Jack Gunston - Hawthorn bound

[Hawkzzz]

This is more like what should be posted, not these up themself fans that think their players are all worth 1st rounders. You can admit that by no means Lisle is currently a star and has some areas he really needs to improve. But he could potentially be molded into a player exactly like Drew same build, athleticism? dunno how well Lisle jumps and toughness

Sorry, you're right Drew. Add a pick 50 odd to the Hawks in this deal.

If you watch his game against Freo at the MCG, any fan could see he reads the play very well. If only he had bagged the 3 goals he should have kicked, from marks (he also took a mark and gave off a nice pass to Rioli for a goal).

As a forward, Lisle would suffer from our kick it to Buddy syndrome. Even Roughy suffers from that. Gunston will probably do well at the club because he is likely to play a half forward lead-up the ground type role.

Watch the game vs the Pies, 10 marks in 3 and a bit quarters playing as a Key Defender. He is a better mark than Shoe and in my view he is better able to handle the gorilla type forwards. Lisle reads the play better than Shoe, but is not as quick. I have no doubt Shoe will have to watch his back if Lisle stays a Hawk.

Having seen the likes of Geelong and Collingwood work with two big bodied forwards, I still believe Lisle has a real chance at CHB, especially after another pre season.

The club stands to have some serious egg on its face if they put Lisle up for trade. I think the club will look at the shattering loss to the Pies and will make a very tough call. Psychologically, we've seen our club do this very thing over the last 3 years' trades. Who wins in the end, time will tell.

 

[Hawkzzz]

Lisle is a big body, he will obviously mature and be even more imposing. He is probably our best mark at the club. He isn't overly quick, if there is a knock on him this is it but you couldn't question his toughness.

He really looks like he needs to be given a chance at one end of the ground for long enough to develop. From what I read last year he was swung with Pederson forward and back many weeks playing half the game at each end of the ground.

This year he seemed to get put Forward or Back at BHH depending on who was injured in the senior side. He showed a bit in the NAB cup, in the game against the WCE he out-muscled Glass and got out in front of him on numerous occasions, unfortunately it looked like nerves got to him and his strong marking fell away. In the game against Fremantle this year he should of had 3 goals and an assist to half time, again nerves got the better of him and he sprayed shots from 20m out and instead got subbed.

He finally looked like he belong with his showing against Collingwood but obviously the facial fractures put paid to that.

He is a soft target because of his nervy showing so far at AFL level but he definitely looks a likely type, his output hasn't matched his skill-set, with some confidence in a set role until he finds his feet I'm sure he will have our supporters jealous of his new home should a trade eventuate.

I couldn't agree more. His body is perfectly set up for a big pre season and output, BUT he must be given opportunity and continuity. No one can excel without this. I honestly won't be too happy and will nervously watch his progress if he does move on. (we have suffered enough watching Kennedy Jnr already...ok we were VERY lucky to get Stratton out of this deal or it would go down as shocker). Again, it was a case of they wanted to leave for a better contract and opportunities.

We're now looking at repeating a very risky deal.

 

[Changa10]

Drew, I don't think anyone of us Hawks have stated that Lisle is worth a first rounder. It's just staggering that people rate this Gunston bloke as pick 15 - 20, but Lisle pick 30 plus, that's all.

If Lisle is worth Pick 30+, then Pick 24 should simply get this deal done.

As the other posters (Satan, Hawkzzz and Prudster) have said, Lisle was getting games when everyone was injured, but then he also got a fractured cheekbone which was his demise for 2011.

The other side of your argument is that the Hawks are top 4 material in 2011, so it would be harder to break into that team, than it would be to break into Adelaide's team this year. Of course they were going to test out their youngsters.

 

[Ravenous Crow]

Emma Quayle on Twitter:

If Jack Gunston was in this draft, he would be a top 15 pick easily. Be interesting to see what the hawks or whoever else cough up for him

Keep in mind Jack Gunston is younger and more talented than than some other guys taken high in the draft recently:

Hayden Ballantyne - pick 21 2008, age 21

Isaac Smith - pick 19 2010, age 21

 

[King Elvis]

What is it about Jack Gunston that seems to get everyone worked up?

People rate him and want him, but suggest unrealistic trade proposals, then arc up when people lulz at them.

 

[Drew23]

Drew, I don't think anyone of us Hawks have stated that Lisle is worth a first rounder. It's just staggering that people rate this Gunston bloke as pick 15 - 20, but Lisle pick 30 plus, that's all.

If Lisle is worth Pick 30+, then Pick 24 should simply get this deal done.

As the other posters (Satan, Hawkzzz and Prudster) have said, Lisle was getting games when everyone was injured, but then he also got a fractured cheekbone which was his demise for 2011.

The other side of your argument is that the Hawks are top 4 material in 2011, so it would be harder to break into that team, than it would be to break into Adelaide's team this year. Of course they were going to test out their youngsters.

Changa I have a couple for you who have stated exactly what you said hadn't been

Lisle for pick 18 from North sounds about right.

