News John Barker resigns - Post #447

[Sector 7G]

Having met Barker at a club function when he was caretaker coach, he was very different to what I expected and was fairly intense and not laid back.

Without being in the the inside the club it is impossible to tell who is doing what and how tactics affects the performance of each part of the team.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Oh and for the love of god, teach someone how to rove front and centre.

This shits me so much.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

This shits me so much.

I edited that as Barker is the stoppage coach now so Watson has to work with the small forwards.

I think of some of the brilliant roving small forwards and resting rovers we had had ... Ashman, Marcou, Fraser Murphy, Betts, Garlett ... flash bang goal. Sigh.

We don't have those types now but the art of roving packs is still important. Gallucci was great at this pre recruitment. So was Polson. I wonder if their flair is being blunted.

 

[Arr0w]

Well you did ask which line coaches are outperforming Barker. Personnel aside, we do look to have structure down back.

Our stoppages are a dog's breakfast this year. Clearances down, poor run and spread, incredible amount of fumbling. Some more ball handling drills are a must for many.

Agree with those points, but as I said, how would both Amos and Barker perform if they swapped roles. None of us would know, unless you are in the inner sanctum.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Agree with those points, but as I said, how would both Amos and Barker perform if they swapped roles. None of us would know, unless you are in the inner sanctum.

We don't. When Barker had the defensive role, we were ordinary back there but didn't have the same personnel. Mind you, it's not as though anybody improves on his lines when he has them.

He's not responsible for any resurgence or career saving moves that I can think of.

Thought he was decent in his acting senior role and thought he deserved to stay on under Bolton accordingly. We are nearly 2 years on now. The question is valid.

 

[Arr0w]

We don't. When Barker had the defensive role, we were ordinary back there but didn't have the same personnel. Mind you, it's not as though anybody improves on his lines when he has them.

He's not responsible for any resurgence or career saving moves that I can think of.

Thought he was decent in his acting senior role and thought he deserved to stay on under Bolton accordingly. We are nearly 2 years on now. The question is valid.

Asking the question is valid and so is determining if our forward coach has improved that area, as well as our ruck coach improving Gorringe, Phiilips and Korcheck.

Throwing it up for debate is valid, if it was about the whole group, not just one of them.

If Bolton and the MC have concerns with Barker specifically, over all our other coaches, at this point of our rebuild and lack of talent across the list as a whole, then they should move him on.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Asking the question is valid and so is determining if our forward coach has improved that area, as well as our ruck coach improving Gorringe, Phiilips and Korcheck.

Throwing it up for debate is valid, if it was about the whole group, not just one of them.

If Bolton and the MC have concerns with Barker specifically, over all our other coaches, at this point of our rebuild and lack of talent across the list as a whole, then they should move him on.

Barker has been around the longest so we have more of a sample.

Mind you I've never been a fan of Capuano either.

Warnock and Hampson went backwards under his tutelage and all the others but Kreuzer are not AFL standard IMO.

 

[Arr0w]

Barker has been around the longest so we have more of a sample.

Mind you I've never been a fan of Capuano either.

Warnock and Hampson went backwards under his tutelage and all the others but Kreuzer are not AFL standard IMO.

And that was my point originally. You would have to concede that Amos has more talent and depth to work with, than what Barker does through the midfield.

Anyway, sure we will all know the outcome, come the end of the year

 

[Juddernaut08]

Would you consider that the calibre of players in the backline are better than other parts of the ground? I wonder how Amos and Barker would go if they swapped roles

If we had a top 8 side in terms of talent and Barker's area was the worst performing group, then the criticism could be justified, until then I feel it is harsh to single out Barker, especially with most of us not being in the inner sanctum

Arr0w, we have been out-strategised at stoppages all year. Part of this has been because of the spare backman policy we ran with, but still we were so overly reliant on Crippa.

Now that Cripps and Curnow have gone down, we have been OUTCLASSED in the midfield by...Brisbane

 

[Arr0w]

Arr0w, we have been out-strategised at stoppages all year. Part of this has been because of the spare backman policy we ran with, but still we were so overly reliant on Crippa.

Now that Cripps and Curnow have gone down, we have been OUTCLASSED in the midfield by...Brisbane

I understand your frustration mate, I share similar concerns, but as you have stated, we play a +1 defensively and missing 2 vital midfield cogs. Surely the lack of talent, depth in the midfield is not Barker's fault. If the Lions were missing Beams and Rockliff and we had Cripps and Ed (4 player difference), the outcome would have been different.

Another important fact is that Bolton is the one that sets the agenda in consultation and discussions with the whole football department as to the criteria of each area. Unless we are in the inner sanctum, we have no idea if Barker is meeting or failing this criteria. If Barker is retained beyond this year, surely that would be a glowing endorsement as to his capabilities.

