Hypothetical question: What if a player (e.g. Scharenberg) were homesick and wanted to go home

[SApies]

I call bullshit.

Who gets homesick to go to Adelaide.

be like going back to Commodore 64s and a fax machine.

Ahhhh yeah good one mate! Never gets old that one...

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Hope the club plays hardball with this one. Pick 6, not yet played an AFL game and wants to go home, what a joke.

This is the quote i meant to post.

We will play hardball but i do believe it is a management ploy to get more money.

Anyone know who his manager is?

 

[ottoman]

Plying in front of 50,000 Collingwood Supporters in an 80,000 crowd is no different to playing in front of 50,000 Adelaide or Port supporters in a 53,000 crowd.

Absolute rubbish to say it says something about lack of accountability - He did not ask Collingwood to draft him. He would've been drafted by any of the other 18 clubs with one of their picks that year. It is not his fault that he has spent the best part of 18 months injured. He didn't ask for an ACL injury playing on a dodgy deck on a cold night in Bendigo. None of the players owe clubs loyalty either. The club won't show them any loyalty when they have got every last piece of sweat out of them and then it's on the scrap heap or traded out for something that suits the club better.
As for your comment about DeGoey and never letting you down - I would say Scharenberg has approached ever game with he has been physically fit to play with that exact mindset. DeGoey is happy to stay forever because he's in his home town playing at a club that's just down the road from his parents place and still living with his immediate family, having his family support around him and having his mates all close by to be able to escape the AFL bubble when he needs it for his own mental health.

I think sometimes people don't realise what mental pressures are on players, especially young players, and all they are judged on is their performance on a Saturday. Some people on forums such as these forget it's people, not robots they are making character judgements on. And until you are a part of a player or players support network you wouldn't know just what they do go through every week and as such your judgements are ill informed. Interestingly you haven't publicly made the same assumptions on lack of character or loyalty regarding Tay Adams or Patrick Karnezis…

You make a good argument DH but I disagree with many of your points.
Firstly I think you will find that clubs are loyal to players who are loyal to them. Yeah ultimately there comes a time where every career ends but I think you will find that clubs find jobs and create opportunities for those players who were loyal to them. Have a look at our club as an example, there are many positions being held by ex players. Also clubs help players get their kids into good schools, they train them in many facets of life outside of football to help make them successful post football etc.

Tay, Pk are not good examples. Nor is Beams, Lumumba etc. The facts and circumstances are completely different.

If this rumour were true and Shaz does leave then personally I would consider him to be an absolute flog as far as his character as a person is concerned. You say he didn't ask to come to Collingwood. Yes he did. When he nominated for the draft he basically committed to going to any club that chose him. Now in the last two years the club has invested a lot of time and effort and money into him and has got zero in return. As far as I am concerned he owes the club. If he is homesick and wants to go back to Adelaide then man up and say it and we can piss him off and let Adelaide look after his recovery.

Being injured for 2 years makes the whole scenario much different. Had he played good football for 2 years and asked for a trade then I can live with that. We would get proper value for him, he would have done his best for 2 years and then parted ways. But he has earned good money got the best medical treatment and personal development and has given zero in return. He owes us. And leaving now while his value is low would mean we get hugely screwed.

Hopefully this whole conversation is a mute point and he will re-sign.

 

[Good_Old]

Ahhhh yeah good one mate! Never gets old that one...

As an Adelaide local, he has a point.

 

[Vankri]

Plying in front of 50,000 Collingwood Supporters in an 80,000 crowd is no different to playing in front of 50,000 Adelaide or Port supporters in a 53,000 crowd.

Absolute rubbish to say it says something about lack of accountability - He did not ask Collingwood to draft him. He would've been drafted by any of the other 18 clubs with one of their picks that year. It is not his fault that he has spent the best part of 18 months injured. He didn't ask for an ACL injury playing on a dodgy deck on a cold night in Bendigo. None of the players owe clubs loyalty either. The club won't show them any loyalty when they have got every last piece of sweat out of them and then it's on the scrap heap or traded out for something that suits the club better.
As for your comment about DeGoey and never letting you down - I would say Scharenberg has approached ever game with he has been physically fit to play with that exact mindset. DeGoey is happy to stay forever because he's in his home town playing at a club that's just down the road from his parents place and still living with his immediate family, having his family support around him and having his mates all close by to be able to escape the AFL bubble when he needs it for his own mental health.

I think sometimes people don't realise what mental pressures are on players, especially young players, and all they are judged on is their performance on a Saturday. Some people on forums such as these forget it's people, not robots they are making character judgements on. And until you are a part of a player or players support network you wouldn't know just what they do go through every week and as such your judgements are ill informed. Interestingly you haven't publicly made the same assumptions on lack of character or loyalty regarding Tay Adams or Patrick Karnezis…

Wait, I'm actually not talking about Matthew Scharenberg the currently listed player that hasn't expressed a desire to leave, just the Scharenberg we're talking about in this thread that apparently wants out of Collingwood at the end of his contract.