Especially considering how shit this draft is. Lisle has actually shown something - pick 18 in this draft is the equivalent of pick 30 in any other draft.

Obviously this guy hasn't seen the talent in this draft as the top end is very strong.

I think Lisle will be heading to North and pick 18 going to Adelaide. I would have thought Lisle is not worth pick 18, despite showing promising signs, so other exchanges may be involved

This guy is maybe a touch smarter but still stating he thinks 18 may do it...

I see what you mean with the whole Lisle has shown just as much as Gunston. But that is where you may be wrong. Lisle's kicking at the moment is not up to afl level and I believe that is why he is not getting a game. He also seems to lack the fitness base at the moment and with a few more pre seasons i'm sure it will come. Lisle can mark the ball very well but that alone is not enough. Gunston has shown he can mark, kick and run in his second year. He is a year behind Lisle and hasn't developed his body yet. I think at this current stage they are close to even but lisle is over a year older and a year is a long time and time will tell. You would be better comparing gunston this year to lisle last year

 

[MaddAdam]

He really looks like he needs to be given a chance at one end of the ground for long enough to develop.

We already have Lachie Hansen for this.

 

[King Elvis]

Emma Quayle is of the opinion he'd be in the top 15 of this draft.

Would value her opinion more than most people's in this thread.

 

[satan1]

We already have Lachie Hansen for this.

Wouldn't have a clue about whether he is a good fit for you guys, just trying to provide a Hawthorn supporters insight into Lisles strengths/weaknesses.

 

[morgoth]

Hawthorn give up their first rounder and swap their second round for the Crows third.

Hawks will be loath to give up an established player as they are in a window at the moment so I reckon it will be picks.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

We already have Lachie Hansen for this.

Lots of talls on North's list (just listing the guys over 190cm).

Delaney (x2)
Hansen
Thompson
Tarrant
Firrito
Grima
Kennedy
Pedersen

As well as the ruckmen: Petrie, McIntosh, Goldstein, Daw, Mabon

I don't know much about these guys. Where would Lisle rank in this list. Would he be getting a game? Just really trying to work out if North really want/need Lisle?

Also - I wonder if Hawthorn can really afford to offload a tall. I mean, Lisle played a great role in the few times he came into the side. At one stage we had injuries/suspension to Buddy, Roughead, Gilham, Stratton, Hale and Schoenmakers.

ANYWAY
I'll have a go and see how it all hangs together:

1. Hawks; receive Gunston + pick 18 for pick 24 + ???
2. North: receive Lisle + ??? for pick 18
3. Adelaide: receive: pick 24.

Shit hang on - I just can't see how this will work

Lisle alone isn't worth pick 18
Hawks would probably want a first round pick from somewhere, perhaps a separate trade.
Gunston is worth pick 15 or better according to Quayle.

So if the trade doesn't get done with a simple Pick 18/Lisle/Gunston 3 way, which I wouldn't expect it to - then I can't see how both Adelaide and North will be getting more?

Is it an extra hawk player? An extra hawk pick? One of each to North and Adelaide?

 

[Drew23]

Lots of talls on North's list (just listing the guys over 190cm).

Delaney (x2)
Hansen
Thompson
Tarrant
Firrito
Grima
Kennedy
Pedersen

As well as the ruckmen: Petrie, McIntosh, Goldstein, Daw, Mabon

I don't know much about these guys. Where would Lisle rank in this list. Would he be getting a game? Just really trying to work out if North really want/need Lisle?

Also - I wonder if Hawthorn can really afford to offload a tall. I mean, Lisle played a great role in the few times he came into the side. At one stage we had injuries/suspension to Buddy, Roughead, Gilham, Stratton, Hale and Schoenmakers.

ANYWAY
I'll have a go and see how it all hangs together:

1. Hawks; receive Gunston + pick 18 for pick 24 + ???
2. North: receive Lisle + ??? for pick 18
3. Adelaide: receive: pick 24.

Shit hang on - I just can't see how this will work

Lisle alone isn't worth pick 18
Hawks would probably want a first round pick from somewhere, perhaps a separate trade.
Gunston is worth pick 15 or better according to Quayle.

So if the trade doesn't get done with a simple Pick 18/Lisle/Gunston 3 way, which I wouldn't expect it to - then I can't see how both Adelaide and North will be getting more?

Is it an extra hawk player? An extra hawk pick? One of each to North and Adelaide?

North don't need Lisle and personally I am not his biggest fan been asking on the north board why we would even be after him...

What you have stated there would not require north as part of a 3 way...
North were placed in their as a potential 3 way as they have the draft pick of about what gunston is believed to be worth. This then fell on what do north get to compensate the pick 18 they lose.

Because unfortunately 24>Gunston probably wont work as it is a win for hawthorn

 

[MaddAdam]

Wouldn't have a clue about whether he is a good fit for you guys, just trying to provide a Hawthorn supporters insight into Lisles strengths/weaknesses.

