Intermittent fasting

[ThePezDispenser]

The "martin" fasting is 8 hours and generally from 12-8 or 1-9!

 

[Bazzar]

Anyone know why you dont start at 6 or 7am to fuel your bod through the day then stop early arvo?

 

[estibador]

Anyone know why you dont start at 6 or 7am to fuel your bod through the day then stop early arvo?

I think the idea is you want to force your body to burn fat for fuel during those times, rather than food.

 

[evo]

Anyone know why you dont start at 6 or 7am to fuel your bod through the day then stop early arvo?

you've already done the hard bit when you were sleeping, so if you can just hang out for another 4 or 5 hours it's the easiest way to do it for most people. I was never much of brekky person anyway. About 14-16 hour mark is when the really serious fat losses kick in with fasting.

Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, cortisol levels are highest not long after waking. Cortisol= catabolic. If you are going to be catabolic you want it attacking fat rather than muscle.

 

[Bazzar]

^^^ Both good points.
I go to the gym twice a day the first at 6am and (from an article in Health and Fitness) never eat then as my insulin levels are at their lowest piont and energy burnt (cardio work) is purley from fat cells, but i load up at 5pm (boxing/weights) which apparently fuels muscle growth.

This new way intrigues me as its close to what im doing but delaying it by a few hours.

Lookiing forward to tracking this (suunto-on the computer) and basic scales.

 

[lysp]

The links you posted don't support your claim that he's a fruit loop.

Figure of speech. I tend not to focus on people who have alarmist or blanket statements. Especially when there is a book that goes along with the headlines.

I have seen the Lustig lecture before. Some of the stuff he says is a bit controversial but generally his message is pretty good. Large intakes of high fructose corn syrup is certainly one of the biggest problems with the current 1st world diet. As you note in your response to cfol, fructose is fine if it is taken in the form of fresh fruit. It is when it when highly concentrated in processed foods like sodas, mcdonalds etc is where the problems arise.

The main problem i find with people who follow people like Lustig is they take it too literally and evangelistically. Tend to preach that this is the way you *must* do things rather than accepting that there are many equally valid ways to construct a diet.

Alan Aragon is great My favourite BB science guy.

I tend to follow a lot of the BB style writers as they tend to have a lot less BS with their articles and also don't feel the need to plug books to earn a living. So follow a lot of Alan's writing. Along with others like Lyle McDonald.

Is 6 better? I was thinking 8 as it seemed popular.

I eat dinner at 7/7.30 and finish around 7.30/8

Im keen to go full on from the start, so if 6 is good im keen.

Start with 8, eventually as you adapt, holding it out another few hours won't be an issue at all.


I started doing around 2-10pm. At the end i could easily hold out to 4-5 without too much hunger, although i ate around 3 most days.

Anyone know why you dont start at 6 or 7am to fuel your bod through the day then stop early arvo?

You can, plus eating later is more a lifestyle thing. People tend to eat as a family or socially around dinner time. Skipping breakfast means they can still follow the traditional eating at night.

 

[Bazzar]

Start with 8, eventually as you adapt, holding it out another few hours won't be an issue at all.

I started today with 8 (from midday) Next week i will then go 7 (from 1), the week after 6, then finish on 5.
I read threough the fast -5 forum and it was facinating (plus the youtube vid)

 

[evo]

I tend to follow a lot of the BB style writers as they tend to have a lot less BS with their articles and also don't feel the need to plug books to earn a living. So follow a lot of Alan's writing. Along with others like Lyle McDonald.

.

Same. Layne Norton is very good as well. Always productive to read a competition body builder who also has a PhD in nutrtion.

 

[lysp]

I started today with 8 (from midday) Next week i will then go 7 (from 1), the week after 6, then finish on 5.
I read threough the fast -5 forum and it was facinating (plus the youtube vid)

It's quite weird, you'll be quite hunger the first week or 2 as you're adapting to it. But then after that you should be able to easily go long times without eating.

