Opinion Is father-son access going to heavily dictate the next decade of premiers?

[Caligo]

Father sons? Highly doubt it.

Levi Ashcroft should be top 3 next year. Just how many free picks do you want?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

How many AFL players are from QLD and how many are from Vic? You can call it a level playing field all you like. It isn't one. It won't be for at least 50 years, when the top ranked team can actually have a home grand final.

Explain based off the rules of the draft and trading landscape what you believe is unfair. I am yet to hear a single thing that is unfair about the rules.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

At this point I don't even think he believes what he is saying. He read about equality of outcomes vs equality of opportunity in libertarian vogue and wants to spout off.

I am just pointing it out as you seem to confuse the two concepts

 

[Caligo]

Explain based off the rules of the draft and trading landscape what you believe is unfair. I am yet to hear a single thing that is unfair about the rules.

The fact that two clubs can't get father sons sounds pretty unfair. But you already knew that you are just a troll.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The fact that two clubs can't get father sons sounds pretty unfair. But you already knew that you are just a troll.

Again… just a matter of time till that is fixed up.

So that’s essentially it?? Just a waiting game till GCS and GWS have some eligible and potentially have 1-2 good ones every several decades or so like other teams

 

[Caligo]

Again… just a matter of time till that is fixed up.

So that’s essentially it?? Just a waiting game till GCS and GWS have some eligible and potentially have 1-2 good ones every several decades or so like other teams

Absolutely not. Just the most obvious way you are talking out of your arse.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

The best defence is tradition and that it is a special and unique part of the heritage of our game. The question is whether that is enough to keep it?

You're right its tradition so its safe for now.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Absolutely not. Just the most obvious way you are talking out of your arse.

Well go ahead then?? What are they. You can’t come up with anything

 

[mpal6]

Levi Ashcroft should be top 3 next year. Just how many free picks do you want?

I've already counted Ashcroft x2 in my initial post. You mentioned a few in the pipeline, hence I was curious.

I'm not aware of anymore father sons beyond Ashcroft next year.

 

[Caligo]

I've already counted Ashcroft x2 in my initial post. You mentioned a few in the pipeline, hence I was curious.

I'm not aware of anymore father sons beyond Ashcroft next year.

Well there is one other father son you are likely to end up with even though his father only played 41 games for your club.

 

[mpal6]

Well there is one other father son you are likely to end up with even though his father only played 41 games for your club.

3 years is a long time in footy. We won't have a home ground shortly and will be living like nomads as we get close to Olympics prep. Hodge family knows which will be a more stable option.

 

[rye]

How many players did GWS lose this offseason?? How many do you think they will lose the next few off seasons??

GWS lost hopper, taranto and bruhn in the 2022 offseason. extremely dishonest framing of the question to limit it purely to 2023.

 

[mpal6]

GWS lost hopper, taranto and bruhn in the 2022 offseason. extremely dishonest framing of the question to limit it purely to 2023.

Lot of clubs got their bite of GWS cherry. Just highlighting a few below - there is heaps which got traded and didn't even make it.

Cadwell, Shiel - Essendon
Taranto, Hopper - Richmond
Bruhn, Cameron - Geelong
Steele - St.Kilda
Treloar, Adams - Collingwood
Marchbank, Williams, Kennedy - Carlton
Lobb, McCarthy, Wilson - Fremantle

 

[PaythePerryman]

Bobby Hill pretty handy too

 

[geelong_crazy26]

GWS lost hopper, taranto and bruhn in the 2022 offseason. extremely dishonest framing of the question to limit it purely to 2023.

My point more being they seem a very settled and strong unit now and I believe they are in for a period of success now. I am backing them to have a period of tilting for a flag and keeping the group together under Kingsley much like Brisbane has become under fagan.

Was Brisbane a victim of equality who needed concessions?? At the end of the day Brisbane put their big boy pants on, took blame for the issues at the club and transformed it into one of the current destination clubs in the AFL under fagan. I applaud and respect that. Gold Coast can do the exact same.