Not denying that from what I've seen Scharenberg has approached every game as a professional and done very well in his rehab.

What I'm saying in that the AFL world needs to stop with this over-bearing infantilisation of 18yo+ players. Look at European soccer, players are taken away from their hometown and families at the young age of 14yo to go to foreign lands and get development in junior club academies, they are in much different cultures than AFL players will ever experience (not speaking the language if they're in another country) and the pressure is 10 times that of the AFL with much more money and success at stake.

 

[pablo disco bar]

You make a good argument DH but I disagree with many of your points.
Firstly I think you will find that clubs are loyal to players who are loyal to them. Yeah ultimately there comes a time where every career ends but I think you will find that clubs find jobs and create opportunities for those players who were loyal to them. Have a look at our club as an example, there are many positions being held by ex players. Also clubs help players get their kids into good schools, they train them in many facets of life outside of football to help make them successful post football etc.

Tay, Pk are not good examples. Nor is Beams, Lumumba etc. The facts and circumstances are completely different.

If this rumour were true and Shaz does leave then personally I would consider him to be an absolute flog as far as his character as a person is concerned. You say he didn't ask to come to Collingwood. Yes he did. When he nominated for the draft he basically committed to going to any club that chose him. Now in the last two years the club has invested a lot of time and effort and money into him and has got zero in return. As far as I am concerned he owes the club. If he is homesick and wants to go back to Adelaide then man up and say it and we can piss him off and let Adelaide look after his recovery.

Being injured for 2 years makes the whole scenario much different. Had he played good football for 2 years and asked for a trade then I can live with that. We would get proper value for him, he would have done his best for 2 years and then parted ways. But he has earned good money got the best medical treatment and personal development and has given zero in return. He owes us. And leaving now while his value is low would mean we get hugely screwed.

Hopefully this whole conversation is a mute point and he will re-sign.

What would we get a 2nd round pick?

 

[boxy99]

Clubs are much much more loyal then players.

 

[ottoman]

What would we get a 2nd round pick?

I have no idea. Can't say I have any knowledge at all about how clubs rate players.

 

[TradeDraft]

I know absolutely nothing about the situation other than to say that people that are criticising Scharenberg have no right to unless they are part of his close support network. To say the club has done everything they can to support him in settling into Melbourne is an assumption because they club promote that they do so everyone just believes it.
If you don't feel comfortable or happy in your workplace do you stay there or do you look for opportunities elsewhere and make the move? This sport is now a BUSINESS. The days of play for the club or play for the jumper went out when we started paying players as PROFESSIONALS. If you are getting offered more money to do the same job in an environment where you are going to be happier with your non-work life it's natural you are going to seriously consider the offer in front of you and quite possibly make the move.
To claim that he is a "flog" because he wants to be happy in life shows how black and white some people's vision really is! Oh and for what it's worth I don't think he would care if Collingwood supporters think he's a flog. It won't effect his life one little bit.

Being Part of a Footy Forum. Everyone on here are not close to him.

But People will still do it

I agree. Footy is a Business so $$$$ has lot more Influence now then it use to.

NO player would care what Fans think

 

[Magpie Girl]

Perhaps we should change the thread title to:

Hypothetical question: What if a player (e.g. Scharenberg) were homesick and wanted to go home at the end of the year?


Let's not make it so personal, as I think this thread is very disrespectful to him

 

[KJpie]

I was certain Beams would go last year based on contacts. In regards to Shaz I believe he will stay based solely on character and gut feel.

Yes he will chase $$'s, who wouldn't, that said it's far to early to call and people are just guessing.

If all's well he will play seniors by years end and in doing so he will genuinely feel part of the team by virtue of contributing on the field with his team mates after a very frustrating 2 years.

The major concern is if we are serious about obtaining Dangers services as a FA then the crows may go out of their way to target one of ours (most likely a SA boy) and I wouldn't blame them.

I'm a little rusty on the draft rules but ladder position could play a factor at years end if the Crows finish lower and he is able to nominate for the PSD.

For mine I look forward to watching him the B & W next year.

 

[ottoman]

I know absolutely nothing about the situation other than to say that people that are criticising Scharenberg have no right to unless they are part of his close support network. To say the club has done everything they can to support him in settling into Melbourne is an assumption because they club promote that they do so everyone just believes it.
If you don't feel comfortable or happy in your workplace do you stay there or do you look for opportunities elsewhere and make the move? This sport is now a BUSINESS. The days of play for the club or play for the jumper went out when we started paying players as PROFESSIONALS. If you are getting offered more money to do the same job in an environment where you are going to be happier with your non-work life it's natural you are going to seriously consider the offer in front of you and quite possibly make the move.
To claim that he is a "flog" because he wants to be happy in life shows how black and white some people's vision really is! Oh and for what it's worth I don't think he would care if Collingwood supporters think he's a flog. It won't effect his life one little bit.