For me to wake up in the morning and do full gym workout, then not be hungry until mid afternoon was a crazy insight.

Also i found my body at 2.30pm every afternoon (knowing it usually gets fed at 3) started giving me hunger pains then. Was at that point i realised that my body just tells me when it thinks it's time to eat, rather than when it's actually hungry. The hunger pains/signals are more just a habit rather than being true hunger.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Same. Layne Norton is very good as well. Always productive to read a competition body builder who also has a PhD in nutrtion.

Are Layne and Martin still arguing over IF and whether you're able to achieve optimal growth?

 

[Bazzar]

For me to wake up in the morning and do full gym workout, then not be hungry until mid afternoon was a crazy insight.

At least i am used to my morning workout on an empty stomach (except a strong black coffee, no sugar/milk) I go 5 mornings at 6am and after reading an article in Mens Health i havent eaten anything in the last 3 months. So i super keen to extent that.

 

[evo]

Are Layne and Martin still arguing over IF and whether you're able to achieve optimal growth?

hehe, yep. Layne is not one of the biggest fans of IF, he reckons it is not optimal, which is fair enough.. He's a mine of information when it comes to protein synthesis though.

Speaking of Layne, this is a pretty interesting vlog on wrecking your metabolism by him.



Seems to me one of IF's strengths is you are not likely to fall into this trap.

 

[estibador]

Also i found my body at 2.30pm every afternoon (knowing it usually gets fed at 3) started giving me hunger pains then. Was at that point i realised that my body just tells me when it thinks it's time to eat, rather than when it's actually hungry. The hunger pains/signals are more just a habit rather than being true hunger.

Yeah I reckon everyone could benefit from trying some form of IF at some stage in their lives, purely for the mental discipline it teaches you (or awakens in you).

I've been pretty slack with my diet lately (in terms of the type of food I eat) thanks to rellies staying with me over the Xmas period (that's my pissweak excuse anyway) but before that I was doing Evo's one day a week fast and I dropped 5kg in the first four weeks while my lifts kept going up.

But the real change was in my mindset towards food. If I skipped breakfast I used to get to lunchtime before I convinced myself that I was feeling lethargic, or even sick, because I hadn't eaten yet. Now after a few sessions of fasting I realise it was all in my head.

Once that clicked it changed my whole perspective towards hunger. Before I would give in to the slightest urge to snack, now I just have to stop for a second and I realise I'm not really hungry at all. Surprisingly I haven't put any of that weight back on over the last few weeks despite eating the usual Xmas crap, and I think it's mostly because I've pretty much eliminated that snacking on leftovers mentality.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

What are peoples opinions on wasting as a cutting technique vs standard year round diet

I've been fasting for months as part of a big big cut
Im not sure whether is should continue when i reach my goals and even continue when or if i ever go into a bulk

 

[lysp]

I was running it for both cutting and bulking phases.

Bulking was a bit of a challenge - trying to get 3200 cals into 3 meals, but doable (with a bit of "non clean" food).

 

[evo]

It's not an either/or thing in my view. If used sensibly, there is no reason you can't 'bulk' on IF without the accompanying fat.

 

[evo]

I was running it for both cutting and bulking phases.

Bulking was a bit of a challenge - trying to get 3200 cals into 3 meals, but doable (with a bit of "non clean" food).

That;s why I really like raw fruit and veggie juicing in between meals: macro and micro nutrient dense but easy to consume and digest.

 

[Bazzar]

Some great reading in this. Not sure if it has been posted before.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting

 

[lysp]

That;s why I really like raw fruit and veggie juicing in between meals: macro and micro nutrient dense but easy to consume and digest.

My meal structure was basically:

Lunch: 2 x wraps with chicken breast, cheese + salad
Dinner: Alternate between 95% mince hamburgers, spaghetti or steak + veges.
Dessert: 1/4 light fruit cake, 1/4 light custard

 

[saj_21]

Gday gents, i could use some advice, first of all some basic info on me and my goals.

