parties, people are likely to be outside the vision of CTs, so we're relying on them coming forward

Maybe some of the non-isolating cases are homeless contacts of the sex worker. Far less easy for that community.

 

[fs88]

And? Do you have a point?

Governments are elected to represent us; we relinquish our direct control to them to act in our best interests. Tell me, how is making a decision to allow me or 19 of my family to die acting in my best interest?

See, this is where I'm struggling here. You can point to things 'that just happen' as though they're a fact of life, which is begging the question. I can point to any number of things over time that were once a fact of life that are now not, ergo the assumption that you've built your argument upon is false. We can live with lockdowns, and survival is what matters.

Which is the point of the question: why should we let you kill our families?

I'm kind of sensing the let it rip-pers don't care if their own families and friends die and vice versa. What good is a healthy economy when you have no one to enjoy it with when your family and friends are dead or extremely sick.

Once again back to JobKeeper and disaster support, if it was done properly there would be less angst right now and people would be slightly more tolerant of lockdowns.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm kind of sensing the let it rip-pers don't care if their own families and friends die and vice versa. What good is a healthy economy when you have no one to enjoy it with when your family and friends are dead or extremely sick.

Once again back to JobKeeper and disaster support, if it was done properly there would be less angst right now and people would be slightly more tolerant of lockdowns.

My fav quote was the flog who said his daughters happiness of having fish and chips from a shop outside the 5km was more important than your grandmother's life

Some people are selfish campaigners

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

My fav quote was the flog who said his daughters happiness of having fish and chips from a shop outside the 5km was more important than your grandmother's life

Some people are selfish campaigners

Probably an anti-vaxxer too.

 

[mcnulty]

Ok we’re getting to the point where it’s finger in the dyke stuff, and it’s increasingly obvious we’re in this place due to our dismal vaccine rollout.

310,000 yesterday I reckon we need to get to 400,000 conservatively, including weekends, which will nearly double our current numbers by early October.

It’s one thing NSW has done well, and the other States need to catch up, because this is coming for us too.

Divert as much resources as you can. Beg and scrape for supply if you have to. That includes for 12-15s. Just get it out there.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Ok we’re getting to the point where it’s finger in the dyke stuff, and it’s increasingly obvious we’re in this place due to our dismal vaccine rollout.

310,000 yesterday I reckon we need to get to 400,000 conservatively, including weekends, which will nearly double our current numbers by early October.

It’s one thing NSW has done well, and the other States need to catch up, because this is coming for us too.

Divert as much resources as you can. Beg and scrape for supply if you have to. That includes for 12-15s. Just get it out there.

The stock is (rightly) being mostly sent to NSW.

We don't have the same access right now, so we just have to deal with what's available