List Mgmt. Is there room for Jacobs and ROB in the side?

[CrowBloke]

1) Depending on the weather conditions I believe there is a case to play both rucks against certain teams. The teams that come to my mind are Port, Carlton ,Geelong, Hawthorn or North Melbourne.
2) It was all about match ups,giving the opposition a different look from Jacobs normal ruck work and putting games into ROB.
3) However the consensus from nearly every poster was a definitive no, this was not a popular suggestion.
4) I thought Port's big men would give us trouble but we beat them without the inclusion of ROB, so it's was hard to argue with success.
5) ... for the record a yes from me and Blighty.

1) Agree with all but Carlton
2) "games into ROB" is what he needs. Would increase his value for trade too.
3) Yep, here too, see above
4) Yep, same. Maybe Round 20?? (can't see it, but)
5) cheers, no higher recommendation than from Blighty

 

[Mike Smyth]

No. Neither are versatile enough.

 

[dogs105]

Not if JJ is still in the team

 

[Mismatched]

Not if JJ is still in the team

Even then, Otten, Himmelberg, Dear, Keath and Lynch as 2nd ruck are still better options than 2x dinosaur ruckman.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The only way ROB plays in the same team as Jacobs, is if we use him mainly as a defender on a really tall forward/2nd ruckman & he follows him in the ruck.

However, likely we have better tall defensive options.

We can't have either Jacobs or ROB playing most of the game forward as would take way too much away from the best forward line in the AFL. Just need to see how Otten didn't gel with JJ & Tex to realise adding a ruckman would be worse.

 

[Redleg Crow]

Shouldn't we first ask if ROB is good enough yet to play AFL?

 

[John Who]

The key issue I think is the restricted number of interchanges we can have per game, which makes it hard for a team to pick 2 ruckmen, as you would be one short of a runner-type player. Less running players would mean overall the team will run out of legs quicker than the other team, which is a severe disadvantage in the last quarter.

 

[CrowBloke]

We can't have either Jacobs or ROB playing most of the game forward as would take way too much away from the best forward line in the AFL. Just need to see how Ottens didn't gel with JJ & Tex to realise adding a ruckman would be worse.

Yeah, really good point.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

I'd say there is more chance of the Crows playing no recognised ruckman in the team, rather than 2 recognised ruckman. With 2 KPFs already in the team, we don't need a third up there applying little defensive pressure. It was bad enough with Otten down there, yet it would be worse with Jacobs or ROB there instead.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

I'd say there is more chance of the Crows playing no recognised ruckman in the team, rather than 2 recognised ruckman. With 2 KPFs already in the team, we don't need a third up there applying little defensive pressure. It was bad enough with Otten down there, yet it would be worse with Jacobs or ROB there instead.

This. If Jacobs went down JJ and Otten could share the ruck duties and offer more flexibility (assuming Hartigan comes back in to the side). Melbourne were hardly impacted with Gawn out and Freo similarly with Sandilands out....so I think over time the slowish tap-ruck types will be moved on for more mobile types.

 

[CrowBloke]

With 2 KPFs already in the team, we don't need a third up there applying little defensive pressure.

....so I think over time the slowish tap-ruck types will be moved on for more mobile types.

Your replies are the reason I enjoy these discussions so much. I had not considered that at all and you're both right .
I like Jacobs, who seems to be tireless and tries his guts out, but his defensive pressure is weak <== and that's a kindness.
Anyway, your comments made me re-think the whole ruckman concept, entirely , especially wrt to more mobile types which will strengthen any team's game.
Thinking further on from that, when's the last time a ruckman was a consistent match-winner (eg like Dangerfield), a Brownlow winner, a Club Champion, or BOG?
Mids mostly take those honours, now.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Your replies are the reason I enjoy these discussions so much. I had not considered that at all and you're both right .
I like Jacobs, who seems to be tireless and tries his guts out, but his defensive pressure is weak <== and that's a kindness.
Anyway, your comments made me re-think the whole ruckman concept, entirely , especially wrt to more mobile types which will strengthen any team's game.
Thinking further on from that, when's the last time a ruckman was a consistent match-winner (eg like Dangerfield), a Brownlow winner, a Club Champion, or BOG?
Mids mostly take those honours, now.

Goldstein & Sandilands won their B&F in 2015.

 

[BunjiMac]

This. If Jacobs went down JJ and Otten could share the ruck duties and offer more flexibility (assuming Hartigan comes back in to the side). Melbourne were hardly impacted with Gawn out and Freo similarly with Sandilands out....so I think over time the slowish tap-ruck types will be moved on for more mobile types.

