Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[fishardansin]

Wouldn't be surprised if Goddard poked him in the eye as he was finger pointing. Jake apparently said "this finger pointing is ****ed".

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Are you actually trying to take the high moral ground? I am more than happy with where the Saints are at, Essendon have what they want - high draft picks. Time to move on and rejoice in what your potential picks will bring.

The Saints now are not the same as in the past - current administration and playing group are to be proud of

There are feral fans from all clubs, don't let them take away from discussions where clubs are actually at.

Reckon the best way this trade can be looked at is in a couple of years. The Saints have gone through a list rebuild, now only have to tinker instead of a complete overhaul.

I'm not trying

 

[Verdun]

I'm not trying

Sums it up!

Good luck with your picks and your high moral ground

 

[60sbomber]

LOL no-one was found "innocent".
Not guilty , incsufficient evidence, is not innocent

Actually, it is.
Not guilty = not guilty.
Almost every accused person who is found not guilty is found not guilty because there is insufficient evidence.
Insufficient evidence means there is not enough evidence that they did what they are accused of.
Do you need me to say another way?
They are innocent until proven guilty
Or in WADA world, until some tribunal or judge thinks it/he is comfortably satisfied that something might have happened. And they didn't event get close to establishing that.
Innocent.
As my old maths teacher used to say, pigs is pigs.

 

[60sbomber]

dont quote me, but didnt they find that the drugs were sold to dank, the problem was that they couldnt prove that a) they were what he thought he bought and b) he gave them to the players

record keeping was shonky, therefor cant prove that they took the drugs. i.e. technicality

It was a) above.
They didn't even get to b).
And record keeping wasn't even an issue. The tribunal made comment about it in their judgement, but it didn't even come into consideration in reaching their verdict. As I say, they didn't even get to the stage of considering whether the substance was given to the players.
And lack of records is an absolute red herring.
That line of thinking seems to be that Essendon should have kept detailed records of taking illegal substances so that it would make ASADA's job easier. Essendon were required by AFL rules to keep good records, and the AFL never monitored them or any other club to see they were adhering to those rules. The club was severely punished for bad governance, but no other club was even investigated for their record keeping of supplements.
As far as the immediate (trumped up) case being run by ASADA/WADA, the lack of records is absolutely irrelevant. Essendon could have kept the most meticulous records of all time, recording every injection given to every player, and those records, if Dank had any sense at all, would have shown them to be receiving Thymomodulin not TB4, irrespective of whether it really was Thymodmodulin or TB4. ASADA would have been in the same position, and have had to run the same case, even if there had been meticulous records kept.

 

[toxic]

Nothing in it, just a bit of push and shove. Probably happens at most clubs at some stage. Some of the senior Bomber players confronted him over his work ethics

Cheers

My mail is Jake dropped him - goddard then appeared on foxtel with associated bruising around his eye & cheek

from there Jake's ticket was stamped by the club internally

 

[nineteen eighty]

where? All I've seen is a few moralising commentators who said they think it should happen

Did you say moralising campaigners? Like Maher who I heard on SEN yesterday going on about how AFL footballers shouldn't even be allowed one strike. As soon as you get done, you're kicked out of the comp. I shake my head at blokes like him. I get it if you're done a second and third time that severe penalties need to be applied. On the first though?!

 

[aussierulesrules]

You can imagine that after what happened with Keefe and Thomas at Collingwood this year we'll have come down on Carlisle like a tonne of bricks yesterday and it's looking like it could have cost him a shitload of money, if his contract does in fact get re-written. Even if we just take out the marketing part it could cost him tens of thousands of dollars, if not more.

 

[HighettBomber]

dont quote me, but didnt they find that the drugs were sold to dank, the problem was that they couldnt prove that a) they were what he thought he bought and b) he gave them to the players

record keeping was shonky, therefor cant prove that they took the drugs. i.e. technicality

They couldn't even prove the alleged substance made it into the country, so the case was thrown out there. Hardly a technicality.

 

[King_Steele]

Cheers

My mail is Jake dropped him - goddard then appeared on foxtel with associated bruising around his eye & cheek

from there Jake's ticket was stamped by the club internally

Brendon is a s**t bloke anyway.

Absolute hypocrite.