None of our line coaches should be judged by us, without an understanding as to the standard required

 

[Franc de Borges]

From the pics I've seen the Suns don't need a 'line' coach.

 

[Jesse Deluxe]

I dunno, tough gig being our stoppages coach when the midfield is arguably our weakest area on the ground.

In any event it doesn't really matter. Just finished his level 4 coaching degree or whatever so I imagine he'll be gone whenever a senior coaching vacancy pops up somewhere.

Will definitely bring a winning kulcha with him at his new head coach position.

#nochancetogetagig

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Arr0w, we have been out-strategised at stoppages all year. Part of this has been because of the spare backman policy we ran with, but still we were so overly reliant on Crippa.

Now that Cripps and Curnow have gone down, we have been OUTCLASSED in the midfield by...Brisbane

I was at Saturday nights game and the biggest thing that stood out to me was how under-strengthed we were versus Geelong. This was why we didn't win any clearances because we were just pushed aside.

Similar story down back. We need some 'bulk' into the team next year.

 

[Jabba73]

I was at Saturday nights game and the biggest thing that stood out to me was how under-strengthed we were versus Geelong. This was why we didn't win any clearances because we were just pushed aside.

Similar story down back. We need some 'bulk' into the team next year.

Need to get a lot bigger and fitter, whatever it takes

 

[Jimmae]

Interesting thread Juddernaut08

My question would be, which of our other line coaches would you consider to be outperforming Barker and why?

Watson must be a genius to prevent Charlie, SOS and Wright from chucking a spare every week.

Agree with those points, but as I said, how would both Amos and Barker perform if they swapped roles. None of us would know, unless you are in the inner sanctum.

He's had this trend follow him at two clubs and in every line he's taken over. Even if he's some sort of master tactician and senior coach in waiting, he's either not towing the line with the overall coaching group, or he's not able to communicate his message clearly enough to the players.

The alternative is that he's dumber than a bag of hammers and has no depth and complexity to his tactics.

If he's running around making suggestions for the other line coaches while his own line suffers, he can honestly * off. He has a salary and a mandate and he should stick to it as much as his peers.

 

[katmanblue]

Does that mean we can call him the Ring?

Which becomes Ring of Fire after a curry.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

Barks has the reverse Midas as a line coach and presided over our all-time losing margin as interim. Seems like a lovely bloke and all but he's a monument to a Carlton era of ineffective nice blokes. The GC rumour, if true, is a win for both John and the club.

Can we trade him for Saad?

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

Watson must be a genius to prevent Charlie, SOS and Wright from chucking a spare every week.


He's had this trend follow him at two clubs and in every line he's taken over. Even if he's some sort of master tactician and senior coach in waiting, he's either not towing the line with the overall coaching group, or he's not able to communicate his message clearly enough to the players.

The alternative is that he's dumber than a bag of hammers and has no depth and complexity to his tactics.

If he's running around making suggestions for the other line coaches while his own line suffers, he can honestly **** off. He has a salary and a mandate and he should stick to it as much as his peers.

As outsiders, we can clearly see the skill or lack there of, of players over the course of their careers, but as for assistant coaches, how would anyone of us here know if these employees are performing to the level expected of them.

At the end of his playing career at Hawthorn, he was offered a position as a forward coach at St.Kilda for the 07-08 sessions. He was then offered to go back to Hawthorn as a forward coach for the 09-10 seasons and has been with us since 2011.

I am not suggesting he is a bad coach or a good one, as I have no idea, I don't employ him, nor work with him

I would be really interested to know how you or anyone here could appraise his performance in his role, without ANY knowledge of the inner sanctum

 

[Gingerbread man]

Seems like regardless of his performance as a line coach, he is rewarded...was even in contention for our senior gig at one stage?

My perception is that every club and every position he touches gets worse. Is this an unfair assessment?

If you have evidence to the contrary please speak up.

I want him gone for good.

Edit:

You want proof? I havent kept records for him, but what stands out is:

Forwardline coach at hawks: terrible
He leaves: suddenly great

Forwardline coach at blues: terrible

I guess he appears to be a serviceable overall coach (did ok as interim) so big picture motivation i guess hes ok.

Other than that, more knowledgeable people than me would know...which line coach role has he done well in?

Barker works under the directive of Bolton you would think, so surely Bolton must take responsibility for carrying such a bad line coach OR Bolton and the whole coaching group have a plan to progress our very young group as we rebuild. Either way it's not something that the normal punter would know unless your involved with the club.

I am disappointed to find this thread on our board and feel dumber for commenting on it.

 

[Shambolic]

Need to get a lot bigger and fitter, whatever it takes

Essendon board?

 

[Juddernaut08]

Barker works under the directive of Bolton you would think, so surely Bolton must take responsibility for carrying such a bad line coach OR Bolton and the whole coaching group have a plan to progress our very young group as we rebuild. Either way it's not something that the normal punter would know unless your involved with the club.