Weighed myself in late October and tipped the scales at 86.5 kg im 178 cm tall and have never been overweight or out of shape until to much maccas/kfc and beer tipped me over the edge in the last 18 months. I switched to the paelo diet with plenty of exercise (gym/cardio) and dropped 10 kg, just before xmas, but with that, work break up and holidays i'm around 80 kg as i type this.

I play local footy so the diet and exercise regime has come from the desire to improve my footy, also to feel and loot a bit better.

As of next week my training schedule looks as follows;

Monday - footy training
Tuesday - gym (legs, back, chest, shoulders x 2 exercises and triceps/bicpes x 1)
Wednesday - footy training
Thursday - rest
Friday - gym (legs, back x 3 exercises, bicep x 1)
Saturday - gym (chest, shoulders x 3 exercises triceps x 1)
Sunday - rest

I also run to the gym 2 or 3 times a week it is a 6km round trip, and do some core when i'm motivated or do some ab classes at my gym.

Now i have read this thread and a bit of information on IF, i am keen to give it a go and have been doing the 16/8 split since Monday, which i'm coping with at the moment, whilst still sticking to a 90% paleo diet.

My goals where originally to drop weight, and get stronger, fitter, faster which i have done. I suppose the next stage is a bit more superficial and wanting to get the body in better shape, and still in improve my fitness and strength (getting big isn't a priority). Which from doing a bit of reading the lennigans 16/8 split might be the best bet. My goal would be to maintain a weight of 77kg, and keep improving my lifts. My fasting hours are usually from 6/6:30 pm to 10:30/11 am.

I do work from 7am to 4 pm, so working out in the afternoon/night is my only option apart from weekends. A question i have is with the BCAA intake is it still worth it considering i will be wokring out with some food in my system.

Also i take some YORHealth suppliments, a mate works for them so get a good deal. I take a multi-vitamin, muscle repair, digest ultra and probiotic also take super greens, fibre plus in powder form.

I would appreciate your thoughts and ideas on how i can improve my current regime/diet or anything i can change to improve, i'm a bit of a novice in this field so happy for the feedback, so fire away! thanks in advance.

 

[evo]

Sounds to me like you have a great regime set up.Doing Paleo and taking probiotics wouild be getting you super healthy.

From your post it is not quite clear when you are taking the BCAAs. Given that you you are not working out fasted I wouldn't bother taking them at all. The reason Leangains recommends you take a BCAA prior to working out as it is a bit of a cheat way to continue your fast(10g BCAA is only 40 calories) while still being protective of your muscles during the workout.

I reckon you should keep doing what you are currently doing. If you find you plateau with your fat losses, either stretch your fasting each day a little longer, say don't eat till until 1PM, or cut back a little more on your calories. Given you are trying to build muscle, I'd do the former.

If you want to be even more aggressive, perhaps on a Sunday, which is one of your rest days go a full 24 hour fast - even better if you could do some light cardio while you're fasted as well ( but not essential). You can really make some killer losses like that I found and it won't hurt your muscles gains one bit.

 

[He_Beast]

how do you adjust your intake if you do a 24 hour fast? Do you take in more calories on subsequent days or just act as if you didn't do it?

 

[evo]

just act as if you didn't do it. Rest of the week is the same.

 

[Bazzar]

Anyone know if their is, or if it is permited to take some form of post workout protien? Its the thing im finding hard after my 4th day not having a 7am feed when i get back from the gym (protien drink/then shower/ then coffee and chicken/turkey based breaky) im feeling very light headed and dizzy but it goes away after 2 hours.

Apart from that so far so good and i have lost the bloating fat feeling from excessive Xmas overindulgence.
Im going 7/17 and in 2 weeks will go 6/18 then 2 weeks lated will settle on 5/19 for as long as i can, maybe for good.

 

[evo]

When is your fasting window, Bazaar? ideally you want to take in protein fairly soon after every workout; it is when you are most primed for muscle protein synthesis (ie building muscle)

If you want to continue your fast after the workout i'd probably have a scoop of whey with water( or BCAA)