 

[fishardansin]

Did you say moralising campaigners? Like Maher who I heard on SEN yesterday going on about how AFL footballers shouldn't even be allowed one strike. As soon as you get done, you're kicked out of the comp. I shake my head at blokes like him. I get it if you're done a second and third time that severe penalties need to be applied. On the first though?!

Why should any penalties apply if they're not doing PEDs and present to work in a professional manner when they're required to be there. I don't get it. Do lawyers have the same scrutiny? Do teachers, doctors, emergency workers, ect ect ... If you turn up to work ready to go then people should leave you alone. PEDs are another issue all together because we're talking about forcing other athletes to take them to compete with you.

 

[fishardansin]

You can imagine that after what happened with Keefe and Thomas at Collingwood this year we'll have come down on Carlisle like a tonne of bricks yesterday and it's looking like it could have cost him a shitload of money, if his contract does in fact get re-written. Even if we just take out the marketing part it could cost him tens of thousands of dollars, if not more.

I wonder if he could walk away because of that. An agreement is an agreement. The only way he should accept a sanction like that is if it was in the contract already agreed upon. The marketing component is another thing though. I reckon Jake isn't keen on the spot light now and he's not be a marketable figure now either. I think that made up $50k and that will still leave him with $650k.

Cheers

My mail is Jake dropped him - goddard then appeared on foxtel with associated bruising around his eye & cheek

from there Jake's ticket was stamped by the club internally

Yeah it was known among some Essendon supporters that the leadership group were asked if the club should put an offer to Jake. They said no. I didn't know about this incident though.

 

[cartel]

I wonder if he could walk away because of that. An agreement is an agreement. The only way he should accept a sanction like that is if it was in the contract already agreed upon. The marketing component is another thing though. I reckon Jake isn't keen on the spot light now and he's not be a marketable figure now either. I think that made up $50k and that will still leave him with $650k.

Lol, why would he walk away to go in the draft when after everything that has happened, nobody is going to give him a similar contract?

I think you have a pipe dream of him walking back into the draft and the Bombers re-drafting him, the incident becoming the makings of him and essentially you've gotten pick five for nothing. Not sure it's going to happen like that.

 

[60sbomber]

Lol, why would he walk away to go in the draft when after everything that has happened, nobody is going to give him a similar contract?

I think you have a pipe dream of him walking back into the draft and the Bombers re-drafting him, the incident becoming the makings of him and essentially you've gotten pick five for nothing. Not sure it's going to happen like that.

I think a lawyer would say he had a good case for requiring St. Kilda to honour his original agreed contract.
It would require him to rock the boat at his new club, though, and he probably isn't prepared to do it.
But legally, St. Kilda should honour the contract they offered him to induce him to come to them.
He hasn't breached any contract he has with them, and they have no grounds to renege on it.
It would be the same legally as if he had hurt his knee last week falling down stairs.
Neither he nor his manager nor Essendon were obliged to disclose to St. Kilda anything they might have known.
I understand St. Kilda being sh!tty with that, but legally, they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[cartel]

I think a lawyer would say he had a good case for requiring St. Kilda to honour his original agreed contract.
It would require him to rock the boat at his new club, though, and he probably isn't prepared to do it.
But legally, St. Kilda should honour the contract they offered him to induce him to come to them.
He hasn't breached any contract he has with them, and they have no grounds to renege on it.
It would be the same legally as if he had hurt his knee last week falling down stairs.
Neither he nor his manager nor Essendon were obliged to disclose to St. Kilda anything they might have known.
I understand St. Kilda being sh!tty with that, but legally, they don't have a leg to stand on.

Carlisle wouldn't take it that far. It would be very surprising if he did - he'd be branded as a litigious party boy expecting a big contract elsewhere - again, why would any other club take him on? Doing that would make it difficult for him to continue his career as an AFL player, and he hasn't shown himself to be clever enough to make it big doing many other things.

He will be pissed, even though it will be a relatively small pay cut, but he only has himself to blame.

 

[fishardansin]

Lol, why would he walk away to go in the draft when after everything that has happened, nobody is going to give him a similar contract?

I think you have a pipe dream of him walking back into the draft and the Bombers re-drafting him, the incident becoming the makings of him and essentially you've gotten pick five for nothing. Not sure it's going to happen like that.

It would be funny if he came back to Essendon. However, those bridges are burnt.

I think Carlton would take him with pick one

 

[Donakebab]

Lol, why would he walk away to go in the draft when after everything that has happened, nobody is going to give him a similar contract?

