Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[Not Important]

 

[Not Important]

yes. and thank goodness for a jewish voice of humanity and reason.

 

[blackcat]

If Israel is guilty of genocide, then Australia is guilty of complicity in genocide. It’s our obligation to stop it from happening.
Israel should be abandoned, sanctioned etc.

Perhaps you should do some homework, read the genocide convention etc.

but you are indeed aware of TENSION between Hague v Power

US has protocols in StateDep't activating special forces to rescue detainees in Ottawa or Hague , how does one square that w assange and bellmarsh

 

[Blue1980]

Poor Germans.

Desperately trying to make up for their genocide by supporting Israel without question - even arresting and refusing entry to people questioning Israel's genocide - and what does Bibi do?

Keeps bringing up Germany's genocide!

Just can't win.

This is how it works, commit a genocide on a race of people you get to do your own genocide down the track!

 

[Blue1980]

Watching a round of lefty Tubers this morning.

Incredible amount of pro-Israel propaganda being highlighted and called out.

The US college protests yielding video of students in handcuffs being tased, a philosophy protester being taken away by a cop in a mask and military-like uniform. Student face being ground into concrete. An economics professor in her 50's being slammed on the ground by a thumb-shaped goon, and moved off the grass so her face is on the concrete while she's in handcuffs.

Meanwhile weirdo righties decrying the "violence" from protesters.

"It's amazing how the right have entirely abandoned their calls for free speech."

For the Right wing just pure projection re when they complain about no free speech.

They revel in their hypocrisy as they see it as a team sport and do whatever you can to get away with what you want. There is no actual want for a better society, just pure unadulterated nihilism and selfishness.

Also re Israel, well Israel give lots of money to these people to spread propaganda, hence why pro Israel.

 

[Blue1980]

Hamas are claiming responsibility for a rocket attack from Lebanon.

So now, even if Israel blows Rafah into the sky, they'll never be able to claim to have eradicated Hamas.

And Hamas and Hezbollah want Israel to invade Lebanon. They know Netanyahu has to keep the war going and they know any expansion will be met with complete derision from the UN and around the globe.

Well Israel attacking Iran is trying to get the US involved, none of this is good for anyone.

Bad for Palestinian and bad for the people of Israel. Definitely doesn’t make Israel safer.

 

[Blue1980]

It isn't now and it never was. If someone was taught that the holocaust was the only specific instance of genocide than, that's a pretty poor education.

Genocide as a term is relatively new, the act of genocide isn't.

Genocide has been committed as long as humans could walk.

Every single country on planet earth has been conquered at one point in time in history. And all that conquering involved varying degrees of genocide every single time.

Are you suggesting we just look at genocide as a fact of life and human nature?

 

[faible]

I believe the entire video goes for 7 minutes

 

[1990crow]

Israel's president needs to be tried for crimes against humanity. Awful man.

 

[blackcat]

This is how it works, commit a genocide on a race of people you get to do your own genocide down the track!

like Australia UK and America in Mesopotamia in the last two decades , you want me to bring the receipts ? Brown University Rhode Island brings 6million receipts , how them apples , Israelis are pawns in DC's great game to take down Persia

folks who are long timers have seen my opinion on the innocent victims

know the water you swim in*


*nt to blue80

 

[blackcat]

Are you suggesting we just look at genocide as a fact of life and human nature?

i would posit this

apart from serbians no white Euros or Americans at Hague™

*even tho DC and StateDep't have protocols outline to invade hague w special forces if one of their Americans are tried

 

[blackcat]

It isn't now and it never was. If someone was taught that the holocaust was the only specific instance of genocide than, that's a pretty poor education.

Genocide as a term is relatively new, the act of genocide isn't.

Genocide has been committed as long as humans could walk.

Every single country on planet earth has been conquered at one point in time in history. And all that conquering involved varying degrees of genocide every single time.

yep
yep
and
yep

^ folks are conflating @_blue80&_blackcat facts with support

NationStates left&right political administrations don't care for you

you think Albo and Labor™ care for Assange ? about as much as Liberal and Gillard , nada , zip

 

[Crankyhawk]

There is speculation that Epstein blackmailed his influential "friends" ( pretty stupid on their behalf, its a strategy that's been going on throughout history ), and that he did work for the Israeli government as well as others.