Just saying Lachie Hansen is a better prospect who has played both forward and back and needs time at one end or the other. We also have Cam Pederson who can play that role.

 

[AGC]

ANYWAY
I'll have a go and see how it all hangs together:

1. Hawks; receive Gunston + pick 18 for pick 24 + ???
2. North: receive Lisle + ??? for pick 18
3. Adelaide: receive: pick 24.

Shit hang on - I just can't see how this will work

Lisle alone isn't worth pick 18
Hawks would probably want a first round pick from somewhere, perhaps a separate trade.
Gunston is worth pick 15 or better according to Quayle.

So if the trade doesn't get done with a simple Pick 18/Lisle/Gunston 3 way, which I wouldn't expect it to - then I can't see how both Adelaide and North will be getting more?

Is it an extra hawk player? An extra hawk pick? One of each to North and Adelaide?

My main query is: how the hell are you within your salary cap; and this in my eyes presents a target for one of your young players.

Say we offered:

Pick 18 and Campbell for Suckling (just an example if we offered him a shit tonne of cash and he accepted)

Pick 18---> Adelaide.

Gunston--> Hawthorn.

So at the end of the day:

Adelaide:
IN: Pick 18
Out: Gunston

Hawks:
In: Campbell and Gunston
Out: Suckling

North:
In: Suckling
Out: 18 and Campbell.

 

[MaddAdam]

Where would Lisle rank in this list. Would he be getting a game? Just really trying to work out if North really want/need Lisle?

Considering he got comfortably beaten by Robbie Tarrant in the twos, well, well down.

I'm not sure we need Lisle. And to be honest, I'd rather not trade for players with Hawthorn.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

My main query is: how the hell are you within your salary cap; and this in my eyes presents a target for one of your young players.

Say we offered:

Pick 18 and Campbell for Suckling (just an example if we offered him a shit tonne of cash and he accepted)

Pick 18---> Adelaide.

Gunston--> Hawthorn.

So at the end of the day:

Adelaide:
IN: Pick 18
Out: Gunston

Hawks:
In: Campbell and Gunston
Out: Suckling

North:
In: Suckling
Out: 18 and Campbell.

How are we within the salary cap?
No idea. List management with contracts was Pelchen's biggest strength.

Brown left - was receiving a healthy amount.

But poaching players is an expensive game usually. To entice a player across it normally involves giving them a pay increase.
Hale, Burgoyne, Gibson, Bruce* are our recent imports. Bruce reportedly on less than he was at Melbourne.

Your equation actually balances. And makes more sense as Suckling would be a bigger requirement for North than Lisle. The hawks would do it if we saw it as a step forward. That's for someone else to decide though.

 

[The Nostradamus]

My main query is: how the hell are you within your salary cap; and this in my eyes presents a target for one of your young players.

Say we offered:

Pick 18 and Campbell for Suckling (just an example if we offered him a shit tonne of cash and he accepted)

Pick 18---> Adelaide.

Gunston--> Hawthorn.

So at the end of the day:

Adelaide:
IN: Pick 18
Out: Gunston

Hawks:
In: Campbell and Gunston
Out: Suckling

North:
In: Suckling
Out: 18 and Campbell.

very good trade suggestion and seems fair for everyone involved but i reckon hawthorn wins this suggested trade and we probably lose just. Very close to what might happen though imo.

 

[legend166]

They should trade him to Brisbane or something just to teach him a lesson.

19 year olds making demands on where to be traded to just annoys me.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

They should trade him to Brisbane or something just to teach him a lesson.

19 year olds making demands on where to be traded to just annoys me.

I believe he asked politely, and did a slight bow as he spoke.

 

[longdonkey]

After thinking about it I'm not sure the Crows would accept 24 plus player.

The Crows need key backs. So I think Schoenmakers swap is what Adelaide would want. Depends on who they might get for their first round pick.
They might be keen on Talia's younger brother- not sure where he might go in the draft but could be gone by 12. Apparently is better than his older bro.
Schoenmakers is the player they need can play key position but would make a great utility defender if they end up getting another key defender..

 

[grizzlym]

How about we calm down a bit here, people?

 

[WWSD]

What is all he fuss about Jack Gunston? I mean he has only played 15 Games, he is not worth trading for. Id rather keep a bloke by the name of Jordan Lisle. I would be pissed if we were to get rid of Young Ellis Lisle or Schoenmakers just to get Gunston. At the end of the day i dont care if we miss out on him.

 

[WALL-e]

How about we calm down a bit here, people?

Go steal a lawn mower, prick.


...sorry. Bloody Gunston

 

[hfc70]

Go steal a lawn mower, prick.


...sorry. Bloody Gunston

Totally unacceptable - you should know better Wall-e !

 

[HolyRioli]

Does a third party really need to be used?

Gunston + 53 for 24 + 64 (swap of 3rd round picks)


Leaves Adelaide with 10, 24, 35, 64. A strong draft position