Is Mark Blicavs a symptom of what is wrong with the Cats?

thecatattack

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I take your point but has Blicavs ever come close to delivering a hit out like Stanley did at the opening bounce last week, which led to Danger’s goal within 10 seconds?

Stanley’s leap and reach makes him a far more valuable asset in the middle than Blicavs has ever, or will ever, be.
I agree that Stanley is better. I'm just saying that Blitz size isn't a problem.
 

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STPer18

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Under the current regime it's a lot more desirable to be good-to-average at multiple roles as opposed to great at a single, defined role. So what if you're an exceptional inside midfielder, means nothing if you're not a good defender, ordinary midfielder, atrocious ruckman and bog poor tagger. Strings to the bow and all that.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Limited role player?
FB- AA candidate, and B & F.
Utility- B & F.
Ruck.
Tagger, run - with. Great results .
He is hardly limited.

Being used in those roles doesn't equate to him being any good at them or to him not being limited. I would suggest that anyone who is 198cm tall and can run numbers like him would be useful at most clubs irrespective of the level of their football skills and game sense.

He did a great job tagging Pendles one game, he played on Brad Hill in a final on the wing once and got destroyed. He was put into the ruck against North this year and won the game for us. The season he won his first b&f he was great as the third man up.

Anyway, you're still not grasping the gist of my OP. It's not about Blitz or any other player on our my list, it's about the people charged with how we go about our football as a collective.
 
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SkittleCats

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Mark Blicavs, Mark O'Connor, Zach Tuohey, Kolo, Guthrie, Parfitt you could throw a blanket over half a dozen or more players on this list that get regular games because of their supposed versatility that CS loves to reward despite horrible performance. All of whom have suffered because they can never get any stability in their game as a result of Scott throwing them around the ground on any given game. You could even add Hawkins and Taylor to this list.

Yes, he is a symptom of whats wrong with us, but only because what's wrong with us is Chris Scott.
 

Art Vandelay_

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He's not even close, Stewart is streets ahead of him, Harry was, and that's just from our own team.
Even if that is true, and it’s certainly an worthy debate we’re a side that’s hasn’t conceded 100 points all season, last did so in Round 17 last year and has averaged 66 points against. Fair to say our fullback will have been a big part of that
 

Art Vandelay_

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Anyway, you're still not grasping the gist of my OP. It's not about Blitz or any other player on my list, it's about the people charged with how we go about our football as a collective.
A false statement.
He's in the title. Mentioned in the first sentence of the OP and his adherence to his role winning him B&F's over better teammates is critiqued as what's wrong with the club.
I'm not knocking Blicavs, he's a good honest goer, but is he really worthy of being a dual b&f winner?

To me that just reeks of rewarding someone who's playing their role exactly how the coach wants, no matter how limited.

Geelong's list is full of much better and talented footballers, footballers that have played footy from the time they could walk.

He has just as many Carjis as Danger, Ablett Jnr, Enright, Joel Corey, Bill Goggin, Polly Farmer, Bruce Nankervis, Mark Bos, Steven King and Sam Newman.

He has more than Ablett Snr, Scarlett, Chapman, Ling.

Just reflect on that and let it sink in.

The coach has a philosophy and a game style and if you stick to it he will recognise you.

I know Blitz has his detractors on here, but it's not about his performance, it's about the club / coaches rewarding his game because his game is a reflection of what the coaches want.

I could probably add some more, but I'm at work on a tight schedule so will have to leave it at that for now.

Over to you fellow supporters.
I'll take him getting recognised for playing his role over Danger, Kelly, Ablett, Selwood, Stevie J etc etc playing as one way midfielders with no defensive accountability any day. I'll happily see that rewarded over traits that cost us finals year after year after year.

Let's be honest, this was posted hours after a bad finals loss, where the main subject of this thread got beaten by the AA ruckman, where he should have been at FB... but the aforementioned mids again had no accountability, and again lost us another final.

Blicavs isn't what's wrong with Geelong, and even if we take it in the spirit you intended with this thread, i.e, his adherence to his role, then he's still not the problem. Too many don't adhere to their role in this team, and in finals it is regularly our midfielders, who by being our stars again and again and again fly under the radar for off season scrutiny... Unless you are Menegola or Guthrie then it is open season.