I think its only speculation, and i'd suggest they are protesting against the treatment of that speculation as fact, rather than protecting Epstein's legacy.

The suggestion is that Epstein purposely "provided" ( I believe they were paid well, so is that trafficking? Not sure of all the details ) underage girls, because it made the blackmail that much more effective. They can't get out of it by coming clean and saying sorry. Whatever the case he was one sick puppy.

I think smarter to ignore the accusation. Then the accusation ignored looks like a conspiracy claim

 

[blackcat]

There is speculation that Epstein blackmailed his influential "friends" ( pretty stupid on their behalf, its a strategy that's been going on throughout history ), and that he did work for the Israeli government as well as others.

I think its only speculation, and i'd suggest they are protesting against the treatment of that speculation as fact, rather than protecting Epstein's legacy.

The suggestion is that Epstein purposely "provided" ( I believe they were paid well, so is that trafficking? Not sure of all the details ) underage girls, because it made the blackmail that much more effective. They can't get out of it by coming clean and saying sorry. Whatever the case he was one sick puppy.

see WhitneyWebb and ProfessorsDAveCollum at Cornell an IvyLgue in NYstate


see psychology - diffusion of responsibility

if lots are involved = LOTS of protection

 

[Gethelred]

Hopefully that investigation takes place one day and if found to have occurred those responsible are dealt with as the laws allow them to be.

Augusto Pinochet died an old man in his bed, never convicted of any of the crimes for which he was accused.

I doubt it.

 

[blackcat]

Augusto Pinochet died an old man in his bed, never convicted of any of the crimes for which he was accused.

I doubt it.

protected by his State™ sponsors

 

[Saint]

Augusto Pinochet died an old man in his bed, never convicted of any of the crimes for which he was accused.

I doubt it.

Same with Idi Amin, and they're still finding his victims in the lake.

But there are people who think action shouldn't be taken against Israel until they're found guilty in a court which they'll refuse to show up to.

It's precisely the lesson the world was supposed to learn. That they can't sit idly by and allow genocide to happen.

 

[Saint]

Israeli terrorists being called settlers and protesters again while doing terrorism.

Israeli settlers attacked Jordanian aid convoy heading to Gaza, Jordan Foreign Minister reports

Two Jordanian aid convoys en route to Gaza were attacked by Israeli settlers. Despite the incident, both convoys reached their destination.

www.jpost.com

 

[Gethelred]

everyone isn't ignoring it nor have i suggested they should.

I am simply advising you that in the event Israel is found Guilty of Genocide doesn't automatically make other countries complicit - which is what you asserted. You dont need a law degree to understand basic law.

If your view is that us helping Israel makes Australia guilty of Genocide by a simple link, would it not be correct that us providing aid to Gaza, which Hamas controls as a Terrorist organisation also mean Australia is guilty of Terrorism?

This is a good deal more basic than Israel having broken the law, HTW.

Why are you making an 'innocent until proven guilty' argument - as though Israel having broken international law was the issue - in this thread?

 

[Not Important]

the irony is that the bribery could well come out of the immense funding the americans have given the occupiers and genocide killers.

 

[Not Important]

on the other hand just how low can you go? seems radical zionists have no depths they won’t plumb.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

This is a good deal more basic than Israel having broken the law, HTW.

Why are you making an 'innocent until proven guilty' argument - as though Israel having broken international law was the issue - in this thread?

I am not making such an argument.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Are you suggesting we just look at genocide as a fact of life and human nature?

no. merely a point of fact.

genocides are not specific to only the holocaust.

Atilla the Hun for example undertook many genocides, some 1500 years before the term genocide was coined.

 

[Not Important]

caring, humane, progressive students and humane scholars are the hope for the future.



caring, humane, scholars.

 

[Gethelred]

I am not making such an argument.

Your argument appears to be telling people that withdrawing aid or government support from Israel should be contingent on them being tried and found guilty of genocide. I can certainly see why you would dislike me making that comparison, because unlike most cases before the courts Israel's misdeeds here are extremely well documented and such an argument would be exceedingly absurd to make.

Which is why I asked you why you were doing it, so let me ask you again: why are you making an 'innocent until proven guilty' argument when this could be the most demonstrable genocide in history?