The clubs need to accept and take blame instead of blaming other circumstances and putting their hands out.

 

[GC2015]

Good job putting that together, but why so selective with your period??

You requested a list comparing F/S and northern academy picks during the 2021-23 time period and said you were happy to discuss the impact both rules had during that period of time if such a list of produced. It took a while to compile that information for three years so I can only imagine the time required to put together information for 10+ years.

Without spending crazy amounts of time putting a post together, I'll try to give some cliff notes that I suspect will provide some context on the information you're seeking. Were there top 10 F/S picks between 2012-2020? Yes - Daniher, McDonald and Moore were all drafted with top 10 picks. Were there multiple F/S picks taken in the national draft in those years? Yes - 5 F/S picks were taken in the ND in 2014 as an example.

This has been going on for a while with both rules producing quality and quantity of draft prospects each year but the last three years in particular seem to suggest that the F/S rule has suddenly become far more advantageous and influential than it used to be.

 

[Caligo]

3 years is a long time in footy. We won't have a home ground shortly and will be living like nomads as we get close to Olympics prep. Hodge family knows which will be a more stable option.

I hope so. The idea you guys introduced him to the game when he had already been selected for the state team is just ludicrous. Hopefully the rules are changed.

 

[Freomaniac]

It is a rule that favours established teams.

New franchises get given their own start up concessions and special draft access.

Father-son is about family links, sons of fathers playing for the same club.

If a club is new, there is no father son link.

But the AFL bastardised the rule and made it a did a kids Dad play some games for a club based in the state where an AFL team was entered...and then those supporters sooked it up as the rules were different to clubs where the Dad actually played games for the club.

Once a club is established, father son applies exactly the same to all clubs.

Just have to be patient.

That last line is a bit hilarious. lol

the bastardization of Bigfooty.

 

[doppleganger]

That last line is a bit hilarious. lol

the bastardization of Bigfooty.

The sooking is hilarious. It is unfair that SA and WA teams missed out on kids of fathers who played 0 games for their clubs.

New AFL expansion clubs would obviously have no AFL family heritage.

That means a newly created club like Adelaide would have no father-son options until their first generation of players start having kids.

So instead they campaign for an additional "state of origin" eligibility allowance to be added to the rule, and then sook about how it is unfair that the games eligibility criteria is different to actual father-son games, conveniently ignoring that the father played 0 games for the Adelaide Crows, Fremantle Dockers or WC Eagles.

 

[GC2015]

The sooking is hilarious. It is unfair that SA and WA teams missed out on kids of fathers who played 0 games for their clubs.

New AFL expansion clubs would obviously have no AFL family heritage.

That means a newly created club like Adelaide would have no father-son options until their first generation of players start having kids.

So instead they campaign for an additional "state of origin" eligibility allowance to be added to the rule, and then sook about how it is unfair that the games eligibility criteria is different to actual father-son games, conveniently ignoring that the father played 0 games for the Adelaide Crows, Fremantle Dockers or WC Eagles.

You do realise the reality of your response is incredibly one sided, right? A Collingwood supporter is telling a Fremantle supporter to "be patient" while the Pies have drafted 15 F/S players (5 of which were top 20 picks) and have competed in 6 Grand Finals since the Dockers were introduced into the AFL. Every GF appearance for Collingwood over that time period has included F/S picks, 8/15 Collingwood father-son picks have competed in at least 1 GF over those years and 5/15 father-son picks for Collingwood have become premiership players since 1995 when Freo entered the league. Fremantle have had just 1 F/S pick since they entered the league and played in 1 losing GF in 2013. Their only F/S pick did not compete in their only GF appearance.

There's an inherent F/S advantage that exists for Victorian teams because they've been in the league longer and it's not hard to see Collingwood have been a big beneficiary of the father-son rule so of course you're going to downplay any questions that potentially jeopardise that.