HHH, Selwood has been blasted this year as being near the end, yet if you look closer all year he's been trying to be the one mid in setups playing a defensive role. Often playing the negator role at stoppages and centre bounces. Menegola with his endurance similarly performs a more defensive role at stoppages.. Blasted. Guthrie is often assigned someone at stoppages... Blasted.

Clark in the first half of the year had no accountability and just ran like the wind. Was lauded for his run and dare on this board.
Kelly and Dangerfield have no defensive mindset and often have very loose checking of their men, but because they're our flashy AA stars that may win a Brownlow in a couple of weeks it is largely overlooked.
Constable is the most overhyped player on the board because he's great at getting the ball inside. He's in the reserves because defensively he's a passenger who ball watches and doesn't follow his man... The masses have screamed for his recall for weeks.

As per your op "The coach has a philosophy and a game style and if you stick to it he will recognise you." is not the issue or symptom of what is wrong at Geelong. The so called stars who don't play 2 way football is the problem, as is Wells' inability to draft quality ruckmen and small forwards over many many years.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Even if that is true, and it’s certainly an worthy debate we’re a side that’s hasn’t conceded 100 points all season, last did so in Round 17 last year and has averaged 66 points against. Fair to say our fullback will have been a big part of that
You don't think that Stewart is a better defender than Blicavs?
 

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Art Vandelay_

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You don't think that Stewart is a better defender than Blicavs?
I do, but that doesn't mean he's not great in his own right.
That we only had one defender in the AA team is a joke given how well we defend. We even defended well last night.

I'd have had Stewart, Blicavs and Taylor in the 40 and one of Taylor/Blicavs in the team over McGovern.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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A false statement.
He's in the title. Mentioned in the first sentence of the OP and his adherence to his role winning him B&F's over better teammates is critiqued as what's wrong with the club.


I'll take him getting recognised for playing his role over Danger, Kelly, Ablett, Selwood, Stevie J etc etc playing as one way midfielders with no defensive accountability any day. I'll happily see that rewarded over traits that cost us finals year after year after year.

Let's be honest, this was posted hours after a bad finals loss, where the main subject of this thread got beaten by the AA ruckman, where he should have been at FB... but the aforementioned mids again had no accountability, and again lost us another final.

Blicavs isn't what's wrong with Geelong, and even if we take it in the spirit you intended with this thread, i.e, his adherence to his role, then he's still not the problem. Too many don't adhere to their role in this team, and in finals it is regularly our midfielders, who by being our stars again and again and again fly under the radar for off season scrutiny... Unless you are Menegola or Guthrie then it is open season.

HHH, Selwood has been blasted this year as being near the end, yet if you look closer all year he's been trying to be the one mid in setups playing a defensive role. Often playing the negator role at stoppages and centre bounces. Menegola with his endurance similarly performs a more defensive role at stoppages.. Blasted. Guthrie is often assigned someone at stoppages... Blasted.

Clark in the first half of the year had no accountability and just ran like the wind. Was lauded for his run and dare on this board.
Kelly and Dangerfield have no defensive mindset and often have very loose checking of their men, but because they're our flashy AA stars that may win a Brownlow in a couple of weeks it is largely overlooked.
Constable is the most overhyped player on the board because he's great at getting the ball inside. He's in the reserves because defensively he's a passenger who ball watches and doesn't follow his man... The masses have screamed for his recall for weeks.

As per your op "The coach has a philosophy and a game style and if you stick to it he will recognise you." is not the issue or symptom of what is wrong at Geelong. The so called stars who don't play 2 way football is the problem, as is Wells' inability to draft quality ruckmen and small forwards over many many years.
At no stage have I said he's the problem, the problem is the people that vote for him and what they perceive as being the best way of winning games of football and ultimately finals / premierships and you don't win it with 22 footballers with limited footballing ability and limited game smarts.
 

