Opinion Is father-son access going to heavily dictate the next decade of premiers?

[Greendogg5]

Ablett is argued and debated as the greatest player of all time, Franklin is just considered a modern day great of our game. I don’t consider them both even.

And yes, you got screwed also with Franklin. Not sure how that alters anything I said with how geelong has been bent over more than anyone in regards to the expansion teams.

Losing ablett for pick 7 and 15 in his prime was like selling the Mona Lisa for 100m at auction when it’s worth probably 900m-1B dollars. Crazy stuff.

We should have been given picks 1,2 in the draft for ablett.

Nothing biased about this take...

 

[Caligo]

So..... Is this another logical reason why Fremantle Dockers won't ever win the flag?

I didn't mean it that way. I was only saying the league isn't "fair" and you can't just have 1 set of rules like some people are arguing for. Special circumstances need to be considered. I would be comfortable with the WA clubs having a modification to their NGA eligibility for example.

 

[doppleganger]

You do realise the reality of your response is incredibly one sided, right?

The correct side.

Every GF appearance for Collingwood over that time period has included F/S picks, 8/15 Collingwood father-son picks have competed in at least 1 GF over those years and 5/15 father-son picks for Collingwood have become premiership players since 1995 when Freo entered the league. Fremantle have had just 1 F/S pick since they entered the league and played in 1 losing GF in 2013. Their only F/S pick did not compete in their only GF appearance.

No s**t. Fremantle were a new AFL expansion team, they had no family link when they started.

It will take a generation for the first group of players to notch up 100 games for Freo and have kids.

There's an inherent F/S advantage that exists for Victorian teams because they've been in the league longer and it's not hard to see Collingwood have been a big beneficiary of the father-son rule so of course you're going to downplay any questions that potentially jeopardise that.

Again no s**t.

The point of father-son rule is building the family heritage link.

New AFL expansion clubs had no past players, so in reality have to wait 20+ years to have sons of fathers become eligible.

Now that the AFL expansion teams are established you have Brisbane getting elite F/S picks, and Port the most overall F/S players added in last 5 years.

It is no longer a Victorian biased rule...but yes the new AFL expansion teams - GC and GWS - are still waiting to benefit from F/S.

All the AFL needs to do is tweak the bidding system for the unicorn top 10 style F/S picks - N.Daicos, Ashcroft, Darcy - if they are being bid on in top5 of draft the club must at least keep their own first round draft pick and use that to match (plus the extras).

 

[peetoo]

The correct side.

No s**t. Fremantle were a new AFL expansion team, they had no family link when they started.

It will take a generation for the first group of players to notch up 100 games for Freo and have kids.

Again no s**t.

The point of father-son rule is building the family heritage link.

New AFL expansion clubs had no past players, so in reality have to wait 20+ years to have sons of fathers become eligible.

Now that the AFL expansion teams are established you have Brisbane getting elite F/S picks, and Port the most overall F/S players added in last 5 years.

It is no longer a Victorian biased rule...but yes the new AFL expansion teams - GC and GWS - are still waiting to benefit from F/S.

All the AFL needs to do is tweak the bidding system for the unicorn top 10 style F/S picks - N.Daicos, Ashcroft, Darcy - if they are being bid on in top5 of draft the club must at least keep their own first round draft pick and use that to match (plus the extras).

They would have to apply that to academy kids too

 

[doppleganger]

They would have to apply that to academy kids too

Yep.

AFL/VFL have been constantly tweaking thr F/S and academy rules.

A pretty obvious update is something along the lines of scrapping the 20% discount for first round bids (they are gun kids, why give a discount?) and when matching you can only match with 2 draft picks.

So a bid comes at pick 4, current system for Daicos the Pies had enough points with 38, 40, 42 and 44...tweak it and the Pies would need to use say pick 10 AND pick 30 to match.

Much closer to fair value for a known star kid.

The later round bids, just leave as is.

 

[peetoo]

So no team can dominate first round without trading up?

Eagles a very poor last, need talent, second pick #30. It’s not supposed to work like that

 

[doppleganger]

So no team can dominate first round without trading up?

The AFL will still provide compensation and priority picks.

When/if Tassie enter they will also get the big draft concessions.

Eagles a very poor last, need talent, second pick #30. It’s not supposed to work like that

In my scenario, teams need to actually use first round picks when matching a bid. Not a glut of 3rd rounders.

So the second round will start closer to pick 20.

It forces clubs too potentially use a future first rounder or trade players to obtain draft collateral.

Not the current inane situation where clubs give away a first rounder for the 3rd rounders...will flip it on its head.

Last year, Gold Coast should have used its pick 7 to get the extra future 1st it needed in this years draft...instead of giving it away for nothing (Bowes salary dump) to Geelong.

 

[GC2015]

So no team can dominate first round without trading up?

Eagles a very poor last, need talent, second pick #30. It’s not supposed to work like that

This is why there's a restriction on the amount of first round bids a northern academy team can match if they make the finals. That way you're ensuring the lower ranked teams are more likely to end up with higher rated draft talent, which is in line with the purpose of the draft. As an example, the Suns finished bottom 4 this year and were able to match three top 15 bids for academy players, but if the Suns had finished top 4 this year then they would have only been able to match one of those three bids and two top 15 talents would have been drafted elsewhere and West Coast's second round pick goes from #30 to #28. As a point of difference, Brisbane were a top 4 team in 2022 when they were able to match two F/S bids inside the top 12 picks because the same restriction does not exist with the F/S rule. If the same restriction was in place for the F/S rule then West Coast's second round pick last year would have gone from #23 to #22.