 

[Caligo]

You do realise the reality of your response is incredibly one sided, right? A Collingwood supporter is telling a Fremantle supporter to "be patient" while the Pies have drafted 15 F/S players (5 of which were top 20 picks) and have competed in 6 Grand Finals since the Dockers were introduced into the AFL. Every GF appearance for Collingwood over that time period has included F/S picks, 8/15 Collingwood father-son picks have competed in at least 1 GF over those years and 5/15 father-son picks for Collingwood have become premiership players since 1995 when Freo entered the league. Fremantle have had just 1 F/S pick since they entered the league and played in 1 losing GF in 2013. Their only F/S pick did not compete in their only GF appearance.

There's an inherent F/S advantage that exists for Victorian teams because they've been in the league longer and it's not hard to see Collingwood have been a big beneficiary of the father-son rule so of course you're going to downplay any questions that potentially jeopardise that.

Obviously Collingwood is an extreme example but as you said, it will be a long time before Fremantle have had the full opportunity that older clubs have with respect to father sons. Jack Hawkins was playing vfl 50 years ago. That is the sort of time frame you need to fully realise father son potential. Once every club in the league is at least 50 years old we can say father son is fair for all.

 

[tombomb]

Nearly all the heat of this issue would go away if teams had to pay a fair price when these players are available.

And that could be resolved almost immediately by increasing the points value of higher picks and removing the discount.

If teams are paying a fair price to match bids, then it really shouldn't matter that much about who gets access to what.

 

[doppleganger]

You do realise the reality of your response is incredibly one sided, right?

If talking 2023 it is 16 sided.

A Collingwood supporter is telling a Fremantle supporter to "be patient" while the Pies have drafted 15 F/S players (5 of which were top 20 picks) and have competed in 6 Grand Finals since the Dockers were introduced into the AFL. Every GF appearance for Collingwood over that time period has included F/S picks, 8/15 Collingwood father-son picks have competed in at least 1 GF over those years and 5/15 father-son picks for Collingwood have become premiership players since 1995 when Freo entered the league. Fremantle have had just 1 F/S pick since they entered the league and played in 1 losing GF in 2013. Their only F/S pick did not compete in their only GF appearance.

Herp derp, Freo have made poor list mamangement decisions.

There's an inherent F/S advantage that exists for Victorian teams because they've been in the league longer

It isnt Victorian.

Adelaide Crows and Brisbane Lions have the same advantae over GWS.

Lnd it's not hard to see Collingwood have been a big beneficiary of the father-son rule so of course you're going to downplay any questions that potentially jeopardise that.

I think they need to change the matching criteira for tge unicorns - Hawkins, Daicos, Darcy, Ashcroft.

Paying 4 3rd rounders doesnt cut the mustard. Tweak it so you have to give up a 1st rounder plus extra.

But LOL at SA fans who think they should be entitled to any SA kid even if their Dad played 0 games for Adelaide Crows or the Power.

 

[Freomaniac]

Obviously Collingwood is an extreme example but as you said, it will be a long time before Fremantle have had the full opportunity that older clubs have with respect to father sons. Jack Hawkins was playing vfl 50 years ago. That is the sort of time frame you need to fully realise father son potential. Once every club in the league is at least 50 years old we can say father son is fair for all.

So..... Is this another logical reason why Fremantle Dockers won't ever win the flag?

 

[Freomaniac]

The sooking is hilarious. It is unfair that SA and WA teams missed out on kids of fathers who played 0 games for their clubs.

New AFL expansion clubs would obviously have no AFL family heritage.

That means a newly created club like Adelaide would have no father-son options until their first generation of players start having kids.

So instead they campaign for an additional "state of origin" eligibility allowance to be added to the rule, and then sook about how it is unfair that the games eligibility criteria is different to actual father-son games, conveniently ignoring that the father played 0 games for the Adelaide Crows, Fremantle Dockers or WC Eagles.

Sadly we must uphold the traditional values of Victorian sides like Collingwood to win the flag LoL