Art Vandelay_

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At no stage have I said he's the problem, the problem is the people that vote for him and what they perceive as being the best way of winning games of football and ultimately finals / premierships and you don't win it with 22 footballers with limited footballing ability and limited game smarts.
and we don't have that?
We have stars throughout the side, and frankly as defenders Stewart, Taylor and Blicavs are in that category.

but time and time again, the midfield stars + whatever donkey Scott puts in the ruck cost us finals. I'd happily not see these one way runner being perceived by the coaches as winning us finals with their voting. I wouldn't even give Dangerfield my 5 votes last night. Taylor and Menegola were better. Dangerfield paid his man no respect. Adams 26 and 2 goals. Treloar 28 and 6 clearances. Pendlebury 24 and a goal (which was from his man not following him at the stoppage). Sidebottom 33 and a goal.

Our mids are regularly those that are rated, and seemingly the stars you think should be rewarded with coaches voting of what they think wins us games. They lost us the game last night, along with Scott dropping Stanley.

I have no issue with how Blicavs was perceived internally in 2018. His performances in defence helped us win games, and he was fairly rewarded for it on B&F night.
 

Vdubs

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Mark Blicavs, Mark O'Connor, Zach Tuohey, Kolo, Guthrie, Parfitt you could throw a blanket over half a dozen or more players on this list that get regular games because of their supposed versatility that CS loves to reward despite horrible performance. All of whom have suffered because they can never get any stability in their game as a result of Scott throwing them around the ground on any given game. You could even add Hawkins and Taylor to this list.

Yes, he is a symptom of whats wrong with us, but only because what's wrong with us is Chris Scott.
Show us the alternatives to those players.
We are not deep.
If we play Parsons, Simpson, Fogarty, Buzza, Constable, Abbott, Fort, Smith, Hendo instead, how good are we?
Even Duncan, supposedly one of our guns, coughed the ball up horribly at times before the knee.
 

Vdubs

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Blicavs has always been an extremely poor ruck. He’s not big enough, strong enough or smart enough. He can pinch hit there for a patch here or there but I’m struggling to remember a single match in his career where he definitively outplayed his opponent in the ruck.

I am 100% certain would have beaten Brisbane recently if Stanley was in the ruck, given Stef Martin’s BOG last quarter and the handful of stoppage goals the Lions kicked courtesy of Martin.

Blicavs is also a very good defender, in the best handful of KPDs in the league evidenced by his AA squad selection this year.

Why we continually weaken our backline to weaken our ruck stocks is beyond me. Absolutely beyond me.
Who was Blicavs required to play on yesterday if he was a FB?
Collingwood has a very quick, short, mobile forward line.
It was a potentially smart predictable move given the forecast. It didn't turn out well for us.
I would have preferred Taylor out with Stanley playing for this game, but not to be.
 

Vdubs

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Simple question.

Do you think he has performed well in finals or performed poorly?

To me the evidence is very strong that regularly fails under finals pressure. Particularly if played as a ruckman or midfielder.*

(* - 2013 Qualifying Final, 2013 Preliminary Final, 2014 First Semi Final, 2016 Preliminary Final, 2017 Qualifying Final, 2017 Preliminary Final, 2018 Elimination Final, 2019 Qualifying Final as evidence. Perhaps they were exceptions.)
You have no respect for Blic, we know that, no matter what my reply, you'll have stats and your opinion to fall back on.
I think he puts in every week, 110%, and most times we are successful. When he gets beaten by a superior player, you drag up those games as your evidence.
2013 we missed Simpson, nobody else would have made a scrap of difference v 211.
 

fpm84

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Who was Blicavs required to play on yesterday if he was a FB?
Collingwood has a very quick, short, mobile forward line.
It was a potentially smart predictable move given the forecast. It didn't turn out well for us.
I would have preferred Taylor out with Stanley playing for this game, but not to be.
Sorry dubs, it wasn’t a potentially smart move. It was diabolical when it was rumoured on Thursday evening, and even worse when it was confirmed 90 minutes before the bounce when there was no rain on the horizon and conditions were dry.

Blicavs would have been a good matchup for Mihocek who in any case didn’t do much against us. Regardless, this is the second qualifying final in a row when we’ve drastically altered our side at the last minute in reactive fear of our opponent’s line up.

In 2017 we took out one of our only dangerous forwards in Menzel, replaces by Zach Guthrie, because we were terrified about Richmond’s small forwards. Zuthrie played well on Rioli but that wasn’t the point. We unsettled our forward line, made life harder for Hawkins, and missed Menzel’s x-factor and creativity particularly in the third quarter when we were dominating them and scores were basically level.