I think you have a pipe dream of him walking back into the draft and the Bombers re-drafting him, the incident becoming the makings of him and essentially you've gotten pick five for nothing. Not sure it's going to happen like that.

He can't walk to the draft. He is contracted now, to walk he needs to be released or he will be deregistered.

 

[fishardansin]

He can't walk to the draft. He is contracted now, to walk he needs to be released or he will be deregistered.

If Saints try and change the contract that is reason for him to void it.

 

[Donakebab]

If Saints try and change the contract that is reason for him to void it.

Not necessarily, we have no idea what clauses are in there. Most likely there is something relating to misconduct, whether that leads to a reduction or restructuring of the deal is another story.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Why should any penalties apply if they're not doing PEDs and present to work in a professional manner when they're required to be there. I don't get it. Do lawyers have the same scrutiny? Do teachers, doctors, emergency workers, ect ect ... If you turn up to work ready to go then people should leave you alone. PEDs are another issue all together because we're talking about forcing other athletes to take them to compete with you.

I'm not one for non PED's being tested at all. I should have chosen my words a little more carefully. I actually find it quite offensive that half the media carry on about illicit drugs when the vast majority of them would have partaken over the years.

Point I was trying to make was that IF there were to be penalties for illicit drug use, then the players can't just be thrown out of the comp after 1 or 2 uses. Yes it's not a good look if players use but if no-one is testing for it, then the players can use to their hearts consent. Performance will dictate whether they continue to get a game.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

Brendon is a s**t bloke anyway.

Absolute hypocrite.

To be fair so is Jake Carlisle.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think a lawyer would say he had a good case for requiring St. Kilda to honour his original agreed contract.
It would require him to rock the boat at his new club, though, and he probably isn't prepared to do it.
But legally, St. Kilda should honour the contract they offered him to induce him to come to them.
He hasn't breached any contract he has with them, and they have no grounds to renege on it.
It would be the same legally as if he had hurt his knee last week falling down stairs.
Neither he nor his manager nor Essendon were obliged to disclose to St. Kilda anything they might have known.
I understand St. Kilda being sh!tty with that, but legally, they don't have a leg to stand on.

If there wasn't some sort of behavioral clause in the contract, then the Saints should sack whoever writes the contracts.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I wonder if he could walk away because of that. An agreement is an agreement. The only way he should accept a sanction like that is if it was in the contract already agreed upon. The marketing component is another thing though. I reckon Jake isn't keen on the spot light now and he's not be a marketable figure now either. I think that made up $50k and that will still leave him with $650k.

Didn't Jake say is his initial media release/statement that he would be willing to cop any penalties St Kilda or the AFL handed out though?

From memory I read there was a marketing component that would be outside the salary cap, but that we wouldn't be able to use him for that now that he's no longer "marketable", so that is the part that would be in the most danger for him.

It was also reported that our offer to him was under $600K PA, not the $700K that was widely reported previously.

 

[WolfLikeMe]

I wonder if he could walk away because of that. An agreement is an agreement. The only way he should accept a sanction like that is if it was in the contract already agreed upon. The marketing component is another thing though. I reckon Jake isn't keen on the spot light now and he's not be a marketable figure now either. I think that made up $50k and that will still leave him with $650k.



Yeah it was known among some Essendon supporters that the leadership group were asked if the club should put an offer to Jake. They said no. I didn't know about this incident though.

How do you know how much jakes is going to get paid or what the break down is in his contract....

 

[fishardansin]

Didn't Jake say is his initial media release/statement that he would be willing to cop any penalties St Kilda or the AFL handed out though?

From memory I read there was a marketing component that would be outside the salary cap, but that we wouldn't be able to use him for that now that he's no longer "marketable", so that is the part that would be in the most danger for him.

It was also reported that our offer to him was under $600K PA, not the $700K that was widely reported previously.

Not under 600k. I'm guessing it's up to 700+ with the marketing.

Yes I think all parties could agree to drop that because he's probably not keen on the public eye right now.

Cancel it for one year and dangle the carrot in front of him with an option to add it back in if criteria is met. Perhaps behavioural clauses plus performance KPIs.

That way you don't touch his actual playing contract which would create a bunch of bitterness. He now has a definable target to regain trust. Everyone wins. You don't have to suspend him at all either which would hurt you guys on field.