I am disappointed to find this thread on our board and feel dumber for commenting on it.

One reason why its not as simple as "bolton is to blame" is because if the players like him and hes been around and loyal for so long, you cant just wield the axe after one year as senior coach.

After two though, if hes still not getting results?? We are a football club not a charity.

 

[Gingerbread man]

One reason why its not as simple as "bolton is to blame" is because if the players like him and hes been around and loyal for so long, you cant just wield the axe after one year as senior coach.

After two though, if hes still not getting results?? We are a football club not a charity.

I would be more disappointed in Bolton and the board if that is the case.

 

[Wickzki]

I will say this much for John...

In an era where there wasn't too much to smile about at the club the players absolutely love him and his peers very much respect him. That in itself doesn't make him a good coach, nor does it make him a poor one, but that type of loyalty and respect isn't generally handed out.. Therefore, if nothing else, as an outsider it makes me appreciate him that much more even if I too have been guilty of criticizing his lines' performances.

To be fair to him, however, he has often been pushed about to the areas of the ground that we have oft critiqued as being our least talented part of the ground. This in itself lines him up as being a soft target. Simultaneously, given how strong the rest of the new regime is I do not see the club holding onto a coach who they don't think is up to stuff.

One thing that stands out in my mind, it's that in 2011 we had our most dangerous and function forward line in recent memory. 3 players kicking 50 goals etc.

2012 John Barker takes over as forward coach, and the whole thing was just dysfunctional.

I don't want to pick on you specifically but this is an example that I think makes sense. For all intents and purposes we should have had a dysfunctional forward line in 2012.

Key forwards that year were Jarrad Waite and Lachie Henderson.

Jarrad Waite played 11 games. Lachie Henderson played 11 games. They both missed games in the middle of the season then Henderson was out for the year after round 16. Waite missed from round 8-18. They were rarely in the same team.

Other key components of forward play including midfielders that missed games that year included Simpson 3, Murphy 6, Robbo 6, Judd 5, Yarran 4, McLean 7, Walker 7.

Our midfield and forward line were screwed in 2012 due to the statistically proven worst injury crisis in AFL history. Our best 22 missed a combined 145 games. Our key backups missed 135. All due to injury and the vast majority of that coming after round 4. Nobody was complaining when we were on fire until the injuries hit.

In the first three rounds of 2012, we kicked 18 goals (round 1 Vs Richmond), 23 goals (round 2 Vs Brisbane) and 18 goals (round 3 Vs Collingwood who'd been damn near unbeatable the previous 2 years and had the best defense in 2010 and second best in 2011).

Putting that on Barker is unfair.

 

[I bleed Blue]

As outsiders, we can clearly see the skill or lack there of, of players over the course of their careers, but as for assistant coaches, how would anyone of us here know if these employees are performing to the level expected of them.

At the end of his playing career at Hawthorn, he was offered a position as a forward coach at St.Kilda for the 07-08 sessions. He was then offered to go back to Hawthorn as a forward coach for the 09-10 seasons and has been with us since 2011.

I am not suggesting he is a bad coach or a good one, as I have no idea, I don't employ him, nor work with him

I would be really interested to know how you or anyone here could appraise his performance in his role, without ANY knowledge of the inner sanctum

I think it is fair to comment on his performance from the limited exposure we have. If we can comment on the head coach on account of how the team is performing, then we can comment on line coaches in regards to how their 'line' is performing.

That is what this forum is for. If we can discuss the players, head coach, CEO, the board of directors etc... And we aren't in the inner sanctum for any of that.

We can only comment on what we see, feel and perceive.

Barker has been with the club for 6 years now, in a number of different roles. Fair enough for supporters to form views and comment on what they see.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Barker has been at the Blues for quite a period so I understand people questioning his worth. Everyone has to face the music similar to the players.

In my mind, i'm not sure whether he is good or bad. The talent brought in by Hughes and Rogers was soo bad that no one could shine be it a fwd coach or backs coach during that period. Add to that the Malthouse era of poor tactical nous. And then add to that Barker was an assistant and has to conform to the game plan of the head coach...whether he agrees or not.

Also, I'm not sure how anyone can judge given we had no fwd talls of quality during the last 7/8 years.

The one aspect that I think he could have done is be a bit more revolutionary with the 3 amigos. We had no decent talls but we had three decent smalls. Barker could have implemented something a bit better than allow the defence and midfield to kick it high giving our best fwds (our smalls) no chance at all.

Every time the ball came bouncing in along the ground, Betts and Garlett were a good chance to win it more often than not. So developing something around delivery inside 50 that suited those smalls would have been nice. Even P Roos recently suggested in a game that it would be better if the mids kicked it inside 50 along the ground. Not the craziest of ideas.

Still, previously, M Robinson, Curnow, Murphy, Graham, Bell etc were butchers of the ball going inside 50 making the best laid plans look stupid.