It's a compromised draft system and there are key differences between the F/S & northern academies rules as pointed out above. So it's not a question of whether it's compromised, it's more a question of how much compromise are we willing to overlook in favour of F/S romanticism & growth of the game in QLD/NSW.

 

[gungho]

It would be awesome if the AFL was a fair competition. Unfortunately, it is not.
Father/Son.
Priority picks.
Totally shonky fixture with some teams playing dud teams twice.
MCG grand final for the next 50 years (name me one other sport in the world where this happens).
Teams playing 18 games (of 23) on their home turf.
the list goes on and on.

 

[Caligo]

It would be awesome if the AFL was a fair competition. Unfortunately, it is not.
Father/Son.
Priority picks.
Totally shonky fixture with some teams playing dud teams twice.
MCG grand final for the next 50 years (name me one other sport in the world where this happens).
Teams playing 18 games (of 23) on their home turf.
the list goes on and on.

It isn’t fair, but we can try to have different rules to balance it. For the WA clubs, the most unfair thing is really hard to do anything about (the sheer amount of travel hours).

 

[go_the_dockers]

It isn’t fair, but we can try to have different rules to balance it. For the WA clubs, the most unfair thing is really hard to do anything about (the sheer amount of travel hours).

Grand final?
Father son?
Nga?
Marquee time slots?
Home grown talent percentage?

 

[Pistol Night]

Peter Daicos has had a vasectomy. We've done our part

 

[Caligo]

Grand final?
Father son?
Nga?
Marquee time slots?
Home grown talent percentage?

Nga isn't something you can complain about. You are one of very few clubs to have gotten a top 10 nga.

And don't talk to me about marquee time slots. Even when hawthorn was good we rarely got the best times, and now we are absolutely hard locked into Sunday afternoons. Our times are even worse than yours despite being the most successful club in decades.

Having to fly so bloody far most week really sucks though. That is really unfair and there is very little we can do about it.

Grand final at the MCG for half a century is straight up corruption, but it has never in history effected your club. Your one grand final should have been at the MCG anyway (hawthorn was the minor premier and didn't lose any finals games).

 

[76woodenspooners]

Quite a few. My club and the Pies F/S players are probably the most visible (off the top of my head) but both clubs have taken a lot of F/S who didn't make it - and were pretty iffy draft selections even at the discount.

Indeed.

People point to Collingwood having Moore and the Daicos brothers.

But they don’t mention Collingwood got Josh at pick 57.

Or that Will Kelly was a bust at pick 29.

 

[doppleganger]

Indeed.

People point to Collingwood having Moore and the Daicos brothers.

But they don’t mention Collingwood got Josh at pick 57.

Or that Will Kelly was a bust at pick 29.

Nobody even placed a bid on Josh, none of the other 17 clubs thought he was worth a 3rd rounder, so we just took him with our last pick in the 4th round.

In the same draft, 2016, North bid on Cal Brown which we matched.

 

[Dogflogger]

Who cares if some father sons are duds, they are still discounted compared to non father sons. If you get a good one then your laughing and if its a mediocre/dud father son well at least he was discounted. i'd rather a continuous amount of cheap players than none at all. Collingwood are somehow averaging one every 2 years since drafting them became a thing.

 

[Freomaniac]

Peter Daicos has had a vasectomy. We've done our part

If Fremantle Dockers ever wants any attempt of getting close to finals ever Again.... I think Clive Waterhouse and Jeff Farmer need to pump out kids. lol

 

[Pistol Night]

Who cares if some father sons are duds, they are still discounted compared to non father sons. If you get a good one then your laughing and if its a mediocre/dud father son well at least he was discounted. i'd rather a continuous amount of cheap players than none at all. Collingwood are somehow averaging one every 2 years since drafting them became a thing.

Well tell ya players to root like Collingwood players

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If Fremantle Dockers ever wants any attempt of getting close to finals ever Again.... I think Clive Waterhouse and Jeff Farmer need to pump out kids. lol

Few Pavs would help too.

 

[Son_Of_God29]

It would be awesome if the AFL was a fair competition. Unfortunately, it is not.
Father/Son.
Priority picks.
Totally shonky fixture with some teams playing dud teams twice.
MCG grand final for the next 50 years (name me one other sport in the world where this happens).
Teams playing 18 games (of 23) on their home turf.
the list goes on and on.


Soccer FA Cup Final always played at Wembly

 

[St 07]

Hopefully yes

 

[GC2015]

Indeed.

People point to Collingwood having Moore and the Daicos brothers.

But they don’t mention Collingwood got Josh at pick 57.

Or that Will Kelly was a bust at pick 29.

Don't forget Pick 39 Travis Cloke, Pick 48 Heath Shaw, Pick 18 Rhyce Shaw and Pick 19 Nick Davis who are also Collingwood F/S picks that became premiership players.

 

[Freomaniac]

Few Pavs would help too.

To think Matty Pavlich could of been a crow at the end of 1998. But you guys chose Ken McGregor instead

 

[76woodenspooners]

Don't forget Pick 39 Travis Cloke, Pick 48 Heath Shaw, Pick 18 Rhyce Shaw and Pick 19 Nick Davis who are also Collingwood F/S picks that became premiership players.

Only two of those became Premiership players for the team they were drafted to as F/S, and if you’re going to go that far back …

• Brad Osborne
• Cameron Cloke
• Jason Cloke
• Jaxson Barham
• Brayden Shaw
• Callum Brown
• Tyler Brown
• Will Kelly

… who didn’t become Premiership players for Collingwood.

Like all picks, you win some, you lose some

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

To think Matty Pavlich could of been a crow at the end of 1998. But you guys chose Ken McGregor instead

Moreso we had the opportunity to get Pav back instead of Carey!