Last nights decision was worse still. Let’s give Grundy a free reign in the ruck (I have no doubt Rhys would have at least made him accountable and would have made himself a forward threat at times)... while we also weaken our backline.

If we were so worried about Collingwood’s forwards we could have left out Taylor or Kolo as you say. Or, better yet, we could actually back our ability to pressure their mids into bombing the ball inside 50 where our tall defenders thrive and like they did to us.

It was a weak and cowardly decision and the club must be held accountable for it.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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You watching with your eyes closed?

Scarlett, Enright, Milburn, and Mackie were better.

And that's just dudes who played a decade ago.

Taylor at his best was better too.
I reckon he's the best NON 'Bombers' Boys' defender we've had since... well, I liked Bluey McGrath. Sholly was good down back. Hinkley of course. Tim Darcy went alright.

But yeah nah, Stewart seems like he might beat all but ScEnBurnIe!!
 

Geelong_Sicko

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It was a weak and cowardly decision and the club must be held accountable for it.
I agree with your post 100% but I reckon 'weak' and 'cowardly' aren't quite the right words. 'Stupid' and 'arrogant' seem a bit more fitting. They should be held accountable in any case.

Does anyone know how it works before a game? Does the coach consult the match committee? Do they have to sit down like jurors until they all agree? Does the coach hold powers of veto over the match committee?

Just who f*cked up here?
 

Partridge

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You have no respect for Blic, we know that, no matter what my reply, you'll have stats and your opinion to fall back on.
I think he puts in every week, 110%, and most times we are successful. When he gets beaten by a superior player, you drag up those games as your evidence.
2013 we missed Simpson, nobody else would have made a scrap of difference v 211.
It’s not like you to duck questions.

And I have admitted when he’s played well, particularly in the last two seasons, having found his niche as a key defender. Whether I respect him or not is irrelevant.
 

dazbroncos

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Sorry dubs, it wasn’t a potentially smart move. It was diabolical when it was rumoured on Thursday evening, and even worse when it was confirmed 90 minutes before the bounce when there was no rain on the horizon and conditions were dry.

Blicavs would have been a good matchup for Mihocek who in any case didn’t do much against us. Regardless, this is the second qualifying final in a row when we’ve drastically altered our side at the last minute in reactive fear of our opponent’s line up.

In 2017 we took out one of our only dangerous forwards in Menzel, replaces by Zach Guthrie, because we were terrified about Richmond’s small forwards. Zuthrie played well on Rioli but that wasn’t the point. We unsettled our forward line, made life harder for Hawkins, and missed Menzel’s x-factor and creativity particularly in the third quarter when we were dominating them and scores were basically level.

Last nights decision was worse still. Let’s give Grundy a free reign in the ruck (I have no doubt Rhys would have at least made him accountable and would have made himself a forward threat at times)... while we also weaken our backline.


If we were so worried about Collingwood’s forwards we could have left out Taylor or Kolo as you say. Or, better yet, we could actually back our ability to pressure their mids into bombing the ball inside 50 where our tall defenders thrive and like they did to us.

It was a weak and cowardly decision and the club must be held accountable for it.
THIS X 100000000000

Post of the Millenium and well fu** it.. last Millenium too.

Nail it.

GO Catters
 

Mr Meow

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If he serves up the same garbage under finals pressure (again) as last night it doesn't help at all.
I've said it a few times but mature agers that either started late or broke into AFL teams late seem to be particularly exposed in finals. Stewart, with his first great finals performance on Friday, was the only one to provide evidence to the contrary. Menegola wasn't colossal but his effectiveness also seemed to finally match his H&A matches - he didn't seem to fussed by the occasion this time anyway.

Blicavs, for one reason or another, has not played good finals. Kelly has been okay but not stellar.

There is at least some evidence that the "plug and play" types will not actually be ready to impact finals right away. The draftees take longer to develop but by that stage seem to have less "finals shock". Highly subjective from a small data set, but it's what I feel. Same as blokes traded in, playing in a new system. Works fine in H&A but the cohesiveness required in finals under pressure is greater - and this is where the lack of unity can be exposed. Exceptions to this rule are when it is an incredibly experienced and capable group such as Hawthorn early 2010s - that could add a couple each year who would slot in seamlessly.
 

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