Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

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5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
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It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The official line is that it "wasn't authorised" even though it was being run by the division of the IDF which would be doing this kind of thing and has done it in the past.

They got found out, so they're pretending they didn't mean it or it wasn't authorised, even though it went on for 6 months, and two months after they first denied it, until they finally admitted it.

Mirrors everything else they've previously denied and then been exposed on. Nobody is ever punished, they just say they didn't authorise it, so it's not officially official. Just that it was funded and executed by the IDF.

This is just the stuff that has been exposed, then you wonder how much other influence and impact they've had.

I wonder if the UNRWA links to Hamas is just another IDF creation.

 

[Saint]

I wonder if the UNRWA links to Hamas is just another IDF creation.

I guarantee they'd deny it.

But of course these lies call into question everything else they state as fact. The big 12 they put up in front of everyone is already down to 6, so they've included everyone with a relative alleged to be in Hamas and now have a much bigger number which will take weeks to debunk while people starve and continually bombed.

 

[Jello_B]

Why the hell is there a bill in congress linking aid to Israel! and Ukraine.
What aid does Israel need? Seriously. Palestine needs the aid you dumb shits.

 

[ferball]

Warning, graphic

Spoiler

These people are scum.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Someone disagreed with you.
You said they were the same thing because both wouldn't happen.

Wrong. That is not a reason to group them together.

Yeah, they are the same. Hamas saying they want to destroy Israel without the capacity to do so is the same as the Israelis who want to expand into Egypt and Syria. Neither have the capacity to enact their deranged wishes. What is the thing in your mind which differentiates them?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I guarantee they'd deny it.

But of course these lies call into question everything else they state as fact. The big 12 they put up in front of everyone is already down to 6, so they've included everyone with a relative alleged to be in Hamas and now have a much bigger number which will take weeks to debunk while people starve and continually bombed.

Meanwhile they murdered two people in hospital to get to one "alleged" Hamas operative. Apparently that's kosher though?

 

[Trouto]

Meanwhile they murdered two people in hospital to get to one "alleged" Hamas operative. Apparently that's kosher though?

dont forget he was a paraplegic and asleep...

 

[Gethelred]

Is ZEV still defending his mates in the Israeli forces?

Please don't tag people who have left the thread back in.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Are IDF the most inaccurate, expensive, incompetent and inefficient army ever created?

 

[Boston tiger]

I wonder if Hamas had their time over again would they have attacked Israel? Or do you think they are happy with what is going on ?

 

[madmug]

I wonder if Hamas had their time over again would they have attacked Israel? Or do you think they are happy with what is going on ?

They weren't happy at any time. When Hamas operatives grew up, their parents & most Grandparents grew up seeing the Zionists steal land, kill Palestinian villagers & farmers, then turn Gaza into the worlds biggest open air prison. All while the settlements were continually called illegal by the worlds countries.
In that circumstance, what would you do?
Drop your pants & cop it?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I wonder if Hamas had their time over again would they have attacked Israel? Or do you think they are happy with what is going on ?

The only people that seem happy about 13,000 dead children are the zionists.

 

[blackcat]

the diaspora have been manipulating the mainstream media for decades

the English and the Yanks are the propaganda king's

remember our last Victorian Cross winner and didn't he get other OA* awards in perth , ben roberts-smith ¿ it is Stanford's rene girard manifest symbiosis manifest pleonasm

¹ memetic theory anzac hero v.cross
________________×_________________

² scapegoat theory warcrimez



i put it to you latham would not have taken out troops from afghanistan even though he said he would in his campaign , so could point bone at jwh but latham and all be all in too

LondonPentagonKstreetMadisonAv best at propaganda , not even close

 

[blackcat]

The only people that seem happy about 13,000 dead children are the zionists.

you conflate Knesset and Bibi's admin. w common run-of-the-mill Jewish people

 

[blackcat]

I wonder if the UNRWA links to Hamas is just another IDF creation.

Pentagon beta-testing A.I. for plausible deniability

 

[blackcat]

I wonder if the UNRWA links to Hamas is just another IDF creation.

^ .d.e.f.i.n.i.t.i.o.n.

like in Iraq to get employment associated with the government in Saddam's iraq you had to be associated with the bath™ party , as a lay_ignoramus I think it is akin to Iraq in Palestine w Hamas v private sector so marginal and unprecedented unemployment , so effectively Everyone in Palestine Hamas or 2degrees of separation (shepisi)

 

[Ballarat Bob]

I wonder if Hamas had their time over again would they have attacked Israel? Or do you think they are happy with what is going on ?