So you agree that everyone should just look after number 1. We should live in a society where if someone looks after you that you should have no reason to try to do a good thing in return. A society where selfishness is the accepted norm. He owes the club. We gave him an opportunity. We have looked after him. We have paid him a salary and so far have got nothing in return. If a BUSİNESS had provided me with those things I would feel a sense of obligation to repay that business. A person who doesn't feel that obligation is a self centred selfish flog. Yep if this is true then I will stand by what I said and reiterate that he is a flog.
You say it is a business as if loyalty, appreciation, a sense of obligation etc does not apply in the business world. These are all very much a part of any business.

 

[ClaytonM]

Gone

Based on what information?

 

[legendstatus]

The more threads on this, the more we, in our small imaginary minds, thinks he will go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Wayne Arnold]

I know absolutely nothing about the situation other than to say that people that are criticising Scharenberg have no right to unless they are part of his close support network. To say the club has done everything they can to support him in settling into Melbourne is an assumption because they club promote that they do so everyone just believes it.
If you don't feel comfortable or happy in your workplace do you stay there or do you look for opportunities elsewhere and make the move? This sport is now a BUSINESS. The days of play for the club or play for the jumper went out when we started paying players as PROFESSIONALS. If you are getting offered more money to do the same job in an environment where you are going to be happier with your non-work life it's natural you are going to seriously consider the offer in front of you and quite possibly make the move.
To claim that he is a "flog" because he wants to be happy in life shows how black and white some people's vision really is! Oh and for what it's worth I don't think he would care if Collingwood supporters think he's a flog. It won't effect his life one little bit.

It's the internet. People can say what they want. If he wouldn't care about what Collingwood supporters say about him on a football forum, I don't think you should either. But if he left he would be pretty weak and definitely a flog.

 

[drafted hawk]

So you agree that everyone should just look after number 1. We should live in a society where if someone looks after you that you should have no reason to try to do a good thing in return. A society where selfishness is the accepted norm. He owes the club. We gave him an opportunity. We have looked after him. We have paid him a salary and so far have got nothing in return. If a BUSİNESS had provided me with those things I would feel a sense of obligation to repay that business. A person who doesn't feel that obligation is a self centred selfish flog. Yep if this is true then I will stand by what I said and reiterate that he is a flog.
You say it is a business as if loyalty, appreciation, a sense of obligation etc does not apply in the business world. These are all very much a part of any business.

How do you know the club has "looked after him" other than they have paid the wages they agreed to pay for 2 years by signing a contract with him and providing him facilities to obtain and maintain an acceptable level standard of fitness which is a requirement of his contract. It also states in that contract that if he is injured he will continue to be paid for the duration of the contract and it is his responsibility to get back to full fitness as quickly as he possibly can. I believe coming back from an ACL reconstruction he has certainly lived up to his end of the bargain. He couldn't have been more professional to get back playing in 9 instead of 12 months.
Collingwood gave him the opportunity that another 17 clubs would've also given him. He owes them nothing for that, it's not like he was a surprise selection at pick 78.
Not sure you can say for certain that the club has looked after him unless you are in his close support network. Sometimes what the club says publicly isn't what the truth is within the 4 walls.
You're entitled to think he's a flog, I just think he's doing what's best for him and I don't begrudge him that. As I said unless you've been part of a player or players support networks you probably don't understand or know what exactly does go on behind closed doors!

 

[popin]

Well read that on MMM said Pies offered him big Coin and he said he is Very HomeSick

Though I highly doubt that is True. IF it is, I won’t play him again this year

Seriously TD give it a break for one year as you done the same thing about BK all of last year so relax ok buddy ............. thread locked for the meantime please

 

[Pedro]

I think sometimes people don't realise what mental pressures are on players, especially young players, and all they are judged on is their performance on a Saturday. Some people on forums such as these forget it's people, not robots they are making character judgements on.

I don't doubt that these young players are under enormous stress. Some more than others. I imagine Scharanberg is one who is under the least pressure to perform at the moment, considering his history of injury. I wouldn't imagine there are many, if any, Collingwood supporters who would have him under the gun to perform. Personally I'd be happy if he just plugged away in the VFL and regained confidence in his game and his body. Anything more than that is a bonus. Whether or not he sees it that way is another matter I suppose. As for character judgments, it's not really for us to say. Speculating on an unsubstantiated rumour can make you seem like a dill. Unless circumstances suddenly change, Scharanberg is a young Collingwood player who I wish every success. Happy to be a bit patient for it too.

