Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[faible]

Isn't that the choice of Gazans themselves to make? What's the alternative, live under Hamas where one can be executed for being part of the LGBTQ community or trying to assist in the capture of Hamas fighters?


I don't see the logic here in forcing someone to stay in a warzone against their will if they are actually prepared to leave and start a new life as a refugee.

Israel could just stop the genocide.

 

[Zidane98]

Israel could just stop the genocide.

As could Hamas & Iran but considering Hamas attacked the Kerem Shalom aid border crossing as soon as it reopened I don't see that stopping any time soon.


Not sure I see the logic here though, if a civilian wants to leave Gaza via Egypt to become a refugee I don't see why they should be stopped from doing so to escape a warzone.

Forcible evacuations is a different story, should never happen.

 

[faible]

As could Hamas & Iran but considering Hamas attacked the Kerem Shalom aid border crossing as soon as it reopened I don't see that stopping any time soon.


Not sure I see the logic here though, if a civilian wants to leave Gaza via Egypt to become a refugee I don't see why they should be stopped from doing so to escape a warzone.

Forcible evacuations is a different story, should never happen.

Israel drops bombs on Rafah

Also Israel 'I don't understand why they're shooting at us over here when we're bombing them all the way over there'.

 

[Zidane98]

Israel drops bombs on Rafah

Also Israel 'I don't understand why they're shooting at us over here when we're bombing them all the way over there'.

So why would you want to deny anyone who wants to leave the opportunity to leave?

 

[sherb]

Israel could just stop the genocide.

Nah, they enjoy it too much. They are not going to stop when they are having so much fun.

 

[Chief]

Not sure I see the logic here though, if a civilian wants to leave Gaza via Egypt to become a refugee I don't see why they should be stopped from doing so to escape a warzone.

Forcible evacuations is a different story, should never happen.

So bombing people until they have to leave or die is not forcible removal?

 

[Not Important]

not only old joe, but every administration that has funded the evil that infects israel’s gov’t and top structure since they started the occupation decades ago.

 

[Not Important]

kudos to every one of them. winds of change hopefully.

 

[Zidane98]

kudos to every one of them. winds of change hopefully.

Israel & Iran should be banned from international sport until a truce can be agreed over Gaza.

 

[Not Important]

ben-gvir is a corrupt ideological madman. if there is any justice in this world, one day he, netanyahu and the multitude of evil-doers in the israeli power structure will pay a price for their crimes against humanity.

 

[Not Important]

Israel & Iran should be banned from international sport until a truce can be agreed over Gaza.

you have a point. that said, israel has no interest in a truce. their sole and abiding interest has been in the destruction of palestine by whatever means. the horror of the hamas attack just facilitated it.

 

[Saint]

So why would you want to deny anyone who wants to leave the opportunity to leave?

People don't want to leave their homelands, never to return.

Egypt doesn't want to have to clean up the mess Israel is responsible for cleaning up.

The solution is for Israel to stop killing civilians, not for everyone else to help them ethnically cleanse Gaza.

If I were in Gaza, offered the choice of staying or being a refugee in Egypt for my whole life, maybe I'd try my luck staying. Maybe I'd just strap on a suicide vest and get it over with and at least take somebody down with me.

But the desperate in suicide vests are terrorists, and the ones bombing them and their families we call "friends" and "allies". It's sickening to hear people talk like this.

The ironic thing is that it's the opposite of the foundation of the state of Israel. Why didn't they all just move to America or other western countries? Why do they need their own country if Palestinians can't have their own country?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Isn't that the choice of Gazans themselves to make? What's the alternative, live under Hamas where one can be executed for being part of the LGBTQ community or trying to assist in the capture of Hamas fighters?


I don't see the logic here in forcing someone to stay in a warzone against their will if they are actually prepared to leave and start a new life as a refugee.

Whether they share a common religion or not, a sovereign state is allowed to exercise autonomy over who it accepts as a refugee... Particularly when you consider that the number could end up being north of a million!!!

FFS... We lose our collective sh1ts when a boat carrying 40 people arrives!

 

[faible]

So why would you want to deny anyone who wants to leave the opportunity to leave?