I don't think it's an all or nothing thing either.

It's not like the new breed of mobile ruckman can't tap the ball. They can tap the ball AND they are mobile and useful around the ground.

We need ourselves one of them.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Your replies are the reason I enjoy these discussions so much. I had not considered that at all and you're both right .
I like Jacobs, who seems to be tireless and tries his guts out, but his defensive pressure is weak <== and that's a kindness.
Anyway, your comments made me re-think the whole ruckman concept, entirely , especially wrt to more mobile types which will strengthen any team's game.
Thinking further on from that, when's the last time a ruckman was a consistent match-winner (eg like Dangerfield), a Brownlow winner, a Club Champion, or BOG?
Mids mostly take those honours, now.

Whoa now. You take that back. This is the internet. No one is ever nice to each other or thanks other people. Stop ruining the hatred for the rest of use!

 

[Damp Squarie]

I reckon Sauce could use a well earned break before the finals thereby giving ROB a run or even Dear...but not both together.

 

[CrowBloke]

Goldstein & Sandilands won their B&F in 2015.

= confirmation of rarity, thanks . That's 2 out of 36 over two years, less than 6%.
I Googled for ruckmen/Brownlow, which came up with Scott Wynd (1992) although some suggested Goodes (pinch-hit ruckman) 2006 (<== NOT my suggestion, just quoting others). Still uncommon.

 

[CrowBloke]

Whoa now. You take that back. This is the internet. No one is ever nice to each other or thanks other people.

LOL, bloody funny , see below.

I reckon Sauce could use a well earned break before the finals thereby giving ROB a run or even Dear

Yeah good idea (apologies to WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot for more positive feedback ).
I was thinking that if, and that's a big IF, the Crows were Top by a game and % at the end of Round 22 (I wish! hehe) they might "manage" a player or two for the trip across the Nullarbor. Still they have a week off to 'REFRESH' before finals anyway.
Or maybe Rounds 19 or 21?

 

[Damp Squarie]

If the Crows end up top I'll smoke your rope!
That's how confident I am of that happening.

 

[crows dude]

Mute point right now as ROB is injured

 

[ad victoriam]

Anyone stopped to think this out, We currently have Jacob most likely good for another 3 years. In 3 years time, a Top Ruckman hits 26years of age and is a Free Agent and will want to come Home.
ROB is a good backup to Jacobs, Will he replace Jacobs at this time unless he improves by 20% I doubt it.
In 3 years time, it will be interesting. Also there a couple of very Tall kids training in the Acadamy that may be ready in 3 years.
This Draft will tell a story, do they resign Hunter as a rookie or get a Kid in the Draft or another seasoned rookie. that will tell us which way they are looking.

 

[CrowBloke]

Anyone stopped to think this out, We currently have Jacob most likely good for another 3 years. In 3 years time, a Top Ruckman hits 26years of age and is a Free Agent and will want to come Home.
ROB is a good backup to Jacobs, Will he replace Jacobs at this time unless he improves by 20% I doubt it.
In 3 years time, it will be interesting. Also there a couple of very Tall kids training in the Acadamy that may be ready in 3 years.
This Draft will tell a story, do they resign Hunter as a rookie or get a Kid in the Draft or another seasoned rookie. that will tell us which way they are looking.

Good post, good questions.
ROB's future in general is clouded while Jacobs remains first choice. I wonder what the Club has said to him about that.
As you say, next draft will be interesting.

 

[dogs105]

Neither, delist both and get Grundy.

They're both the old style of ruckman and no longer effective.

I'm glad we didn't delist ROB in 2017. Super important player now.

 

[Deaneus!]

 

[John Who]

Newbie- and experienced-Thread Starters alike always need and benefit/learn from the responses of others, especially those containing previously unconsidered facts and information and constructive criticism, so my thanks go to the helpful contributions of Samcro24 and mattymac below:


and


I'm encouraged by your detailed counter-arguments and thoughtful analyses, too --- without your participation, I probably would have just closed the thread.

Some posters don’t have the right attitude when responding.
The true answer would be:

“No, thanks!”

 

[Vhaluus]

I'm glad we didn't delist ROB in 2017. Super important player now.

Yeah look 100% correct. I'm glad we didn't delist him.

I take back what I said about being the old style of ruckman, his work around the grounds is what has made him so good this year.

It's what I wanted I just didn't think he could provide it...got that one very wrong.

To the point I no longer even have any interest in Grundy.