 

[Pies_10]

IMO this would be more disapointing than losing Thomas and Beams, as he hasn't played a single game for the club yet and was almost the highest rated player in that draft baring injury.

 

[KJpie]

All legal and fair, but personally I would rather have players like De Goey who says 'I will never let you down' within his first minute as a Pies player, than players like the hypothetical Scharenberg of this thread that would leave the club after the end of his first contract and having been an injured pick 6 for 2 years.

Great post V
Summed up perfectly by the underlined.

 

[popin]

You make a good argument DH but I disagree with many of your points.
Firstly I think you will find that clubs are loyal to players who are loyal to them. Yeah ultimately there comes a time where every career ends but I think you will find that clubs find jobs and create opportunities for those players who were loyal to them. Have a look at our club as an example, there are many positions being held by ex players. Also clubs help players get their kids into good schools, they train them in many facets of life outside of football to help make them successful post football etc.

Tay, Pk are not good examples. Nor is Beams, Lumumba etc. The facts and circumstances are completely different.

If this rumour were true and Shaz does leave then personally I would consider him to be an absolute flog as far as his character as a person is concerned. You say he didn't ask to come to Collingwood. Yes he did. When he nominated for the draft he basically committed to going to any club that chose him. Now in the last two years the club has invested a lot of time and effort and money into him and has got zero in return. As far as I am concerned he owes the club. If he is homesick and wants to go back to Adelaide then man up and say it and we can piss him off and let Adelaide look after his recovery.

Being injured for 2 years makes the whole scenario much different. Had he played good football for 2 years and asked for a trade then I can live with that. We would get proper value for him, he would have done his best for 2 years and then parted ways. But he has earned good money got the best medical treatment and personal development and has given zero in return. He owes us. And leaving now while his value is low would mean we get hugely screwed.

Hopefully this whole conversation is a mute point and he will re-sign.

He says he is friends with all these afl sa collingwood players, if i was draftedhawk i wouldn't be posting on here about any sa players just out of respect to them being a friend cos it's a small world these days.....

 

[Jasper84]

I have managed to piece it all together:

At the end of the season we are going to trade Shaz and Ben Ken for a couple of first round picks from Adelaide and Port.
We then will be passing those picks and Witts on to GWS for Sheil and Treloar with Stewart as steak knives. Patton wants out but I will get to that later...
We are packaging up our first and second round picks and Fas for Dixon and Prestia.
Carlisle has indicated that he will be exercising his right to walk out due to lack of duty of care by Essendon.
Danger and Suckling are coming to us through F.A.
And finally Patton can see the writing on the wall and will be demanding a trade. This is going to involve multiple swapping of picks and Reid to Brisbane for Aish. We will then be packaging those picks and Brown to GWS.

All this came from a reliable source but I can't give you his name. Or is it her...?

 

[ottoman]

How do you know the club has "looked after him" other than they have paid the wages they agreed to pay for 2 years by signing a contract with him and providing him facilities to obtain and maintain an acceptable level standard of fitness which is a requirement of his contract. It also states in that contract that if he is injured he will continue to be paid for the duration of the contract and it is his responsibility to get back to full fitness as quickly as he possibly can. I believe coming back from an ACL reconstruction he has certainly lived up to his end of the bargain. He couldn't have been more professional to get back playing in 9 instead of 12 months.
Collingwood gave him the opportunity that another 17 clubs would've also given him. He owes them nothing for that, it's not like he was a surprise selection at pick 78.
Not sure you can say for certain that the club has looked after him unless you are in his close support network. Sometimes what the club says publicly isn't what the truth is within the 4 walls.
You're entitled to think he's a flog, I just think he's doing what's best for him and I don't begrudge him that. As I said unless you've been part of a player or players support networks you probably don't understand or know what exactly does go on behind closed doors!

I said "if this is true he is a flog".
Let me give you a different scenario.
David is 17 years old. He wants to be a carpenter. Just as he is about to apply for an apprenticeship he has a car accident and is badly injured. Doctors say he can't work for 2 years.
John who owns a small building company had seen some of Davids work and thinks he could be a very good carpenter. So he says to David that despite his injury he is going to give him a job. John then pays David for the following 2 years. Not only that he also pays for David to see good physios and doctors to try to get David to recover as soon as possible.
2 years pass and John is slowly able to do some work. Just as he is about to become productive Steven offers him a job and he accepts.

Now however you put it as far as I am concerned David is a deadset flog of a human being. A person who lacks character. And I for one would not like to live in a society where what David did is accepted. David is of course free to make this choice. And I am free to call people like David a flog. Because this sort of action does not sit well with my values.
You have different values and I am cool with that. But this is something we will not agree on because we have differing outlooks on life and society.

 

[Reykjavik]

 

[TW Sherrin]

Ahhhh yeah good one mate! Never gets old that one...

Sorry Sa just taking the p ss