I don't think Hamas in their wildest dreams would have expected the attack to be so successful. They probably thought they might be able to kill a few soldiers maybe grab half a dozen hostages and run back across the border. At worst if it ended up being a small raid they would have expected air strikes and artillery strikes and maybe limited incursions from the IDF but still leaving Hamas in charge.
The complete failure of the IDF to oppose Hamas on the 7th of October escalated the attack into something that I don't think Hamas could seriously have envisaged.
Hamas has only one real option to survive and that is to play chicken with Israel using the hostages as bargaining chips. The best they can hope for is to have a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal in exchange for the hostages leaving them still in charge.
If Israel can continue to accept IDF casualties and resist international condemnation of their brutal tactics and keep on pushing out Hamas and killing its operatives (as well as killing civilians and more than likely the hostages) then Hamas will be crippled permanently.
I don't think Hamas would be happy now , they have found out who their friends are and any expectation of an Arab uprising or even Hezbollah making a significant attack into Israel have faded. Only the Houthis have stepped up their support.
They look like they will lose power in Gaza and any surviving senior leadership will be on an Israeli hit list.
Regardless who administers Gaza in future will still have to deal with militant groups even if they are not Hamas /Islamic Jihad , flattening Gaza , killing huge numbers of civilians and demonizing Palestinians and leaving the remaining population mainly homeless and reliant on aid will create the perfect environment for angry young men to feel they have nothing to lose in resisting Israel.
Hamas are probably finished but unless their is a fair and significant peace agreement between Israel and Palestine then another version of Hamas or a multitude of smaller resistance groups will appear.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They weren't happy at any time. When Hamas operatives grew up, their parents & most Grandparents grew up seeing the Zionists steal land, kill Palestinian villagers & farmers, then turn Gaza into the worlds biggest open air prison. All while the settlements were continually called illegal by the worlds countries.
In that circumstance, what would you do?
Drop your pants & cop it?

It could be the best option.
What do you think people did in Russia under Stalin. Tell him he was a bastard?

 

[Blue1980]

So now the Israel defenders are back to “look what Hamas made Israel do”.

Is there any response Israel could have done that some Israel defenders wouldn’t see as over the top?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So now the Israel defenders are back to “look what Hamas made Israel do”.

Is there any response Israel could have done that some Israel defenders wouldn’t see as over the top?

Are you talking about my post?
The question was posed "do hamas regret what they did in October"?

I'm not defending anyone, but it was like jumping into a Lion enclosure.
Did anyone really expect Israel to turn the other cheek?

If you cared for the citizens of Gaza you simply wouldn't do that.

 

[Jello_B]

Are you talking about my post?
The question was posed "do hamas regret what they did in October"?

I'm not defending anyone, but it was like jumping into a Lion enclosure.
Did anyone really expect Israel to turn the other cheek?

If you cared for the citizens of Gaza you simply wouldn't do that.

They don’t care for the citizens of Gaza. And unfortunately it doesn’t seem like any other government does either.

 

[blackcat]

Are you talking about my post?
The question was posed "do hamas regret what they did in October"?

I'm not defending anyone, but it was like jumping into a Lion enclosure.
Did anyone really expect Israel to turn the other cheek?

If you cared for the citizens of Gaza you simply wouldn't do that.

It's a paradox

The Israeli new historian IlanPappe said Hamas would have expected such response by the Netanyahu adminstration

from me: no ethical value judgement either way , the only corollary i could add is , i think Westminster and Americans getting away with alot , because they have it within their power to achieve some peace in the last decades , they prefer Israel to be their cat's paw in the M.E. and cop all blame

 

[Blue1980]

Are you talking about my post?
The question was posed "do hamas regret what they did in October"?

I'm not defending anyone, but it was like jumping into a Lion enclosure.
Did anyone really expect Israel to turn the other cheek?

If you cared for the citizens of Gaza you simply wouldn't do that.

Hamas aren’t good guys, they are bad.

Everyone knows this.

My sympathies lie with lives being lost and you currently have Gaza being blown to bits achieving nothing except satisfying Israel’s bloodlust and aim to eradicate Palestinians from the region.

 

[ferball]

the English and the Yanks are the propaganda king's

remember our last Victorian Cross winner and didn't he get other OA* awards in perth , ben roberts-smith ¿ it is Stanford's rene girard manifest symbiosis manifest pleonasm

¹ memetic theory anzac hero v.cross
________________×_________________

² scapegoat theory warcrimez



i put it to you latham would not have taken out troops from afghanistan even though he said he would in his campaign , so could point bone at jwh but latham and all be all in too

LondonPentagonHstreetMadisonAv best at propaganda , not even close

BRS wouldn't look out of place in one of those videos of the IDF shooting people while they were tied up and blindfolded.

 

[blackcat]

BRS wouldn't look out of place in one of those videos of the IDF shooting people while they were tied up and blindfolded.

VictoriaCross/notsureabout OofA

you look at him and see Jake_The_Musc[sic] I think character was Jake the Muss in Once_Were_Warriors and the scene where Jake headbuts some pudenda† and says ' not enough speed work bro too many roids*. '

† because the plural is much more mellifluous than the clunky singular
* roids 'too much weights bro'

qua meathead #Fli#Flintstonesbambam