Ask Israel?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Ask Israel?

Egypt probably also don't want blood on their hands. If they said that Gazans were free to cross the border that would give Israel effective carte blanche to attack anything and everything in Gaza (after the obligatory letter drop of course).

 

[faible]

Egypt probably also don't want blood on their hands. If they said that Gazans were free to cross the border that would give Israel effective carte blanche to attack anything and everything in Gaza (after the obligatory letter drop of course).

Amazing how many other people are expected to do things whilst Israel bomb away. If you’re concerned about civilian deaths, maybe blame the people actually dropping the bombs on those civilians?

 

[Carn The Berries]

Amazing how many other people are expected to do things whilst Israel bomb away. If you’re concerned about civilian deaths, maybe blame the people actually dropping the bombs on those civilians?

Yep, amazing how the root cause of the perilous situation these people find themselves in is so often, and easily, overlooked.

 

[faible]

Yep, amazing how the root cause of the perilous situation these people find themselves in is so often, and easily, overlooked.

Next up, someone replies ‘but Hamas’

 

[Carn The Berries]

Next up, someone replies ‘but Hamas’

Nah... That is pas se now... Apparently it's "but Egypt should help their Muslim brothers"

 

[sherb]

Whether they share a common religion or not, a sovereign state is allowed to exercise autonomy over who it accepts as a refugee... Particularly when you consider that the number could end up being north of a million!!!

FFS... We lose our collective sh1ts when a boat carrying 40 people arrives!

Not all of us......

 

[Chief]

Ask Israel?

They have always allowed people to come and go as they please. They just have to go through one of the "friendship checkpoints" in the "wall of human brotherhood", seen here attended by "guardians of love" with their flower sowing gun.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

People don't want to leave their homelands, never to return.

Egypt doesn't want to have to clean up the mess Israel is responsible for cleaning up.

The solution is for Israel to stop killing civilians, not for everyone else to help them ethnically cleanse Gaza.

If I were in Gaza, offered the choice of staying or being a refugee in Egypt for my whole life, maybe I'd try my luck staying. Maybe I'd just strap on a suicide vest and get it over with and at least take somebody down with me.

But the desperate in suicide vests are terrorists, and the ones bombing them and their families we call "friends" and "allies". It's sickening to hear people talk like this.

The ironic thing is that it's the opposite of the foundation of the state of Israel. Why didn't they all just move to America or other western countries? Why do they need their own country if Palestinians can't have their own country?

A lot of people who immigrated to Australia prior to cheap air travel, never expected to return.
My best friend was 1YO when he arrived here from Czechoslovakia.
They did go back to visit eventually, but circumstances had changed and it was still complicated.

They weren't refugee's , it was that they decided their life would be better elsewhere.
Lots of Vietnamese "were" refugee's. Do they regret coming to Australia?

There are plenty who have used suicide vests without being desperate. You could have a whole thread on the techniques used to manipulate suicide bombers. ( It's never a Bin Laden type who blows himself up ).

 

[Saint]

A lot of people who immigrated to Australia prior to cheap air travel, never expected to return.
My best friend was 1YO when he arrived here from Czechoslovakia.
They did go back to visit eventually, but circumstances had changed and it was still complicated.

They weren't refugee's , it was that they decided their life would be better elsewhere.
Lots of Vietnamese "were" refugee's. Do they regret coming to Australia?

There are plenty who have used suicide vests without being desperate. You could have a whole thread on the techniques used to manipulate suicide bombers. ( It's never a Bin Laden type who blows himself up ).

There's a difference between pursuing a better life and being forced out at gunpoint with famine being used as a weapon as well as bombs and missiles from all directions and the destruction of all civilian infrastructure.

Comparing the two is borderline offensive.

Lots of people commit suicide too, but we don't excuse murder because of it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Gosh, imagine being such a goober that you get outsmarted by Piers Morgan.

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[Balls In]

Penny Wong is a disgrace voting for this UN resolution. Who is the government of Palestine, Penny? You fool. This directly rewards Hamas and it's horrific tactics of 7 October. God help those poor hostages.